Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[Unveiled Artist]

No, using your example, murder is killing that is against the prevailing law. The intent for killing someone illegally is irrelevant. In American law intent is considered in determining the degree of murder, i.e. first, second, in some states third, but they are illegal murder in all degrees. Abraham didn't sacrifice his son, and the killing of the canannites was sanctioned by God, and thus not "against the law"

Remember, though, no matter who its sanctioned by and the intent, they killed. That action is a sin, according to your logic. Canannites motivations and intent supposedly have nothing to do with it.

Intent and action go hand in hand in scripture. The same animal the Isrealites and levites offered as a sacrifice to god at gods command would die at gods hands if it were offered in the exact same way by pagans.

Its not the act...clearly god is not bothered by sacrifice. Its that intent...clealy god let Jesus pray at the temple but Jesus belittles the jews doing the same claiming they (i believe) babbled prayers like the pagans.

Yet both did the same thing. Same customs. Same practices. Jesus said they didnt trust in their lord but their practices.

I light candles to my grandmother each morning. My christian friend lights candles in the storm when the lights go out. I pray in front of an altar to the spirits and my ancestors. She finds solace in her closet, her hair covered in extreme submittance and devotion to her god.

We both do the same things (actions). Our intent and source is different. Wouls god punish her for praying to him in the same manner I pray to my family? Or is it the intent behind who we pray to does her god look at In addition to her actions?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Correct. As I have said, Christ came to save people from their sin, not in their sin. No sin is any better or worse than another they are all wrong. Christ didn't say "just say no". What many people miss is that he promised guidance and help in defeating sin in ones life, the indwelling Spirit. It wouldn't be much use if he said "cut it out" when he knew humanity's human nature wouldn't allow that to happen

That means those you seen change could be straight too.

Why do christians think gay, lesbian, and bi people should changed when a lot of us have better things to do than roll in bed with someone else?

 

[shmogie]

And pedophilia continues to be prevalent and even condoned in many middle eastern countries and in Africa. Children are slated to be 'married' as young as 10 or 12. That is pedophilia, in a nut shell. I know of no children that age who have the cognitive or emotional stability or even physicality to be able to understand and participate in marriage.

Yes, and islam promotes pedophilia in it's holy books. Mohammad married a 6 year old girl, but was so kind as to not have sex with her till she was 9. I am utterly amazed at how this evil belief system is given a pass in so many circles

 

[SkepticThinker]

The Hebrews and Jews of Christ's time knew exactly what it meant, and same sex pairings were treated with total contempt or death in the Jewish culture. He says quite clearly he knows the number of feathers on a sparrow, and the number of hairs on your head. So he obviously takes a personal interest in each of us. Its interesting that you speak of Odin, whose followers were conquered by Christianity, and now are being conquered by the satanic moslems. I have no concern about what homosexuals get up to in the world, it means nothing to me. My concern is only with What occurs in the Church

How could you possibly know that?

 

[shmogie]

That means those you seen change could be straight too.

Why do christians think gay, lesbian, and bi people should changed when a lot of us have better things to do than roll in bed with someone else?

Most Christians believe that Christians should stop doing homosexual sex acts, as well as stop lying, swearing committing adultery, cheating, racism, treating people differently than how they want to be treated, watching porn, abusing women, abusing children, battering their husbands and wives, exploiting people for financial gain, etc., etc. et. al.

 

[shmogie]

How could you possibly know that?

3,000 years of history

 

[SkepticThinker]

From the Biblical perspective, homosexuality is defined as an action. Paul doesn't say "they thought this" or "are that", he describes clearly the actions that are condemned. I had a cousin that had distinct homosexual proclivities, by his choice he became a Christian, by his faith, he clearly understood the Biblical admonitions, and by his choice he lived the rest of his life celibate. Whatever he might "have been" is irrelevant, he didn't commit the actions. He finished his race, and won the prize. He and I were close friends, and I have hope that I will see him again, I know he resides in the kingdom now, it is for me to finish the race and keep the faith.,

But in actuality, it's not. So maybe the writers didn't have all the answers on the subject after all.

 

[SkepticThinker]

3,000 years of history

That means you can read the minds of a couple of people who lived thousands of years ago?

Come on.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I can't offer an explanation, I am not God. I wish I could.

That's not a very good answer. When you keep going on about how god changes people, that you have so much confidence in it, but then you have nothing when that position is challenged.

 

[shmogie]

That's not a very good answer. When you keep going on about how god changes people, that you have so much confidence in it, but then you have nothing when that position is challenged.

It is what it is

 

[shmogie]

That means you can read the minds of a couple of people who lived thousands of years ago?

Come on.

I have no idea of what you are trying to say. I don';t have to read minds, "it is written"

 

[shmogie]

But in actuality, it's not. So maybe the writers didn't have all the answers on the subject after all.

it is what it is

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It is what it is

It is what it is. It's not even unheard for counseling centers/therapists to consider such a mentality a negative mentality, a self-defeating attitude, or as I've also seen, a "lie that Americans believe."

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Most Christians believe that Christians should stop doing homosexual sex acts, as well as stop lying, swearing committing adultery, cheating, racism, treating people differently than how they want to be treated, watching porn, abusing women, abusing children, battering their husbands and wives, exploiting people for financial gain, etc., etc. et. al.

