Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[Ingledsva]

Speculates, some studies, suggests.................. I am sorry, but these are not descriptions of a definitive reason, or reasons.

LOL! Scientific studies, against your Bible written by ancient nomads! Science wins!

You have given no actual rebuttal to those studies. The Bible says so (supposedly,) won't do it.

*

 

[shmogie]

Bit of a problem with this - as there are now multiple studies showing a difference in the homosexual brain, genes, etc.

What is your reply to the pheromone studies?

For instance - a lone homosexual male is placed in a room, - hooked up to brain scanners, - and ONLY the pheromones of a male, or female, are released into the room, - and the sex centers of the brain are watched for activity.

A male homosexual's BRAIN only responds to a male's pheromones.

A male heterosexual's BRAIN only responds to female pheromones.

*

If true, why does their brain do that ? these are results, not reasons why. Are they consistent with every person tested ? Depression is commonly held to be the result of environmental factors by those psychiatrists who believe strongly in talk therapy to deal with it. Pharmaceutical psychiatrists believe that depression is caused by the brain not producing enough of the feel good chemicals, or their brains re absorb them too quickly. Thus they treat with drugs designed to prevent this. No doubt there are pracritioners every where in between. When pinned down, they all will say, no one knows, for sure

 

[shmogie]

LOL! Scientific studies, against your Bible written by ancient nomads! Science wins!

You have given no actual rebuttal to those studies. The Bible says so (supposedly,) won't do it.

*

You see, you are not a jury I am trying to influence or convince of anything. The Bible says so, until your precious science announces identified, consistently accepted, reasons, does it for me

 

[Shadow Wolf]

When it comes to gender and sexuality, it is very much one of my areas. When you say there is no consensus, I know what the consensus and different schools are. I know what groups have what approaches, what they are referencing, and a lot of times even whose doing the funding. The very fact they can look at just one gene and predict sexuality on over 70% of children, it shows there is most definitely something genetic going on. When they look at the brains of homosexuals, and even transsexuals, they find that something genetic is definitely going on. These aren't beliefs. These are concrete facts, such as knowing everything electronic needs a circuit for the electricity to make the thing work.
And not only do I have a vast depth of knowledge to draw on the issue, I have my own personal experience. I was having nightmares about the punishment in hell because of who I am, and that is where I would be going. There is also a lot of shame involved because of the belief that it's a choice. Who would choice it? I certainly didn't, and things would be so much easier if I could have chosen. But I went from not wanting to live to finding direction in life. God was an anchor, and I unlocked the shackles. Hopefully soon I'll be cutting of the remaining one, which is living in such a conservative area that I just don't feel comfortable doing more than passively living.
Basically, people like you make people like me miserable. When I followed your ways, people like you nearly drove me to suicide. And, believe me, it sucks knowing that people like you seeing you one way, while knowing they would avoid you if they knew who you really are. I've even met people who refuse to shake the hands of homosexuals. People like you make life hell for many, and it makes me hope your God is real, because how do you think when you stand before your God, and Satan announces to him that you sins including making some people miserable to the point of hating their lives, with many thinking of, attempting, and some even successful killing themselves because you were a dark rainy cloud that hung over their head? What will your god rule when Satan informs him that you not only made their lives miserable, you drove many away from their faith because of the hatred towards them you showed? And when you are in Hell, we will meet, and I will ask how does it feel? How does it feel, knowing your pain is greater because to you being separated from God is a tragedy?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Or maybe I won't go to hell? The Pope doesn't seem to think I will.

 

[Ingledsva]

You see, you are not a jury I am trying to influence or convince of anything. The Bible says so, until your precious science announces identified, consistently accepted, reasons, does it for me

That is funny when you have no reality behind your bible beliefs, - and absolutely nothing to back those beliefs.

And the science studies - are just that - actual scientific studies.

*

 

[Ingledsva]

If true, why does their brain do that ? these are results, not reasons why. Are they consistent with every person tested ? Depression is commonly held to be the result of environmental factors by those psychiatrists who believe strongly in talk therapy to deal with it. Pharmaceutical psychiatrists believe that depression is caused by the brain not producing enough of the feel good chemicals, or their brains re absorb them too quickly. Thus they treat with drugs designed to prevent this. No doubt there are pracritioners every where in between. When pinned down, they all will say, no one knows, for sure

LOL! The why is because they were born homosexual. We can turn this around and ask you why male heterosexuals' sex centers in the brain only respond to female pheromones? The answer = they were born heterosexual.

Logically - if we use your Bible ideas, - and say the heterosexual sex brain only reacts to female pheromones because they were created that way, - then - the same hold true for homosexual brains - they were created that way

And your depression "comparison" holds no water, as environmental factors do lead to chemical changes in the brain, resulting in depression. Both talk, or drugs, can alter these chemicals.


