Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[JoStories]

You said (4221): There is no scripture that says it is okay but then does it say it is prohibited.

I agree. There is no scripture that says it (same-sex marriage?) and it does not say it is prohibited.

What are you disagreeing with?

My point: Can you prove that same-sex marriage is okay because it is not in the Bible? If so, from what source?

Carlita, IMO, saying what you did in the first part of this post, that I quoted above, is so dissimilar to the second quote, it negates the first. I don't need a source to prove that SSM is ok because it is not in the Bible. And why are you continuing to support this idea that because 'scripture' says that marriage is between a man and woman, and doesn't support SSM? I mean, honestly, so what? You say you don't agree but you have continued this argument for about 20 pages now. What is your agenda is doing this if you are not supporting the Christian ideal of marriage? Yes, I agree that we agree on several points in this, but each time, you revert back to defending the Bible and its position on marriage. Why is that? What do you need to prove here to us? I honestly don't get it.

 

[JoStories]

** True. I agree **

My point: That does not make it right according to scripture

My Question to you again (please answer): Why do you feel same-sex marriage is right according to scripture and if you do, by what do you base your answer on?

I gave my reason. What about yours?

(Dancing around my question here)

We have told you why so many times, I am about to have a bloody migraine. Why in the world are you still saying the same thing over and over again? Why do you have this need to support the Bible and what it says? It smacks of you still being a Christian, IMO. You have asked that highlighted question so many times, and we have answered it so many times that I simply cannot stand this anymore. I don't see what you are trying to prove here.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Looking at this thread it seems like basically it's the monotheists who have a problem with gays. Fortunately there are plenty of other less judgemental spiritual traditions to choose from.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Carlita, IMO, saying what you did in the first part of this post, that I quoted above, is so dissimilar to the second quote, it negates the first. I don't need a source to prove that SSM is ok because it is not in the Bible. And why are you continuing to support this idea that because 'scripture' says that marriage is between a man and woman, and doesn't support SSM? I mean, honestly, so what? You say you don't agree but you have continued this argument for about 20 pages now. What is your agenda is doing this if you are not supporting the Christian ideal of marriage? Yes, I agree that we agree on several points in this, but each time, you revert back to defending the Bible and its position on marriage. Why is that? What do you need to prove here to us? I honestly don't get it.

Originally it was a convo between Inglesdava and myself. I cant remember how it started. I made a statment. She disagreed. I told her my position. We kept going on. For some reason you joined in between maybe supporting her and I dont know why.

I honestly dont care that people try to say same-sex marriage is okay according to the bible just because it isnt there. When I was christian and had the problem with myself who may be married day, I really sat down with the priest and really talked about it with him from a biblical rather than personal interpretation and church tradition perspective.

We went in good detail (this was years back) and I studied the bible myself. I cant make the bible support same-sex marriage. I also cant change or throw out scripture that says marriage is between male and female.

What I can do is accept what the Bible says (accept not agree and believe) and leave it alone. Im not young anymore and have no time to change religious text I disagree with. I also find it wrong to apply my morals to something I disagree with.

This is just talking about scripture not about god. I do not believe god would deny same sex marriages "and" if the Bible (Quran or Torah) is god's word I cant change it anymore to fit my needs to a christian interpreting scripture to say jesus is god to fit his needs.

I honestly dont understand what your point is. I explained mine and I dont know what you disagree with.

Please say "I disagree.....this is why or how...."

Indirect questions or posting isolated quotes from my reply and commenting how it makes no sense doesnt tell me what you are saying originally and whats supporting your statement.

Thats RF for you. One other thing, just because I support something with evidence to back it doesnt mean I agreen with it. I have no indirect meanings or agenda.

I just want mutual underatanding. I hate cut off conversations, insults, and walking arou d my points.

***to you*** Please dont assume Im making this above as an indirect statement aimed at you.

I never do that with any of my posts. In general, I have pet peeves.

Thats why conversations go oonnnn forever because of misunderstanding, not wanting to get clarification, misreading or skiming through posts, and not caring what the other party says. If thatw the case, why debate?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

We have told you why so many times, I am about to have a bloody migraine. Why in the world are you still saying the same thing over and over again? Why do you have this need to support the Bible and what it says? It smacks of you still being a Christian, IMO. You have asked that highlighted question so many times, and we have answered it so many times that I simply cannot stand this anymore. I don't see what you are trying to prove here.

