Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[SkepticThinker]

Well, I think it was you scoffing at using a variety of factors when evaluating the testimony of one who said they saw a pink unicorn. As I recall, you said the testimony should be dismissed because science had proven there were no pink unicorns. These people could go on the stand and say they saw a pink unicorn, and be telling the truth. If it wasn't you, it wasn't meant for you

It was not me. And I have no idea how it relates to what I said.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I looked over their site, they only quote a particular part of a statement from the APA, a part that I actually quoted, and yes, they do cut out everything that goes against them, such as the phrase "not a choice" that appears close to their quoted phrase.

I posted that earlier as well but I don't think it was seen.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I posted that earlier as well but I don't think it was seen.

I saw that. I meant my post as a second voice confirming they selectively quoted. Or you meant Schmogie missed it. Either way, their stuff is pretty bogus, and from what I read absolutely none of it applies to me. None of their Xs or Ys.

 

[Ingledsva]

I looked over their site, they only quote a particular part of a statement from the APA, a part that I actually quoted, and yes, they do cut out everything that goes against them, such as the phrase "not a choice" that appears close to their quoted phrase.

Yep, plus it is a Christian site. No wonder they leave out pertinent information.

"A Gospel-Centered Perspective
The topic of same–sex attraction can create real challenges for LDS leaders, families, and friends. The psychological issues involved with homosexuality are complex and may be difficult to understand. The social and political discourse on topics like gay rights and gay marriage can be overwhelming and even intimidating. And constant media depictions of gays and lesbians encourage perspectives that are at odds with gospel principles and standards."

http://genderwholeness.com/lds/a-gospel-centered-perspective/

And it says -

"Disclaimer: The contents of this website are not intended to diagnose or treat any mental disorder or psychological condition. This material is intended only as information that may be helpful to the reader. CGW, its owners, and employees make no guarantees as to the accuracy or applicability of this information and the reader assumes full responsibility for its use."

*

 

[shmogie]

Yep, plus it is a Christian site. No wonder they leave out pertinent information.

"A Gospel-Centered Perspective
The topic of same–sex attraction can create real challenges for LDS leaders, families, and friends. The psychological issues involved with homosexuality are complex and may be difficult to understand. The social and political discourse on topics like gay rights and gay marriage can be overwhelming and even intimidating. And constant media depictions of gays and lesbians encourage perspectives that are at odds with gospel principles and standards."

http://genderwholeness.com/lds/a-gospel-centered-perspective/

And it says -

"Disclaimer: The contents of this website are not intended to diagnose or treat any mental disorder or psychological condition. This material is intended only as information that may be helpful to the reader. CGW, its owners, and employees make no guarantees as to the accuracy or applicability of this information and the reader assumes full responsibility for its use."

*

The CLDS as a denomination is not considered Christian by many, They are not sola scriptura, and their religion is based upon the mason rites, their founder and prophet apparently had hallucinations, They are not any form of authority to me on anything

 

[shmogie]

Maybe you could show us "beyond a reasonable doubt" that there's a heterosexual gene then.

If not then you've just described the components that make up heterosexuality AND/OR homosexuality.

You're really hung up on body parts, apparently. So much so that you're not even talking about homosexuality/heterosexuality anymore. You're talking about gender identity. So maybe you should look into the stuff Ingledsva is directing you to look at.

LOL, a male is a male, a female is a female, anyone looking at their body would know that.. If they think they are something else, or identify as something else, there must be a reason why. Why is it so difficult for you to grasp that ? Gender identity, over 90 percent of the time is consistent with the sex they were born as. In 10% of the population, this is not the case, ..................................................Are they born with a brain telling them that ? Well, there must be a reason. All the research is suggestive, perhaps emphatically, but suggestive.............. The bottom line is, the reason has not been clearly identified. You cannot claim otherwise, no matter how badly you want to

 

[shmogie]

It's that post you made way back when said you won't associate with homosexuals and they can't be your best friend.

Because I know people like you. Refusal to associate with, promoting a "therapy" that only represses (and very painfully so), and quoting the Bible to justify your ways. Of course you don't realize it, but you make people uncomfortable and miserable.

Because of people like you, I turned away from God.

