Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[Deidre]

You are correct, sin is sin, one is no better nor worse than another

But, I'm of the belief too that the Bible is a guide, not a tool to condemn others with. I liken it to throwing stones, what do you think of that?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No, they change for God, not others, and they change by God. You deny that God can do what he said he could do, I do not

Again, what of the majority that god failed to change? Those who tried, who believed, who had faith, but were not changed?

 

[Katzpur]

The concept of the priesthood of all believers was born in the Reformation, just as sola scriptura was.

I rest my case.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

No, they change for God, not others, and they change by God. You deny that God can do what he said he could do, I do not

You've yet to offer any evidence of this, or that you know your god's will, who you claim exists.

 

[JoStories]

Its not that scripture dont side with relationships. Just its specific with just marriage.

I mean, logically not morally I think of it like this:

EDIT: Analogy below

Scripture says: thou shall murder.

IF scripture did not mention to love each other at all, why would I assume murder is wrong when one, its not in scripture and two, it says the opposite?

My own interpretation (within the analogy) would be "just because it doesnt say love thy neightbor doesnt make it true we shoulent"

But the fact in his analogy it says "thou shall murder"

No matter how I personally disagree, why Logically not morally would I assume scripture says more than whats written in content and context?

Above is an analogy. I understand your point, though. No one answered yet why would I assume that isnt mentioned in context and content.

Eh.

I guess that pesky commandment about thou shalt not murder is being tossed out with the bath water? Things such as : Exodus 20; 13 “You shall not murder. Or Leviticus 24; 17
“Whoever takes a human life shall surely be put to death".
Of course, it does say in Exodus 32: “Thus says the Lord God, ‘Put every man his sword by his side, slay every man his brother, his companion and neighbor."
Now, one could ask, why the contradictory verses? My favorite analogy comes from a Christian apologist, Kyle Butt (I cannot help but laugh at his name in this instance, sorry).
He says: " The original readers understood that the commandment in Exodus 20:13 did not mean that all killing was wrong, including capital punishment. They understood that certain qualifications, as are detailed in the rest of the Law, put limits, restrictions, and allowances on the term “kill.” Barker would have us to believe that whoever wrote the book of Exodus was so ignorant that he did not catch contradictory statements that are separated by less than one chapter. Yet, such an idea is ridiculous in light of the remarkable accuracy and acumen of the Old Testament instructions"
http://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=13&article=2794

I don't think I have seen better tap dancing than this, even by Gregory Hines. So what are we to make of this contradiction? Does the Bible then have so many open interpretations in understanding to render it incomprehensible, and even to some regard, useless? Do we have permission to kill or do we not? This same contradictory analogy does not pertain to the issue of SSM, OTOH, because there is only ONE statement in the Bible, yet there is NO admonition that states one cannot be married to a same sex partner. One can say they assume that just because it is not mentioned that that means it is still prohibited. Why? We could also assume a great many things, were that the case, non?

 

[JoStories]

Probably because what we (we as in those of us alive today) consider pedophilia was a fairly common practice in ancient times.
To us, the tragedy of Juliet and Romeo isn't that they died, it's that our "celebrated star crossed lovers" involved a 13 year-old girl and a boy who isn't much older.

And pedophilia continues to be prevalent and even condoned in many middle eastern countries and in Africa. Children are slated to be 'married' as young as 10 or 12. That is pedophilia, in a nut shell. I know of no children that age who have the cognitive or emotional stability or even physicality to be able to understand and participate in marriage.

 

[JoStories]

We are talking about the absence of condemnation in the Bible. Who are you to judge what isn't in the Bible ? If omission is permission, then, everything omitted is permitted, society's norms are not at play here. Your logic makes it perfectly clear. You can't begin judging what isn't there by other criteria. Omission is permission for whatever isn't mentioned, if it is permission for one thing that isn't meantioned

What gives you the right to say such a thing? Leibowde has as much right to judge the Bible, given he is Christian, as you do. So I ask you; who are you to judge what IS in the Bible? Are you God?

 

[JoStories]

The Bible speaks for Christianity, what others accept or deny is no concern of mine

If that is true, that its of no concern to you, why have you been carrying on for who knows how many pages now that it is wrong, no matter what? I mean, if you don't care, simply stop saying that you do.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Sex outside of marriage is considered 'sinful' ...so that encompasses heterosexual and homosexual sex. But, most Christians don't address the heterosexual part, and seem to think that homosexual sin is graver or separate and away from other 'sins.' My own personal opinion is that ....it's none of my business what other people are doing in their bedrooms, if it's between consenting adults.

