Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[shmogie]

A willful non-association is hate.

But your prejudiced ways on non-association leads to unequal treatment and a legal status that is not equal.

No. Not once have I brought up gender. Homosexuality is a perfectly normal sexual orientation, and I just gave you a few of the snow flakes that are the upper-most layer of snow that sits on top of the ice berg.

You have known them, but for whatever reason (such as how people typically don't "fly" their sexuality or bring it up all the time), you didn't know.

"Their music?" What, of what?, is "their music?" You like classic rock - Freddie Mercury and Rob Halford are gay. I've known gay people who love hard rock and heavy metal just as much as I do. Sure, some listen to soulless and talentless music that makes me want to cleanse the air the St. Hendrix, but their tastes in music tends to be just as varied as any other person.
And I'm not saying going to your homes, I saying get over your prejudice enough to cease your "I won't associate with them and they can't be my best friend." That's it.

I was just making the point that younger people do and maybe think differently than older people, it was metaphorical, not to be taken literally. I have no doubt I have known homosexuals, and I didn't know, because like ladies and gentlemen they didn't make an issue of their sex lives, any more than I do. Get over the prejudice thing, because I don't seek them out, doesn't mean I am prejudiced, it means, like you, I am living my life as I choose. The bigger issue is, have I ever discriminated against them, the answer is no. Once again, as is clearly apparent in your response, you want me to THINK and BELIEVE as you do, actions and non actions are irrelevent, anyone who does not THINK as you is de facto prejudiced and discriminatory, the enemy. This is typical of many oppressive movements that have existed through history, nazi's, the kkk, oppressive communist regimes, and the gaystopo. Your evidence fails, your ignorant distortion and accusations fail, your demand for conformity fails,your demand for thought control fails,like Don Quixote, at least in my case, you have manufactured a bogus narrative. Go find a windmill to charge, and pretend it is whatever you choose

 

[shmogie]

Why do you think that statement is factually wrong? It's the most obvious thing in the world to me.

This is why I keep asking you when you consciously chose your sexual orientation. I'm trying to illuminate the obvious. Get it?

We had a discussion re someone seeing a pink unicorn, and being wrong, because they do not exist. On the 26th of this month in Maidera county, California, the Highway Patrol spent a number of hours chasing a pink unicorn in and out of traffic, hundreds saw it. When finally captured, it turned out to be a pony colored pink, with a horn stuck on, that escaped from a child,s party, nevertheless, the cops identified it as a unicorn on their radio's, it is what they saw

 

[SkepticThinker]

Call out as much as you want, if it makes you feel better, I have been "called out" by some real masters of the craft, though not on this issue, I stand unbowed. I never said anything about gay marriages, but now I will since you brought it up. No doubt new fires will be lit, and will rage. I was against homosexual marriage, not because of my Biblical beliefs, but because I respect the language, and tradition. Marriage has always been defined as a union between a man and woman in the US. I know of no exception to this in all the countries that are represented in the Ancestry of American citizens. So to say marriage is now arbitrarily something else is more bastardization of the language. I did strongly support civil union, with all the rights, and responsibilities of marriage. Absolutely no difference. Thus the integrity of the language is maintained and all are protected. Of course, the matter is moot now since the Supremes weighed in. Legally I think they were wrong, because marriage is clearly a states rights issue according to the Constitution, and no where in the same document is marriage affirmed as a right. However, I don't expect them to consider my legal opinion.


Dear lady, you have posed no questions that I choose to answer. I try to avoid semi hysterical, crude people

If there's absolutely no difference, then why insist in calling it something else? I've never understood that argument.
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, why not just call it a duck?

Also to leave it as a states' rights issue is a strange idea to me. Wouldn't it mean that two people can be married in Ohio but then when they go Texas, all of a sudden they aren't married anymore? That sounds pretty silly and confusing to me.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I have directed you to the American psychological Association. Please read their statement on the matter.

I actually provided you with their statement on the matter. It stated the opposite of what you are saying.

If you need more evidence, and cannot find it, I will direct you, although it is easy to find, if you look.

The evidence I find is again, not what you are finding. So maybe you could provide what it is you keep citing.

