Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[Ingledsva]

Us, Us ? how many of you are there ?

I doubt most people know (for sure) much about why homosexuals are homosexuals. My sexuality is totally consistent with my body type and my genetic makeup, I didn't choose to be born a male., The issue is not why most of the population are consistent with their gender.and genetic make up, the issue is why does someone born with the physical type and genetic makeup of a particular gender act sexually inconsistent with their gender. To clearly answer your question. No, I did not choose my sexuality I was born a male and my sexuality is that of a male

This kind of reply is so bogus.

We have female babies born with penises, and male babies born without - and with female parts, and babies born with both penis and vagina, or womb.

They have found when they try to assign which gender they actually belong to - they have psychological problems because they are actually the other.

This PROVES that people can be BORN anywhere on the spectrum.

And homosexuality in the animal kingdom also proves this is natural and normal.

And of course we also have critters that start out one sex - and change to the other as needed for procreation.

This idea that the biblical idea of male & female is all that is, - is absolute BULL, as we can see in nature.

Also - as posted earlier - scientists now think homosexuals and homosexual activity actually enhanced early people's chances for survival, just as they do today in other animal groups.

*

 

[shmogie]

This kind of reply is so bogus.

We have female babies born with penises, and male babies born without - and with female parts, and babies born with both penis and vagina, or womb.

They have found when they try to assign which gender they actually belong to - they have psychological problems because they are actually the other.

This PROVES that people can be BORN anywhere on the spectrum.

And homosexuality in the animal kingdom also proves this is natural and normal.

And of course we also have critters that start out one sex - and change to the other as needed for procreation.

This idea that the biblical idea of male & female is all that is, - is absolute BULL, as we can see in nature.

Also - as posted earlier - scientists now think homosexuals and homosexual activity actually enhanced early people's chances for survival, just as they do today in other animal groups.

*

As you would say, dear lady, BULL

 

[shmogie]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/19/h...st-apologizes-for-study-on-gay-cure.html?_r=1

Well, if his methods were wrong, he should apologize to everyone. A person who recants, or selected voices in a sea of many, does not equate with proof beyond a reasonable doubt

 

[shmogie]

This kind of reply is so bogus.

We have female babies born with penises, and male babies born without - and with female parts, and babies born with both penis and vagina, or womb.

They have found when they try to assign which gender they actually belong to - they have psychological problems because they are actually the other.

This PROVES that people can be BORN anywhere on the spectrum.

And homosexuality in the animal kingdom also proves this is natural and normal.

And of course we also have critters that start out one sex - and change to the other as needed for procreation.

This idea that the biblical idea of male & female is all that is, - is absolute BULL, as we can see in nature.

Also - as posted earlier - scientists now think homosexuals and homosexual activity actually enhanced early people's chances for survival, just as they do today in other animal groups.

*

Think, is not proof. Yes some people are born with no specific body type of a gender. A baby born clearly as a female, with the genetic makeup of a female, with no physical confusion, is a female, The parents fully expect the child to behave sexually as a female, who is attracted to a male, and their expectation is right more than 95% of the time. So, why not in 100% of the time ? Animals that transmute sexually are genetically programmed to do so, you and I are not, at least, no gene has been found that would account for it

 

[Ingledsva]

As you would say, dear lady, BULL

Everything I stated there is documented scientific FACT.

Would you care to expound on why you are calling it "bull?"

*

 

[shmogie]

I know the APA's position. They do not believe homosexuality is a disorder or a chosen sexual orientation, they have condemned reparative therapy and have strongly urged clinicians to not use at is causes further damage, and they hold the positions that people who are homosexual should be accepted as regular members of society and not discriminated against because discrimination leads to further problems.
AGAIN, you are treading into my field of study (next step is my masters degree). When you invoke the APA thinking their positions backup yours, I know, for a fact, without even having to look it up, that you are wrong.
http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/orientation.aspx


http://psc.dss.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/HTML/resolution97.html

Yes, they believe................................ Belief is not proof. I believe otherwise, my belief is not proof. They clearly state that they do not know why homosexuality exists in humans, they have some evidence to believe, maybe a lot. I will find and post the statement for you, Who am I to quibble with their view on therapy, for anyone ? I never said their position "backs up mine" I stated that they say it is a very complicated issue, that could have environmental factors, genetic factors, or a myriad of combinations of both. They state that they do not know exactly why homosexuality exists in humans. As to their view of the rights of homosexuals, I agree, and never have disagreed. They have every right granted to them under the Constitution, their rights cannot significantly impact on the rights of another

 

[shmogie]

Everything I stated there is documented scientific FACT.