I'm not conjuring boogeymen. You would listen to scientific reason, so I am giving you my own personal experiences, and the experiences of others. I doubt you could even begin to comprehend the pain and anguish when you "doing everything right," when you have a strong faith, and even others are acknowledging you as "the ideal Christian teen," but you're never "fixed," you're never "healed," and your misery grows and festers because it's constantly reinforced your very existence is an abomination. Your whole life, the parts most crucial to forming you as a person, you have to put on a daily and endless act because you aren't just a sinner, you aren't just sinning, you are an abomination. And even turning away from it, it's still hard because people like you, pointing at your Bible's as you spew your venom, make life even harder by sending politicians to govern based on platforms that actively seek to discriminate against the GLBT community. In Indiana, where the RFRA is heating up again, a "religious freedom" concern brought up was not having to work with certain people based on "sincerely held religious beliefs," meaning that your "non-association based on religion" would be enough to prevent someone who is GLBT from getting a job.
You don't get to see audiences on TV cheering on someone saying you are going to tear apart society, going to ruin marriage, confuse people about their gender, or molest kids in the bathroom. Like it or not, Christians like you are a bane to the existence of many. You are a thorn in our sides. We get to live knowing we can expect some people like crap just because of who we are. And, yes, refusing to associate with and saying they can't be your best friend just because of who they are is treating then like crap. You aren't treating equally as you would others.

Young lady, you are unhinged. You are consumed with hatred, you are flailing mindlessly. I will have nothing further to do with you. you truly need therapy, and not for your gender identification.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You are consumed with hatred, you are flailing mindlessly

Trust me, you've not seen hatred or mindless flailing. However, because hard science doesn't sway you, I moved to my own personal experiences. No, they aren't pretty, and they do not portray your views in a flattering way. If I seem bitter, well, it's because there is still some bitterness towards this ideology that had me hating myself and thinking the best I could hope for out of life is misery. And your only response is I "truly need therapy?" You've not acknowledged that the reason why the APA condemns reparative therapy, and as I have shown you they do have a consensus, is pretty much because it does to people what I experienced. But yet you promote it, even though it can end pretty badly.

 

[Katzpur]

The CLDS as a denomination is not considered Christian by many...

So, who cares what "many" think. All that matters is what God thinks, and He doesn't need your input or anybody else's.

They are not sola scriptura...

Correct. Why should they be? Because that's what "real Christians" (like you) believe that God decided to stop talking to mankind 2000 years ago?

...their religion is based upon the mason rites

What a totally overblown piece of crap. You obviously think you know a whole lot more about Mormonism than you really do.

their founder and prophet apparently had hallucinations.

Apparently, according to you. Do you have one shred of evidence to support this nonsense? I didn't think so.

 

[shmogie]

So, who cares what "many" think. All that matters is what God thinks, and He doesn't need your input or anybody else's.

Correct. Why should they be? Because that's what "real Christians" (like you) believe that God decided to stop talking to mankind 2000 years ago?

What a totally overblown piece of crap. You obviously think you know a whole lot more about Mormonism than you really do.

Apparently, according to you. Do you have one shred of evidence to support this nonsense? I didn't think so.

Oh, but I do. Both Smith and his father were deeply associated with the masons, many rites of your church are reflections of masonic practice. I have studied in depth the four denominations that came out of the 19th century as having "special revelation directly from God". The CLDS, Seventh Day Adventists, Christian Scientists, Jehovah's Witnesses. One wonders why, if God needed to expand on Christ's teachings, and those of the Apostles, he waited almost 1,900 years to do it. And, even more surprisingly, he gave four different , conflicting messages, to four groups, within 70 years of each other,. Of course, he only truly spoke to Joseph Smith, right? Regardless, you are right, you shouldn't give a rats rear what anybody else thinks. If you are following God the way you believe he has lead, that is all that counts, and all that should be important to you., Heck, I love members of your denomination, two of my closest friends are members of your church. I simply do not see pronouncements of your church as having any authority or relevance to me.

 

[shmogie]

Trust me, you've not seen hatred or mindless flailing. However, because hard science doesn't sway you, I moved to my own personal experiences. No, they aren't pretty, and they do not portray your views in a flattering way. If I seem bitter, well, it's because there is still some bitterness towards this ideology that had me hating myself and thinking the best I could hope for out of life is misery. And your only response is I "truly need therapy?" You've not acknowledged that the reason why the APA condemns reparative therapy, and as I have shown you they do have a consensus, is pretty much because it does to people what I experienced. But yet you promote it, even though it can end pretty badly.

I don't promote any therapy for anybody for any reason, it is a matter of choice I suggested therapy for you for a totally different reason. You are wounded, angry, bitter, and you apparently haven';t processed and come to terms with it. Without getting it done somehow it will only harm you. My dad came back from WW2 a changed man. He could not accept the fact that he had killed several men, including a15 yo boy. For 60 years it ground him up, he was too proud to seek help. I have a terrible memory of a 92 yo man weeping for those he had killed. So, you need to let your anger and hate go somehow, Further, you need to learn not to create straw men from these things, and project them on to others wrongly, , so you can release your rage. I don't understand why it is so important to you to "sway" me.There will always be people who disagree with you on any subject. I have been involved in situations where the evidence was overpowering, and damn the jury didn';t see it my way, it was so clear. Ultimately, if someone doesn't agree with me, it is their problem, not mine.Christ came to set the captives free, I will pray for you

 

[shmogie]

I posted that earlier as well but I don't think it was seen.