Are you a psychologist, psychiatrist,physician or biologist ? If so, I am amazed you are so emphatic in your beliefs. If not, I prefer the balanced approach of professionals in the field, Jesus was very clear in telling his followers to present the Gospel to everyone, but if they choose not accept it, the Disciples were to move on. He made it clear that the reason for mingling with any and every person had a specific purpose, to convert them to Christianity, to share with them the good news of the Gospel, the forgiveness of sin, the concept of salvation. He didn't just hang out with the dregs of society to play darts with them or to drink beer with them. He accepted all people, but he required acceptance of him, those that did not, he left to continue seeking out people with whom to share his message. I have pointed out that there is no restriction on me re "associating" with homosexuals who are outside the faith. I have also said that I do not seek them out, nor have I known any that I wanted to associate with. Christ never closes the door to anyone, his Grace is always available to those who seek it

Jesus was not a professional in the field of psychiatry or psychology.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Us, Us ? how many of you are there ?

What? Where did I say "us?"

I doubt most people know (for sure) much about why homosexuals are homosexuals.

Most people who have thought about it logically for a few minutes (as I’ve been trying to get you to do) will realize it’s a result of the same combination of things that make a person heterosexual – epigenetics, hormonal development, prenatal environment, birth order, genetics, etc.

My sexuality is totally consistent with my body type and my genetic makeup,

You keep saying this like it means something. Your sexuality is consistent with your genetic makeup? What does that mean?

I didn't choose to be born a male.,

And people don’t choose to be born female, or left-handed, or green-eyed, or homosexual.

The issue is not why most of the population are consistent with their gender.and genetic make up, the issue is why does someone born with the physical type and genetic makeup of a particular gender act sexually inconsistent with their gender. To clearly answer your question. No, I did not choose my sexuality I was born a male and my sexuality is that of a male

What does it mean to “act sexually inconsistent with their gender?” Because again, we’re not talking about ACTIONS we are talking about feelings, needs and desires (i.e. sexual orientation). Are heterosexual couples that engage in anal sex “acting sexually inconsistent with their gender?” How are you making these determinations and what are your credentials for doing so?

 

[SkepticThinker]

This kind of reply is so bogus.

We have female babies born with penises, and male babies born without - and with female parts, and babies born with both penis and vagina, or womb.

They have found when they try to assign which gender they actually belong to - they have psychological problems because they are actually the other.

This PROVES that people can be BORN anywhere on the spectrum.

And homosexuality in the animal kingdom also proves this is natural and normal.

And of course we also have critters that start out one sex - and change to the other as needed for procreation.

This idea that the biblical idea of male & female is all that is, - is absolute BULL, as we can see in nature.

Also - as posted earlier - scientists now think homosexuals and homosexual activity actually enhanced early people's chances for survival, just as they do today in other animal groups.

*

Exactly. What we've learned about sexuality since Biblical times is that it's much more diverse and not nearly as black and white as we once thought (or that people want it to be). Just look at the Kinsey studies, for starters.

 

[SkepticThinker]

As you would say, dear lady, BULL

What's bull about it?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The bigger issue is, have I ever discriminated against them, the answer is no.

You stated you won't associate with them and that they can't be your best friend. That is discrimination. It's not a matter of seeking them out, but being cool with it if they are. From what you have said, you are not.

Once again, as is clearly apparent in your response, you want me to THINK and BELIEVE as you do, actions and non actions are irrelevent, anyone who does not THINK as you is de facto prejudiced and discriminatory, the enemy.

Yes, given the choice, I would push "the button" and eradicate behaviors such as yours. A policy of refusal to associate shouldn't exist. Dismissing mountains of evidence in exchange for beliefs that contradict the evidence, they should be extinguished.

This is typical of many oppressive movements that have existed through history, nazi's, the kkk, oppressive communist regimes, and the gaystopo.

Calling out bigotry and demanding equal rights does not, at all, in any way, reflect Nazi, Klan, or Stalinist ideology. "Gaystopo" is just rude and insulting.

Your evidence fails,

So even though I just dumped on a ton of studies, it fails, even though you have provided none?

your ignorant distortion and accusations fail,

I have distorted nothing. I have shown the studies and organizations whose views reflect mine. You are the one who is trying to say something that is potentially very harmful can be good.

 

[SkepticThinker]

No, a person born genetically and physically a male, cannot "actually be a female", or somewhere in between.They are the gender they were born to be.If they THINK or FEEL they are something different, that is coming for some reason from their brain. Unfortunately for your position, they are LOOKING for the gene. That doesn.t mean it exists

If, as you say, the person is "born genetically and physically a male" but their brain says differently, then they are not "born genetically and physically a male."