If I may ask...curious of your opinion on this is all

When you say sex outside of marriage is a sin, do you consider that homosexuals could be married within Christianity, or do you think that contrary to the belief system? There are of course churches that marry gay couples.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I guess that pesky commandment about thou shalt not murder is being tossed out with the bath water? Things such as : Exodus 20; 13 “You shall not murder. Or Leviticus 24; 17
“Whoever takes a human life shall surely be put to death".
Of course, it does say in Exodus 32: “Thus says the Lord God, ‘Put every man his sword by his side, slay every man his brother, his companion and neighbor."
Now, one could ask, why the contradictory verses? My favorite analogy comes from a Christian apologist, Kyle Butt (I cannot help but laugh at his name in this instance, sorry).
He says: " The original readers understood that the commandment in Exodus 20:13 did not mean that all killing was wrong, including capital punishment. They understood that certain qualifications, as are detailed in the rest of the Law, put limits, restrictions, and allowances on the term “kill.” Barker would have us to believe that whoever wrote the book of Exodus was so ignorant that he did not catch contradictory statements that are separated by less than one chapter. Yet, such an idea is ridiculous in light of the remarkable accuracy and acumen of the Old Testament instructions"
http://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=13&article=2794

I don't think I have seen better tap dancing than this, even by Gregory Hines. So what are we to make of this contradiction? Does the Bible then have so many open interpretations in understanding to render it incomprehensible, and even to some regard, useless? Do we have permission to kill or do we not? This same contradictory analogy does not pertain to the issue of SSM, OTOH, because there is only ONE statement in the Bible, yet there is NO admonition that states one cannot be married to a same sex partner. One can say they assume that just because it is not mentioned that that means it is still prohibited. Why? We could also assume a great many things, were that the case, non?

Oh gosh, Jostories. Can I ask you personally? Are you actively reading my posts? I will try to make this eaiser to read. I read all posts in full; but this one kinda bothered me. It has nothing to do with what we are discussing.

I wont quote. My points are:
Oh. Also, read below first then reply.

1. I agree that marriage is between two people regardless of gender

2. I also feel if god exist he blesses all christian marriages because he knows each couples hearts.

3. Why am I defending this when I disagree? (Letting you assume I am christian?)

It is a debate site. I also hate when my points are overlooked or not taken in context.

I look for mutural understanding not whose right and wrong.

4. My "murder" comment is an anology to compare my point about same-sex marriage not talk about the logistics of what Exodus 20 means.

Please look at the post: it is analogy.

A. I said that just because same-sex marriage is not in the bible, according to the bible in context it does not make it right.

This is not my opinion just what I stuided and had it explained in detail.

You mentioned Exodus 20. "You shall not murder".

Please do not go over the logistics of the phrase. Read as is.

Scripture says "you shall not murder" just as it says marriage is between male and female. It does not say "you shall murder" just as it does not say "allow same-sex marriage".

My questions:

Why would I consider murder is right according to scripture because it is not in scripture and you posted otherwise?

Likewise, why would I assume same-sex marriage is okay when it is not mentioned in scripture and from what you posted, it says otherwise?

I understand all your points in all your posts.

My questions to you again (if you answered, I did not see because we are talking around my main point)

A. Just because you shall murder in scripture is not there, it does not make it right. Why? It specifically says you shall not murder. Why would I assume otherwise?

B. Likewise, just because same-sex marriage is not right in scripture, does not make it right. Why? It specifically says marriage is between male and female. Why would I assume otherwise?



** I bolded to emphsis my points and explanation for clarity not yelling or force speaking.

** Take your time before replying so you understand my points and dont need to research or quote anything for something simple.

** Ask for clarification. I dislike dropnoff conversations when I know it has ended in misunderstsnding not mutual agree to disagree

** Dont read between the lines unless I specifically say "this is analogy or metaphor". Please. It will save a lot of ills if you read my statements verbatim.

** If you actively read my full post, thank you. Let me know if you understand. If so, as an option explain so I know. We can agree to disagree if need be.

 

[shmogie]

If that is true, that its of no concern to you, why have you been carrying on for who knows how many pages now that it is wrong, no matter what? I mean, if you don't care, simply stop saying that you do.

I only respond to others. I came to this thread explain and present a position. For days I have been bombarded by silly and superficial questions. I don't back down. I only care within the context of the Christianity, as Paul explained. If you, and others who think like you would stop asking questions........................................................................

 

[shmogie]

What gives you the right to say such a thing? Leibowde has as much right to judge the Bible, given he is Christian, as you do. So I ask you; who are you to judge what IS in the Bible? Are you God?

Uh, the whole statement was

What gives you the right to say such a thing? Leibowde has as much right to judge the Bible, given he is Christian, as you do. So I ask you; who are you to judge what IS in the Bible? Are you God?