Think about this; though youd disagree.

Homosexual acts in itself has no intent. Its just an action like my picking up a pen.

All of these are defined by their intent:

Lying (Intent to avoid the truth)
Swearing (intent to insult someone)
Committing adultery (intent to have sex outside of marriage for whatever reason)

You cant lie if there is no truth to tell
You cant swear if its not a word said in a deflamatory way
Its not cheating if the wive aproves of the other woman
Its not abuse if there is concent

And so forth.

My point is because it is defined by intent, it is wrong.

Homosexual and heterosexual acts are not defined by intent. I can roll in bed the same as my picking up this phone. Reason? No. Just because.

THAT (emphasis) type of homosexual act is not in the bible. Why? Because there is no intention.

The acts are Only wrong and wrong (as with lying, cheating etc)

When done out of promiscuity and lustful actions. No where in the Bible are homosexual acts condemned without it being backed up by the intent tht condemns it.

On the other hand

While you cant lie if there is no truth and you cant abuse if there is concent, you can have sex without motive: that isnt in the bible, sex without motive.

A lot of gay, lesbian, and bi people have sex without the motives defined in the bible. It is based on matrimony, commitment, spiritual bonding, and unconditional love. It is not separate from the actions and it is not in the bible.

Homosexual actions + intent to lust is condemned in scripture

Homosexual acts + intent to love in holy matrimony is not condemned in scripture.

The latter is just not mentioned.

Find a scripture on homosexual sex that is isolated from being defined and condemned for its motive and intent.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Yes, and islam promotes pedophilia in it's holy books. Mohammad married a 6 year old girl, but was so kind as to not have sex with her till she was 9. I am utterly amazed at how this evil belief system is given a pass in so many circles

Was Mary in her 40s or something? No?

 

[leibowde84]

You are correct, sin is sin, one is no better nor worse than another

Just out of curiosity, do you consider marriage under the law, not recognized by any church (couple of atheists, let's say) is real marriage?

 

[shmogie]

Just out of curiosity, do you consider marriage under the law, not recognized by any church (couple of atheists, let's say) is real marriage?

Yes

 

[leibowde84]

Yes

If the same couple is same-sex, but recognized under law, you would not consider that real marriage? Since they aren't believers and aren't asking for approval from God, you must have reasoning external to scripture, right? What is that reasoning?

 

[shmogie]

I guess that pesky commandment about thou shalt not murder is being tossed out with the bath water? Things such as : Exodus 20; 13 “You shall not murder. Or Leviticus 24; 17
“Whoever takes a human life shall surely be put to death".
Of course, it does say in Exodus 32: “Thus says the Lord God, ‘Put every man his sword by his side, slay every man his brother, his companion and neighbor."
Now, one could ask, why the contradictory verses? My favorite analogy comes from a Christian apologist, Kyle Butt (I cannot help but laugh at his name in this instance, sorry).
He says: " The original readers understood that the commandment in Exodus 20:13 did not mean that all killing was wrong, including capital punishment. They understood that certain qualifications, as are detailed in the rest of the Law, put limits, restrictions, and allowances on the term “kill.” Barker would have us to believe that whoever wrote the book of Exodus was so ignorant that he did not catch contradictory statements that are separated by less than one chapter. Yet, such an idea is ridiculous in light of the remarkable accuracy and acumen of the Old Testament instructions"
http://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=13&article=2794

I don't think I have seen better tap dancing than this, even by Gregory Hines. So what are we to make of this contradiction? Does the Bible then have so many open interpretations in understanding to render it incomprehensible, and even to some regard, useless? Do we have permission to kill or do we not? This same contradictory analogy does not pertain to the issue of SSM, OTOH, because there is only ONE statement in the Bible, yet there is NO admonition that states one cannot be married to a same sex partner. One can say they assume that just because it is not mentioned that that means it is still prohibited. Why? We could also assume a great many things, were that the case, non?

Of course not. If homosexual sexual acts are condemned, then how can homosexual marriage be acceptable ? Heterosexual acts are not condemned at all, they are identified as adultery or fornication outside of marriage. If there was a verse that said " if a man lies with a woman he shall be killed"and there was not another statement to be found, how illogical is it to assume that since marriage between a man and woman isn't discussed, it must be acceptable ? It is a straw man, an argument based on vapor, 0+0=0. Just be honest and say I will do what I want, don't go to the absurd level that this argument sinks to

 

[viole]

Most Christians believe that Christians should stop doing homosexual sex acts, as well as stop lying, swearing committing adultery, cheating, racism, treating people differently than how they want to be treated, watching porn, abusing women, abusing children, battering their husbands and wives, exploiting people for financial gain, etc., etc. et. al.

May I ask why the commandment "do not kill" has not been issued more precisely with "do not kill, unless I tell you to"?

By the way. Do you really believe that God sanctioned the indiscriminate massacre of men, women and children (and pets)? Isn't that maybe more likely that the perps, of what today will put them behind bars forever or getting killed by a drone, did not make up a divinity that sanctioned their crimes?

Historically, classifying a certain human race as subhuman or irreversibly evil works wonder in overcoming human's natural empathy. We do not need to go too far in the past to see that. Add God sanction to the mix and there you have it.
A free moral pass to extermination.

And you worry about harmless gays just because the source of such "moral values" told you so?

Ciao

- viole