I dont see the answer--I read all posts unfortunately. I see questioning why my position and everytime Igles. does requestion it, I reply with the same thing and ask her the same question. I have no clue why you joined in this.

Also, I respect your opinion. I am not christian. Not all non-believers hate the bible or see it as illogical "according to itself." There is logic in it, its just it only supports itself and those who have faith in it.

A christian is someone who believes Jesus as Lord and Savior and believes he is saved from sin.

I have no inherited sin. I have a pure nature and have no need for salvation.

Christians believe that the bible is god's word.

God does not exist. So this means nothing to me

Christians believe that one must repent to be save.

What should I repent of? Really? My heart and soul are in the spirits of my ancestors and family. They (not god/s) are my foundation.

I need no other foundation but them and the earth I stand on.

Christanity does not agree with this and I Dont Care.

I love religion and if something doesnt make sense, in RF I have the freedom to point it out. Doesnt mean I agree just means the logic is missing

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@JoStories

Please respect my views and dont question my faith based on a unrelated conversation. The conversation says nothing about my belief. Thata not the topic.

I am telling you point blank; no agenda.

I not christian.

I HATE it when any one overlooks what I say about myself. I know myself better than anyone else. If no one agrees, so be it.

 

[Jon916]

Catholics and Muslims don't bring it into the public or face persecution or worse. The rest of the worlds religions also don't tolerate it much, or hide it if it exists.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The rest of the worlds religions also don't tolerate it much, or hide it if it exists.

Yet another false and easily disprovable statement that has made it's way onto this thread. Kind of along the lines of saying most societies have had a marriage that is first based upon our contemporary Western understanding of them and universally based upon a Conservative Christian model of a man and a woman.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I HATE it when any one overlooks what I say about myself. I know myself better than anyone else. If no one agrees, so be it.

It happens here a lot. If only I could get a dollar for every time someone has called me an atheist.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It happens here a lot. If only I could get a dollar for every time someone has called me an atheist.

Likewise with me, christian. We'd be rich.

 

[leibowde84]

** True. I agree **

My point: That does not make it right according to scripture

My Question to you again (please answer): Why do you feel same-sex marriage is right according to scripture and if you do, by what do you base your answer on?

I gave my reason. What about yours?

(Dancing around my question here)

I would say that scripture seems to side with loving, committed relationships.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I would say that scripture seems to side with loving, committed relationships.

Its not that scripture dont side with relationships. Just its specific with just marriage.

I mean, logically not morally I think of it like this:

EDIT: Analogy below

Scripture says: thou shall murder.

IF scripture did not mention to love each other at all, why would I assume murder is wrong when one, its not in scripture and two, it says the opposite?

My own interpretation (within the analogy) would be "just because it doesnt say love thy neightbor doesnt make it true we shoulent"

But the fact in his analogy it says "thou shall murder"

No matter how I personally disagree, why Logically not morally would I assume scripture says more than whats written in content and context?

Above is an analogy. I understand your point, though. No one answered yet why would I assume that isnt mentioned in context and content.

Eh.

 

[shmogie]

Which would make them idiots, - or people with a homophobic agendas. - as Qadesh means a Sacred Prostitute.

And the sin as shown by the Strong's definition - is IDOLATRY!

It is quite interesting that these words keep getting translated wrong - even though they OBVIOUSLY know the true meaning, - such as Your Christian Strong's which tells us the true meaning.

H6945 qâdêsh kaw-dashe'

From H6942; a (quasi) sacred person, that is, (technically) a (male) devotee (by prostitution) to licentious idolatry: - sodomite, unclean.

As you can see a Qadesh is a Sacred Prostitute - as I said, and showed, and does NOT mean a homosexual.

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And for arsenokoites I provided a source that actually studies Greek words

The Thesaurus Linguae Graecae. TLG has collected and digitized most literary texts written in Greek, from the 8th century BC to the fall of Byzantium in AD 1453. They have 73 references to the arsenokoit stem. There are NO early Greek uses of the word as “homosexual.”