We were talking of what ISN'T in the Bible, and the obvious major flaw in the logic carried to its obvious conclusion. Of course everyone has the right to see things as they choose including the Bible. However if someone decides to engage someone who believes differently, and present an argument to that person, refutation must be expected. After all this is a debate forum, no ? To paraphrase a political axiom, sometimes debate ain't beanbags. The cabal of posters here haven't been throwing beanbags, no problem though

 

[shmogie]

You've yet to offer any evidence of this, or that you know your god's will, who you claim exists.

Take it or leave it, your choice

 

[shmogie]

I rest my case.

Not sure what your case was, but I hope it enjoy's it's rest

 

[shmogie]

Again, what of the majority that god failed to change? Those who tried, who believed, who had faith, but were not changed?

I can't offer an explanation, I am not God. I wish I could. Nevertheless, you must know that only God can examine and judge reasons and motives, and he always does so with extreme mercy and love.We humans can only judge actions, and have no responsibility of judging anyone on this matter except in the very narrow issue of church membership. As you have pointed out, there are congregations that choose not to do so, for whatever reason, which is certainly their right. My congregation sees what the Bible says, believe it says what it says, and follows that standard. It has nothing to do with animus, it simply is a matter of following the model laid down for the church.

 

[shmogie]

But, I'm of the belief too that the Bible is a guide, not a tool to condemn others with. I liken it to throwing stones, what do you think of that?

I think you have the right to believe whatever you choose ! In my opinion, the Bible isn't a guide that one can decide follow or not as they choose. Note the title of this thread, it's kind of obvious that a variety of positions were expected to be presented.Or, do you think it's intent was for only one position to be presented, and everyone could post and counterpost congratulations to one another ? Presenting a position, and defending it are neither throwing stones, or judging. It simply as a Biblical position. If the greenhouse walks up to you, and says "throw some rocks at me I want to look at them more closely", and you do............................................................................................

 

[shmogie]

There is nothing to change. Homosexuality is not an action.

Ha. If god changed me, Id be looking up, "hey whatcha do that for?"

"Because its a sin to be homosexual"

"Really what have I done?"

"Oh. Nothing. Figure you got a defect and decided to change that now"

From the Biblical perspective, homosexuality is defined as an action. Paul doesn't say "they thought this" or "are that", he describes clearly the actions that are condemned. I had a cousin that had distinct homosexual proclivities, by his choice he became a Christian, by his faith, he clearly understood the Biblical admonitions, and by his choice he lived the rest of his life celibate. Whatever he might "have been" is irrelevant, he didn't commit the actions. He finished his race, and won the prize. He and I were close friends, and I have hope that I will see him again, I know he resides in the kingdom now, it is for me to finish the race and keep the faith.,

 

[Unveiled Artist]

From the Biblical perspective, homosexuality is defined as an action. Paul doesn't say "they thought this" or "are that", he describes clearly the actions that are condemned. I had a cousin that had distinct homosexual proclivities, by his choice he became a Christian, by his faith, he clearly understood the Biblical admonitions, and by his choice he lived the rest of his life celibate. Whatever he might "have been" is irrelevant, he didn't commit the actions. He finished his race, and won the prize. He and I were close friends, and I have hope that I will see him again, I know he resides in the kingdom now, it is for me to finish the race and keep the faith.,

Basically, you are not specifcally talking about gay, lesbian, and bi people but Any person, straight included who change their behavior they call sin?

 

[shmogie]

That would mean god is in the wrong too and so is abraham for sacrificing his son and the isrealites for obeying gods command to kill people for their promise land.



The intent does not need to be acceptable. The point is it is there and god does not like that "too".



Worshiping is more than an action. You are placing trust and giving your life or adapting your life to what you put at high honor. I can worship without doing anything but prayer.

Thats like saying because I created a clay craft, made it gold, and set it in my living room I did something bad. Instead of actually siting it on an altar and "by purpose" worshiping it "instead of" worshiping god.

Intent and actions go hand in hand.

No, using your example, murder is killing that is against the prevailing law. The intent for killing someone illegally is irrelevant. In American law intent is considered in determining the degree of murder, i.e. first, second, in some states third, but they are illegal murder in all degrees. Abraham didn't sacrifice his son, and the killing of the canannites was sanctioned by God, and thus not "against the law"

 

[shmogie]

Basically, you are not specifcally talking about gay, lesbian, and bi people but Any person, straight included who change their behavior they call sin?

Correct. As I have said, Christ came to save people from their sin, not in their sin. No sin is any better or worse than another they are all wrong. Christ didn't say "just say no". What many people miss is that he promised guidance and help in defeating sin in ones life, the indwelling Spirit. It wouldn't be much use if he said "cut it out" when he knew humanity's human nature wouldn't allow that to happen