OK, "not a choice". Proof of this beyond reasonable doubt ?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't promote any therapy for anybody for any reason, it is a matter of choice I suggested therapy for you for a totally different reason.

You have stated many times that people can change through the power of God. Changes in general, for whatever reason, just don't work. Even diets typically fail because change is never just that easy.

You are wounded, angry, bitter, and you apparently haven';t processed and come to terms with it.

If you want to see anger, you should try condoning bullying. Then you'll get to see anger. I also do not like ideologies that insist people who are doing nothing wrong must change, that the only basis on insistence they change is because of an ancient book wrote by people who thought slinging birds blood around was a good idea, and because of researchers who have either been misrepresented, organizations that have been misquoted, or flawed researchers who later get caught with male lovers or prostitutes.
And come to terms with what?

Without getting it done somehow it will only harm you.

Actually, that is not at all what I'm in therapy for, and my therapist says it's OK to have that bitterness. Let it out (in a constructive way that doesn't harm others) if I need to.

So, you need to let your anger and hate go somehow,

Actually I have. But when someone says "pray the gay away," it does provoke bitterness and resentment because I know what such a mentality does to people, and I know the people who promote it. I know it destroys families, I know it makes people homeless as teenagers, and I know it causes very deep emotional scaring.

Further, you need to learn not to create straw men from these things, and project them on to others wrongly,

I'm not creating straw men. When facts and science failed to persuade you (as they do most people), I switched tactics to the emotional level, which is my own experience, and how it was a part of the reason my childhood and teens were so miserable.

I don't understand why it is so important to you to "sway" me.

Because if those like Dr. King can give his life working to his Dream a reality, of people walking hand-in-hand, of people being judged by the content of their character, if he can give his life for such a cause the least I can do is try to educate people on an online forum.

Ultimately, if someone doesn't agree with me, it is their problem, not mine.

It's not my problem if you promote this reparative therapy, a form of therapy that doesn't work. People just are not changed by "the power of God." I've cited evidence of this, all you've done is make claims.

Christ came to set the captives free, I will pray for you

Like it or not, I shackled, chained, whipped, and abused under Christ. He was no liberator.

OK, "not a choice". Proof of this beyond reasonable doubt ?

YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN THIS PROOF BUT YOU HAVE TIME AND TIME AGAIN IGNORED IT!!! I even used the full quotation of what your "genetic wholeness" or whatever uses, where in the same statement, very close to where the bit "genetic wholeness" quoted, the phrase "no choice" appears.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I saw that. I meant my post as a second voice confirming they selectively quoted. Or you meant Schmogie missed it. Either way, their stuff is pretty bogus, and from what I read absolutely none of it applies to me. None of their Xs or Ys.

I meant that it seemed like shmogie missed it. And yours as well.

That site is still pushing the "unhealthy relationship with women = gay men" nonsense.

 

[SkepticThinker]

The CLDS as a denomination is not considered Christian by many, They are not sola scriptura, and their religion is based upon the mason rites, their founder and prophet apparently had hallucinations, They are not any form of authority to me on anything

I"m curious as to why you referenced the site then.

 

[SkepticThinker]

LOL, a male is a male, a female is a female, anyone looking at their body would know that.. If they think they are something else, or identify as something else, there must be a reason why. Why is it so difficult for you to grasp that ? Gender identity, over 90 percent of the time is consistent with the sex they were born as. In 10% of the population, this is not the case, ..................................................Are they born with a brain telling them that ? Well, there must be a reason. All the research is suggestive, perhaps emphatically, but suggestive.............. The bottom line is, the reason has not been clearly identified. You cannot claim otherwise, no matter how badly you want to

Why are you now talking about gender identity instead of homosexuality?

 

[SkepticThinker]

OK, "not a choice". Proof of this beyond reasonable doubt ?

Yeah, I think so.

When did you consciously choose who you find yourself attracted to?

 

[shmogie]

Didn't, I was born a male attracted to females, as is the norm for over 90% of males.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Didn't, I was born a male attracted to females, as is the norm for over 90% of males.

Great, so now you know it's not a choice.

Around 10% of the population is attracted to members of the same sex, as is the norm for around 10% of the population.

 

[shmogie]

Why are you now talking about gender identity instead of homosexuali
i use the termgender and sex interchangibly, perhaps wrongly. I will use the term sex for what a person is born as, `I will use the term gender identity when someone identifies themselves as not being the sex they were born as, or, being a variation from over 90% of the population who identify themselves as the sex they were born. Clear ?