Would you care to expound on why you are calling it "bull?"

*

You keep alluding to scientific fact, that is not scientific fact. Please tell me what the irrefutable scientific fact is that identifies exactly why people born of one gender or another grow up to be homosexuals

 

[Ingledsva]

Think, is not proof. Yes some people are born with no specific body type of a gender. A baby born clearly as a female, with the genetic makeup of a female, with no physical confusion, is a female, The parents fully expect the child to behave sexually as a female, who is attracted to a male, and their expectation is right more than 95% of the time. So, why not in 100% of the time ? Animals that transmute sexually are genetically programmed to do so, you and I are not, at least, no gene has been found that would account for it

BULL! A baby can be born looking fully female with female sex parts - and actually be a male, or somewhere in-between.

We have Bi people that are obviously in the middle.

The animals (which include us) show that such differentiation is normal and natural.

If YOU believe God created only strictly male and female humans and animals as in the Genesis account, - this real life proves such FALSE!

And they are actually looking for a gene on the X right now. The idea being that a gene on the X has evolved that makes women more attracted to men - thus more fruitful when that X is passed to these women, (studies have already shown that women in families with near homosexual relatives, have more children then the average,) but when that same X is passed to a male as part of his XY - he has the same reaction to other males = homosexuality.

*

 

[shmogie]

Yes, they believe................................ Belief is not proof. I believe otherwise, my belief is not proof. They clearly state that they do not know why homosexuality exists in humans, they have some evidence to believe, maybe a lot. I will find and post the statement for you, Who am I to quibble with their view on therapy, for anyone ? I never said their position "backs up mine" I stated that they say it is a very complicated issue, that could have environmental factors, genetic factors, or a myriad of combinations of both. They state that they do not know exactly why homosexuality exists in humans. As to their view of the rights of homosexuals, I agree, and never have disagreed. They have every right granted to them under the Constitution, their rights cannot significantly impact on the rights of another

Please go to the site called "the Center for Genetic Wholeness", I don't cut and paste. This is a homosexual support site. They HONESTLY address the issue and the APA position

 

[Ingledsva]

You keep alluding to scientific fact, that is not scientific fact. Please tell me what the irrefutable scientific fact is that identifies exactly why people born of one gender or another grow up to be homosexuals

I suggest you go back up and reread that! And the whole thread for the full information.

EVERYTHING said there has been linked to the scientific articles - in past posts here in this thread.

None of it came out of the wind.

*

 

[shmogie]

BULL! A baby can be born looking fully female with female sex parts - and actually be a male, or somewhere in-between.

We have Bi people that are obviously in the middle.

The animals (which include us) show that such differentiation is normal and natural.

If YOU believe God created only strictly male and female humans and animals as in the Genesis account, - this real life proves such FALSE!

And they are actually looking for a gene on the X right now. The idea being that a gene on the X has evolved that makes women more attracted to men - thus more fruitful when that X is passed to these women, (studies have already shown that women in families with near homosexual relatives, have more children then the average,) but when that same X is passed to a male as part of his XY - he has the same reaction to other males = homosexuality.

*

No, a person born genetically and physically a male, cannot "actually be a female", or somewhere in between.They are the gender they were born to be.If they THINK or FEEL they are something different, that is coming for some reason from their brain. Unfortunately for your position, they are LOOKING for the gene. That doesn.t mean it exists

 

[shmogie]

I suggest you go back up and reread that! And the whole thread for the full information.

EVERYTHING said there has been linked to the scientific articles - in past posts here in this thread.

None of it came out of the wind.

*

Any idea that the reason for homosexuality in humans has been identified beyond any reasonable doubt, blew right into my computer by the wind

 

[Ingledsva]

No, a person born genetically and physically a male, cannot "actually be a female", or somewhere in between.They are the gender they were born to be.If they THINK or FEEL they are something different, that is coming for some reason from their brain. Unfortunately for your position, they are LOOKING for the gene. That doesn.t mean it exists

LOL! You had better go to page one and read this thread all the way through - for there are all kinds of scientific articles - linked - and you need to read them.