*

 

[SkepticThinker]

Think, is not proof. Yes some people are born with no specific body type of a gender. A baby born clearly as a female, with the genetic makeup of a female, with no physical confusion, is a female, The parents fully expect the child to behave sexually as a female, who is attracted to a male, and their expectation is right more than 95% of the time. So, why not in 100% of the time ? Animals that transmute sexually are genetically programmed to do so, you and I are not, at least, no gene has been found that would account for it

Sexual development/identity is the result of all kinds of different factors interacting (environment, epigenetics, chromosomes, hormones, genes, birth order, etc.) rather than simply the expression of a single gene. A lot of biological development works this way. You're simplifying it far too much, which is where this misunderstanding is coming from.

 

[SkepticThinker]

5 to 8 percent of the population. Over 90% of the population are heterosexuals, seems pretty consistent to me

5-20% Of the population are consistently gay. Sounds pretty consistent to me.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Please go to the site called "the Center for Genetic Wholeness", I don't cut and paste. This is a homosexual support site. They HONESTLY address the issue and the APA position

I think you mean the Center for Gender Wholeness. They selectively quote the APA when it serves their own purposes, apparently. But they left off the rest of what the APA has to say on the subject, which is this: "Since 1975, the American Psychological Association has called on psychologists to take the lead in removing the stigma of mental illness that has long been associated with lesbian, gay and bisexual orientations. The discipline of psychology is concerned with the well-being of people and groups and therefore with threats to that well-being. The prejudice and discrimination that people who identify as lesbian, gay or bisexual regularly experience have been shown to have negative psychological effects. This pamphlet is designed to provide accurate information for those who want to better understand sexual orientation and the impact of prejudice and discrimination on those who identify as lesbian, gay or bisexual."

And you had said earlier that the APA has some kind of list of "life experiences" but they have no such thing. That was a creation of the Centre for Gender Wholeness.
Not to mention that this site you've referenced apparently is still sticking with the long ago debunked "cause" about overbearing mothers causing their sons to be gay. They should be ashamed of themselves for pushing old outdated nonsense like that.

 

[SkepticThinker]

We had a discussion re someone seeing a pink unicorn, and being wrong, because they do not exist. On the 26th of this month in Maidera county, California, the Highway Patrol spent a number of hours chasing a pink unicorn in and out of traffic, hundreds saw it. When finally captured, it turned out to be a pony colored pink, with a horn stuck on, that escaped from a child,s party, nevertheless, the cops identified it as a unicorn on their radio's, it is what they saw

How does this in any way address what I said?

 

[SkepticThinker]

I wonder if I should dump a bunch of research showing that transsexuals are born with a brain that more resembles their identified sex than their birth/assigned sex?

It's probably a great way to illustrate the complexity of what we are talking about.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Hmmm, If a person is born genetically and physically as a male, but their brain tells them they are an octopus, what are they ?

How about just addressing the male/female thing.

Speculates, some studies, suggests.................. I am sorry, but these are not descriptions of a definitive reason, or reasons.

There's no definitive reason, no bright blinking lights, that tell us exactly how someone is born heterosexual. So what?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Hmmm, If a person is born genetically and physically as a male, but their brain tells them they are an octopus, what are they ?

How about we stick to humans for now.

 

[shmogie]

When it comes to gender and sexuality, it is very much one of my areas. When you say there is no consensus, I know what the consensus and different schools are. I know what groups have what approaches, what they are referencing, and a lot of times even whose doing the funding. The very fact they can look at just one gene and predict sexuality on over 70% of children, it shows there is most definitely something genetic going on. When they look at the brains of homosexuals, and even transsexuals, they find that something genetic is definitely going on. These aren't beliefs. These are concrete facts, such as knowing everything electronic needs a circuit for the electricity to make the thing work.
And not only do I have a vast depth of knowledge to draw on the issue, I have my own personal experience. I was having nightmares about the punishment in hell because of who I am, and that is where I would be going. There is also a lot of shame involved because of the belief that it's a choice. Who would choice it? I certainly didn't, and things would be so much easier if I could have chosen. But I went from not wanting to live to finding direction in life. God was an anchor, and I unlocked the shackles. Hopefully soon I'll be cutting of the remaining one, which is living in such a conservative area that I just don't feel comfortable doing more than passively living.
Basically, people like you make people like me miserable. When I followed your ways, people like you nearly drove me to suicide. And, believe me, it sucks knowing that people like you seeing you one way, while knowing they would avoid you if they knew who you really are. I've even met people who refuse to shake the hands of homosexuals. People like you make life hell for many, and it makes me hope your God is real, because how do you think when you stand before your God, and Satan announces to him that you sins including making some people miserable to the point of hating their lives, with many thinking of, attempting, and some even successful killing themselves because you were a dark rainy cloud that hung over their head? What will your god rule when Satan informs him that you not only made their lives miserable, you drove many away from their faith because of the hatred towards them you showed? And when you are in Hell, we will meet, and I will ask how does it feel? How does it feel, knowing your pain is greater because to you being separated from God is a tragedy?