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If, as you say, the person is "born genetically and physically a male" but their brain says differently, then they are not "born genetically and physically a male."

I wonder if I should dump a bunch of research showing that transsexuals are born with a brain that more resembles their identified sex than their birth/assigned sex?

 

[Ingledsva]

I wonder if I should dump a bunch of research showing that transsexuals are born with a brain that more resembles their identified sex than their birth/assigned sex?

At least links to them.

We have actually already put in links to brain studies, body studies, and pheromone studies that show, - unlike heterosexual brains, - that homosexual brains only respond to same sex pheromones.

And much-much more.

*

 

[shmogie]

I wonder if I should dump a bunch of research showing that transsexuals are born with a brain that more resembles their identified sex than their birth/assigned sex?

No purpose, at one time homosexual males were said to be so because of a slightly smaller brain, science has now abandoned that research and position in the last 15 years, research is hailed as definitive, then abandoned all the time

 

[shmogie]

If, as you say, the person is "born genetically and physically a male" but their brain says differently, then they are not "born genetically and physically a male."

Hmmm, If a person is born genetically and physically as a male, but their brain tells them they are an octopus, what are they ?

 

[shmogie]

At least links to them.

We have actually already put in links to brain studies, body studies, and pheromone studies that show, - unlike heterosexual brains, - that homosexual brains only respond to same sex pheromones.

And much-much more.

*

Here we go, again, does all the research you have quoted, all the links you have provided, add up to a clear, unassailable consensus opinion across multiple disciplines as to why, exactly, homosexuality exists in humans ?

 

[Ingledsva]

No purpose, at one time homosexual males were said to be so because of a slightly smaller brain, science has now abandoned that research and position in the last 15 years, research is hailed as definitive, then abandoned all the time

Bit of a problem with this - as there are now multiple studies showing a difference in the homosexual brain, genes, etc.

What is your reply to the pheromone studies?

For instance - a lone homosexual male is placed in a room, - hooked up to brain scanners, - and ONLY the pheromones of a male, or female, are released into the room, - and the sex centers of the brain are watched for activity.

A male homosexual's BRAIN only responds to a male's pheromones.

A male heterosexual's BRAIN only responds to female pheromones.

*

 

[Eliab ben Benjamin]

Yes please, that may be interesting

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No purpose, at one time homosexual males were said to be so because of a slightly smaller brain, science has now abandoned that research and position in the last 15 years, research is hailed as definitive, then abandoned all the time

Yeah, scientists have said some loopy stuff at times, but in the case of transsexuals, they have actually looked at the brain.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/

Their results, published in 2013, showed that even before treatment the brain structures of the trans people were more similar in some respects to the brains of their experienced gender than those of their natal gender. For example, the female-to-male subjects had relatively thin subcortical areas (these areas tend to be thinner in men than in women). Male-to-female subjects tended to have thinner cortical regions in the right hemisphere, which is characteristic of a female brain. (Such differences became more pronounced after treatment.)
...
They found that the adolescent boys and girls with gender dysphoria responded much like peers of their experienced gender. The results were less clear with the prepubertal children.
...
Overall the weight of these studies and others points strongly toward a biological basis for gender dysphoria.

http://www.majickalproductions.biz/bekasite/resouces/In-Womb Development.htm

In 1995, a team of brain researchers in the Netherlands (J.M. Zhou, M.A. Hofman, L.J. Gooren and D.F. Swaab) dissected and compared the autopsied brains of a number of transsexual, homosexual heterosexual men & women. They found major differences between the Transsexual and non-Transsexual brains. The part of the brain that they studies was a region of the hypothalamus found at the base of the brain. It is called the ‘Central Subdivision of the Bed Nucleus of the Stria Terminalis’. They found that this part of the normal brain is 50% larger than the normal femal brain. Furthermore, it is 60% larger than the MtF Transsexual brain. In other words, the male to female Transsexual brain was vastly different than the normal male brain and very much like the normal female brain. They suggested that this may be part of the reason why MtF transsexuals often describe themselves as a woman trapped in a men’s bodies.