This makes it very plain that arsenokoites does NOT mean homosexual sex. I have watched your nonsense here with the bold and colored type, and haven't responded because it was nonsense. I have the time now so I will expose your nonsense, as nonsense. Lets begin with your favorite word, arsenkoites. This is a very rare word in the earliest ancient Greek texts. Paul was comfortable with both Hebrew and Greek. Go to Leviticus 18: 22 It says "you shall not lie with a male as like a woman it is an abomination " Now Paul would have used the Septuigant version of the OT, translated in Greek, because he was the Apostle to the Gentiles, and most civilized society's used Greek. Here is the Septuigant literal translation in Greek." meta arsenos ou koimethese koiten gynaikos" Lev 18;22 Now look at Leviticus 20:13. " If a man lies with a man as like a woman, it is an abomination. They shall be put to death. The Septuigant Greek translation is " hos an koimethe meta arsenos koiten gynikos" Lev 20:13 See anything interesting ? I sure do. Arsen means in the Greek male, koites means a bed or couch with a sexual connotation. Paul created around thirty Greek terms, usually combining words to convey his thinking. He used two words in the Septuigant verses to condemn homosexuality in a single word, "arsenkoites" It has nothing to do with prostitution. Literally manbed with a sexual connotation. In the ancient texts, man can mean mankind or humanity so it can mean that he was speaking of female homosexuality as well. Since it is an inference, I won;t insist on it., The point is that Paul's readers knew exactly what he was talking about, as did the many learned scholars who have translated the Bible. The revisionist view, based upon a homosexual political agenda, is held by few respected linguists, translators, and scholars. The overwhelming majority hold to the correct translation. Another of your bizarre positions is idea that Christ didn';t say anything about homosexual marriage, so it must be A OK. He spoke of marriage between a man and woman a number of times. Your contention that he didn't condemn homosexual marriage is wrong, everything he said is not recorded in the Gospels. Since the Gospel writers were Jews, they knew what the OT said about homosexuality, a discussion about it or homosexual marriage wasn't required, it was unimaginable for them to even think about. Omission is not permission. Omission is omission for a reason. In John 16; 12-13 Christ says " I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot hear them now., However; when He, the Spirit of truth has come He will guide you in all truth". He was speaking to his Apostles, Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles, and because, unlike Jewish culture, the Gentiles practiced homosexuality, Paul spoke by the Spirit with the authority of Christ, to condemn it in the Christian community.

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[shmogie]

I would say that scripture seems to side with loving, committed relationships.

Scripture says what it says. Accept it or reject it, it says what it says

 

[leibowde84]

Scripture says what it says. Accept it or reject it, it says what it says

Nothing in scripture speaks to same-sex, committed and monogamous marriage though. That's the point.

 

[shmogie]

Nothing in scripture speaks to same-sex, committed and monogamous marriage though. That's the point.

See my post to

Nothing in scripture speaks to same-sex, committed and monogamous marriage though. That's the point.

See my post to the heathen Alaskan, all will be revealed. Why would scripture address something that didn't exist in the Jewish culture, had never existed, and Paul condemns homosexuality in Christians, certainly precluding marriage. Once again the Scriptures no where say anything about pedophilia, or marrying a goat, what do you conclude from that ?

 

[leibowde84]

See my post to

See my post to the heathen Alaskan, all will be revealed. Why would scripture address something that didn't exist in the Jewish culture, had never existed, and Paul condemns homosexuality in Christians, certainly precluding marriage. Once again the Scriptures no where say anything about pedophilia, or marrying a goat, what do you conclude from that ?

What does pedophilia or beastiality (both absent of consent) have to do with same-sex (consentual) marriage?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Scriptures no where say anything about pedophilia,

Probably because what we (we as in those of us alive today) consider pedophilia was a fairly common practice in ancient times.
To us, the tragedy of Juliet and Romeo isn't that they died, it's that our "celebrated star crossed lovers" involved a 13 year-old girl and a boy who isn't much older.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Nothing in scripture speaks to same-sex, committed and monogamous marriage though. That's the point.

Hmm. Maybe you can answer my repeated question to Jo and Isl. Does it make it right given it is not mentione? If so, what is that based on?

 

[Ingledsva]

** True. I agree **

My point: That does not make it right according to scripture

My Question to you again (please answer): Why do you feel same-sex marriage is right according to scripture and if you do, by what do you base your answer on?

I gave my reason. What about yours?

(Dancing around my question here)

I never said it was right according to scripture.

I said there are no verses against in the Bible, - thus one can't claim it is wrong, - or that it is a teaching of the Bible.

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