People like me, what does that mean ? I don't hate anyone, why do you continue to assert I do ? I don't make anyone's life miserable, that would be contrary to my it is against my fundamental Christian ethics, why do you say I do ? When you followed my way's, "people like me make life hell for many", please tell me how you know I have done this ? Aren't you judging an entire group based on your experience. What if I had been molested by a homosexual as a child, and I said that because of that, you must be a child molester, does that make sense to you ? What right do you have to judge me, when you don't even know me ? Why would God accuse me of forcing anyone to hate their lives, or commit suicide, when I haven't done that in any way, shape or form ? I have plenty of sins, but those don't apply. I drove none, not many from their faith. How did I do that ? I have never sat on a church board, or membership committee that ever discussed homosexuals for any reasons. I may have had some in a class I taught, I don't even know, and homosexuality was never discussed. I have done many one on one Bible study's, I don't know if any were homosexuals, but the issue never came up. What makes you think either you or I are going to hell ? (go to hell isn't a specific direction or wish, it is an expression of disgust, disgust for your post) If you believe you are right with God, what more do you need ? I wouldn't nor have I ever judged anyone's soul, certainly not yours I have repeated over and over again that Christ firmly condemns that, I would be insane. Take the chip off your shoulder, untwist your panties, and think like a rational adult, and quit conjuring up boogey men (or women) where they don't exist

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They selectively quote the APA when it serves their own purposes, apparently.

I looked over their site, they only quote a particular part of a statement from the APA, a part that I actually quoted, and yes, they do cut out everything that goes against them, such as the phrase "not a choice" that appears close to their quoted phrase.

 

[shmogie]

How about just addressing the male/female thing.

There's no definitive reason, no bright blinking lights, that tell us exactly how someone is born heterosexual. So what?

No, I won't stick to the male female thing. Peoples brains tell them all kinds of things.................................. Oh but there are bright blinking lights that tells us why people are born heterosexual, their sexuality is determined by their genes, and their male/female body. If their genes and body say the are one gender, but their brain says otherwise, there obviously is a reason

 

[shmogie]

How does this in any way address what I said?

Well, I think it was you scoffing at using a variety of factors when evaluating the testimony of one who said they saw a pink unicorn. As I recall, you said the testimony should be dismissed because science had proven there were no pink unicorns. These people could go on the stand and say they saw a pink unicorn, and be telling the truth. If it wasn't you, it wasn't meant for you

 

[Shadow Wolf]

People like me, what does that mean ? I don't hate anyone,

It's that post you made way back when said you won't associate with homosexuals and they can't be your best friend.

please tell me how you know I have done this ?

Because I know people like you. Refusal to associate with, promoting a "therapy" that only represses (and very painfully so), and quoting the Bible to justify your ways. Of course you don't realize it, but you make people uncomfortable and miserable.

If you believe you are right with God, what more do you need ?

Because of people like you, I turned away from God.

Take the chip off your shoulder, untwist your panties, and think like a rational adult, and quit conjuring up boogey men (or women) where they don't exist

I'm not conjuring boogeymen. You would listen to scientific reason, so I am giving you my own personal experiences, and the experiences of others. I doubt you could even begin to comprehend the pain and anguish when you "doing everything right," when you have a strong faith, and even others are acknowledging you as "the ideal Christian teen," but you're never "fixed," you're never "healed," and your misery grows and festers because it's constantly reinforced your very existence is an abomination. Your whole life, the parts most crucial to forming you as a person, you have to put on a daily and endless act because you aren't just a sinner, you aren't just sinning, you are an abomination. And even turning away from it, it's still hard because people like you, pointing at your Bible's as you spew your venom, make life even harder by sending politicians to govern based on platforms that actively seek to discriminate against the GLBT community. In Indiana, where the RFRA is heating up again, a "religious freedom" concern brought up was not having to work with certain people based on "sincerely held religious beliefs," meaning that your "non-association based on religion" would be enough to prevent someone who is GLBT from getting a job.
You don't get to see audiences on TV cheering on someone saying you are going to tear apart society, going to ruin marriage, confuse people about their gender, or molest kids in the bathroom. Like it or not, Christians like you are a bane to the existence of many. You are a thorn in our sides. We get to live knowing we can expect some people like crap just because of who we are. And, yes, refusing to associate with and saying they can't be your best friend just because of who they are is treating then like crap. You aren't treating equally as you would others.

 

[SkepticThinker]

No, I won't stick to the male female thing. Peoples brains tell them all kinds of things.................................. Oh but there are bright blinking lights that tells us why people are born heterosexual, their sexuality is determined by their genes, and their male/female body. If their genes and body say the are one gender, but their brain says otherwise, there obviously is a reason

Maybe you could show us "beyond a reasonable doubt" that there's a heterosexual gene then.

If not then you've just described the components that make up heterosexuality AND/OR homosexuality.

You're really hung up on body parts, apparently. So much so that you're not even talking about homosexuality/heterosexuality anymore. You're talking about gender identity. So maybe you should look into the stuff Ingledsva is directing you to look at.