"Humans are born with 46 chromosomes in 23 pairs. The X and Y chromosomes determine a person’s sex. Most women are 46XX and most men are 46XY. Research suggests, however, that in a few births per thousand some individuals will be born with a single sex chromosome (45X or 45Y) (sex monosomies) and some with three or more sex chromosomes (47XXX, 47XYY or 47XXY, etc.) (sex polysomies). In addition, some males are born 46XX due to the translocation of a tiny section of the sex determining region of the Y chromosome. Similarly some females are also born 46XY due to mutations in the Y chromosome. Clearly, there are not only females who are XX and males who are XY, but rather, there is a range of chromosome complements, hormone balances, and phenotypic variations that determine sex." http://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html

*

 

[shmogie]

LOL! You had better go to page one and read this thread all the way through - for there are all kinds of scientific articles - linked - and you need to read them.

"Humans are born with 46 chromosomes in 23 pairs. The X and Y chromosomes determine a person’s sex. Most women are 46XX and most men are 46XY. Research suggests, however, that in a few births per thousand some individuals will be born with a single sex chromosome (45X or 45Y) (sex monosomies) and some with three or more sex chromosomes (47XXX, 47XYY or 47XXY, etc.) (sex polysomies). In addition, some males are born 46XX due to the translocation of a tiny section of the sex determining region of the Y chromosome. Similarly some females are also born 46XY due to mutations in the Y chromosome. Clearly, there are not only females who are XX and males who are XY, but rather, there is a range of chromosome complements, hormone balances, and phenotypic variations that determine sex." http://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html

*

So, first research SUGGESTS, is that the same as has proven ? So, do these genetic variances inevitably lead to homosexuality ? Does any one of them ? If not, then one possible cause has been found, but there must be other causes, because these don't automatically cause homosexuality, and people without these variances become become homosexuals. No cigar

 

[shmogie]

Except this "consistency" doesn't exist. There are simply way too many examples to the contrary.

5 to 8 percent of the population. Over 90% of the population are heterosexuals, seems pretty consistent to me

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes, they believe................................ Belief is not proof.

No, they have a mountain of statistical data and evidence to know. Belief is not required. You say it's easy for sexual orientation, this is your belief, but my position is that you shouldn't try to change it - more like it's not even something that should be considered and we should be so accepting of homosexuals that such an idea would be comparable to eugenics - and I don't have to believe this because I know it because I have read a ton of studies, both for an against. But it's really hard to support the anti-gay crowd when so many of them feel shameful and resentful living that life, when so many of their leaders are outed in a humiliating - and oft times illegal - manner, and when the data shows, across a myriad of studies, that efforts to change it can have serious consequences and cause irreparable harm, that it shouldn't even be suggested that a clinician not ever suggest changing it, and that if you just let them live their lives they are perfectly fine and happy.

They clearly state that they do not know why homosexuality exists in humans, they have some evidence to believe, maybe a lot. I will find and post the statement for you,

Yes, I know, but they also say it's not a choice.

As to their view of the rights of homosexuals, I agree, and never have disagreed. They have every right granted to them under the Constitution, their rights cannot significantly impact on the rights of another

It's not just rights, it's hatred. When you won't even associate with someone, you don't have a good opinion of them - in this case your opinion is of an entire group that isn't harming you, and would even barely exist as a community if people weren't so against it.

5 to 8 percent of the population. Over 90% of the population are heterosexuals, seems pretty consistent to me

It's probably closer to 20% when you consider those still in the closet. But, clearly, it is still very normal for someone to have same-sex attractions. It happens a lot. Even where I am, where many people are often afraid to come out and there is pressure to stay in, a very conservative area where there are no active "alternative" lifestyles, even here we have lots of homosexuals. And because people are attracted to so many different things, there really is no normal, especially when it is easily proven that though we have a biological drive for sexual attractions, what we consider sexual is determined by our culture. We think breasts are very sexual, many places see them as nothing more than feeding organs for their young.

 

[Ingledsva]

So, first research SUGGESTS, is that the same as has proven ? So, do these genetic variances inevitably lead to homosexuality ? Does any one of them ? If not, then one possible cause has been found, but there must be other causes, because these don't automatically cause homosexuality, and people without these variances become become homosexuals. No cigar

LOL! You obviously didn't check out and read the link.

You seem to have missed that people are born with genes and bodies that are all over the spectrum, - thus as is their gender identification, - and whom they are sexually attracted to.

"Typical sexual development is the result of numerous genes, and mutation in any of these genes can result in partial or complete failure of sex differentiation. These include mutations or structural anomalies of the SRY region on the Y chromosome resulting in XY gonadal dysgenesis, XX males, or XY females; defects of androgen biosynthesis or androgen receptors, and others."

"Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS) is an X-linked recessive disorder in which affected individuals have external female genitalia and breast development despite being genetically male (46XY). "

"The Intersex Initiative, a North-American based organization, estimates that one in 2,000 children, or five children per day in the United States, are born visibly intersex. (36)"

"The issue of sexual classification, however, is complicated by factors such as chromosomal complement, external genitalia, gender identification and surgical alteration."

*

 

[sojourner]

No, a person born genetically and physically a male, cannot "actually be a female", or somewhere in between.They are the gender they were born to be.If they THINK or FEEL they are something different, that is coming for some reason from their brain. Unfortunately for your position, they are LOOKING for the gene. That doesn.t mean it exists

Some females are born with a penis, yet are genetically female.

 

[shmogie]

No, they have a mountain of statistical data and evidence to know. Belief is not required. You say it's easy for sexual orientation, this is your belief, but my position is that you shouldn't try to change it - more like it's not even something that should be considered and we should be so accepting of homosexuals that such an idea would be comparable to eugenics - and I don't have to believe this because I know it because I have read a ton of studies, both for an against. But it's really hard to support the anti-gay crowd when so many of them feel shameful and resentful living that life, when so many of their leaders are outed in a humiliating - and oft times illegal - manner, and when the data shows, across a myriad of studies, that efforts to change it can have serious consequences and cause irreparable harm, that it shouldn't even be suggested that a clinician not ever suggest changing it, and that if you just let them live their lives they are perfectly fine and happy.

Yes, I know, but they also say it's not a choice.

It's not just rights, it's hatred. When you won't even associate with someone, you don't have a good opinion of them - in this case your opinion is of an entire group that isn't harming you, and would even barely exist as a community if people weren't so against it.

It's probably closer to 20% when you consider those still in the closet. But, clearly, it is still very normal for someone to have same-sex attractions. It happens a lot. Even where I am, where many people are often afraid to come out and there is pressure to stay in, a very conservative area where there are no active "alternative" lifestyles, even here we have lots of homosexuals. And because people are attracted to so many different things, there really is no normal, especially when it is easily proven that though we have a biological drive for sexual attractions, what we consider sexual is determined by our culture. We think breasts are very sexual, many places see them as nothing more than feeding organs for their young.

I don't hate anyone, except perhaps the current POTUS, and it's not because he is black and Donald Trump. You have evidence that sustains your beliefs. Fine. Your commentary on social issues, though interesting and sad, really had no direct bearing on me in my work or now that I am retired. I have stated as clearly as I possibly can that I believe in totally equal treatment for every person, under the law. There are cruel, and yes evil people out there. Your mission is to convince them that homosexuality is, essentially, a perfectly normal third gender. Mine is to convince them that God loves and cherishes every person on earth, every one with no exception. However, he said to his followers that they had to pick up their cross and follow him. He also said HE would make their cross easy to bear. I know no homosexuals, I am acquainted with a couple who are much younger than me, we have nothing in common. Do you propose that I go to their homes, and listen to their music, which I hate ( I listen to classic rock), or go clubbing with them ?. I don't go out seeking homosexuals to associate with, or anybody else. I don't have opinions of large groups of people, I have opinions of people based upon personal interaction

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't hate anyone

A willful non-association is hate.

I have stated as clearly as I possibly can that I believe in totally equal treatment for every person, under the law.

But your prejudiced ways on non-association leads to unequal treatment and a legal status that is not equal.

Your mission is to convince them that homosexuality is, essentially, a perfectly normal third gender.

No. Not once have I brought up gender. Homosexuality is a perfectly normal sexual orientation, and I just gave you a few of the snow flakes that are the upper-most layer of snow that sits on top of the ice berg.

I know no homosexuals

You have known them, but for whatever reason (such as how people typically don't "fly" their sexuality or bring it up all the time), you didn't know.

Do you propose that I go to their homes, and listen to their music, which I hate ( I listen to classic rock),

"Their music?" What, of what?, is "their music?" You like classic rock - Freddie Mercury and Rob Halford are gay. I've known gay people who love hard rock and heavy metal just as much as I do. Sure, some listen to soulless and talentless music that makes me want to cleanse the air the St. Hendrix, but their tastes in music tends to be just as varied as any other person.
And I'm not saying going to your homes, I saying get over your prejudice enough to cease your "I won't associate with them and they can't be my best friend." That's it.