And one that really excites me:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan/

Differences in the brain’s white matter that clash with a person’s genetic sex may hold the key to identifying transsexual people before puberty. Doctors could use this information to make a case for delaying puberty to improve the success of a sex change later.

Medics are keen to find concrete physical evidence to help those children who feel they are trapped in the body of the opposite sex. One key brain region involved is the BSTc, an area of grey matter. But the region is too small to scan in a living person so differences have only been picked up at post-mortem.

Antonio Guillamon‘s team at the National University of Distance Education in Madrid, Spain, think they have found a better way to spot a transsexual brain. In a study due to be published next month, the team ran MRI scans on the brains of 18 female-to-male transsexual people who’d had no treatment and compared them with those of 24 males and 19 females.

They found significant differences between male and female brains in four regions of white matter – and the female-to-male transsexual people had white matter in these regions that resembled a male brain (Journal of Psychiatric Research, DOI: 10.1016/j.jpsychires.2010.05.006). “It’s the first time it has been shown that the brains of female-to-male transsexual people are masculinised,” Guillamon says.


In a separate study, the team used the same technique to compare white matter in 18 male-to-female transsexual people with that in 19 males and 19 females. Surprisingly, in each transsexual person’s brain the structure of the white matter in the four regions was halfway between that of the males and females (Journal of Psychiatric Research, DOI: 10.1016/j.jpsychires.2010.11.007). “Their brains are not completely masculinised and not completely feminised, but they still feel female,” says Guillamon.

 

[Ingledsva]

Here we go, again, does all the research you have quoted, all the links you have provided, add up to a clear, unassailable consensus opinion across multiple disciplines as to why, exactly, homosexuality exists in humans ?

You are asking a question - that since we are not "God" (so to say) we can only make an educated speculation about, - and eventually come up with a majority consensus on.

And some of the studies linked have done exactly that.

For instance one such - noting that high stress results in more homosexual births - speculates that in times of great stress such as the devastation of ancient wars, - more homosexual births slowed down the population growth, - while still producing workers, etc., until the population could recover and rebuild, and provide enough food and shelter for a bigger population.

A more recent one a few pages back, - pointed out how homosexual activity works in the higher animal kingdom (Google the Bonobo, or watch the animal videos links provided a few pages back,) - and suggest it worked for the very same reasons for ancient humans, - actually enhancing their chances for survival. Which would mean homosexuality is an evolutionary survival advantage.

And up above I mention the one showing that women with close male homosexual family members - have more children, - leading to a search for the gene on the X chromosome - which is passed to both females and males.

*

 

[shmogie]

You stated you won't associate with them and that they can't be your best friend. That is discrimination. It's not a matter of seeking them out, but being cool with it if they are. From what you have said, you are not.

Yes, given the choice, I would push "the button" and eradicate behaviors such as yours. A policy of refusal to associate shouldn't exist. Dismissing mountains of evidence in exchange for beliefs that contradict the evidence, they should be extinguished.

Calling out bigotry and demanding equal rights does not, at all, in any way, reflect Nazi, Klan, or Stalinist ideology. "Gaystopo" is just rude and insulting.

So even though I just dumped on a ton of studies, it fails, even though you have provided none?

I have distorted nothing. I have shown the studies and organizations whose views reflect mine. You are the one who is trying to say something that is potentially very harmful can be good.

I am not trying to say anything, What behavior of mine would you eradicate ? My efforts to see that all people are assured that their constitutional rights are protected ? How about working in a profession where this is one one of the primary goals ? How about donating money to organizations that work for the rights of all people ? What the hell do you demand of me ? I said, I have never known a homosexual that I would have as my best friend, that applies to many, many heterosexuals as well. I do not seek out homosexuals to associate with, I do not seek out anyone to associate with. The gaystopo exists and has committed acts of violence and harassment against people who have different views than they do, they have called for the death of someone because when asked a hypothetical question, that someone said that because of their religious beliefs, fully protected by the first amendment, they would not cater a homosexual wedding. Don't tell me they don't exist because I still watch carefully legal issues that arise, and you sound exactly like one of them, unthinking, accusatory, judgemental, always ready to impute a slight, and always seeing someone who disagrees with you not in who they are, but as their disagreement sets your mind into hysterical, labeling, name calling hate. To hell with you.

 

[shmogie]

Speculates, some studies, suggests.................. I am sorry, but these are not descriptions of a definitive reason, or reasons.