Is belief a choice?

[waitasec]

Well people seem to be pretty good at various forms of self hypnosis. Like telling yourself "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough and doggone it people like me!".

yep, one can surely manipulate themselves into believing anything...
the power is theirs.
if someone out side of yourself said those things and you didn't believe it, no one has the power to convince you except for you....

 

[Orias]

yep, one can surely manipulate themselves into believing anything...
the power is theirs.
if someone out side of yourself said those things and you didn't believe it, no one has the power to convince you except for you....

Reminds me of the Dimmu Borgir song, "Gateways".


"Realize that you are own soul creator, of your own master plant". The symphony in this song is hair raising.

 

[Sirktas]

Is belief a choice or is something that you don't have much control over? Now I'm not talking about freewill or anything like that. Is belief a decision you make?

You may choose what you believe. You believe what you perceive. I believe it is both.

There are many reasons one believes what they believe. I believe anyone possesses the decisive power to choose what principles they wish to abide by, but the nature of one’s personality has an inherent effect on those ‘rights and wrongs’.

Reminds me of the Dimmu Borgir song, "Gateways".

"Realize that you are own soul creator, of your own master plant". The symphony in this song is hair raising.

"Realize you are are your own sole creator, of your own master plan."

Lyrics, brah. I had to listen to Gateways. It was in my head all day.

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

Belief is just an opinion, not necessarily knowledge of evidence, just an opinion.

 

[idav]

Belief is just an opinion, not necessarily knowledge of evidence, just an opinion.

Some people seem to indicate that they don't have control over their own opinion.

 

[Thief]

I BELIEVE......belief is a matter of choice.

And as noted by someone else earlier in this thread....
some of these terms we are discussing seem a little vague.

So...if belief is a matter of faith...and faith requires not proving....
you are free to believe anything at all.

But let's add a drop of logic to that....and let's use something we all, have seen here at the forum....life after death.

Proving it, would be difficult.
There is little interaction between this world and the next....
and proving interaction is a bit of a trick.

Therefore....choose.
Having made that choice, further logic can be applied.

Are you top of the line life form?...no one greater than yourself?
Is there a God?

Choose.

And the consequence will await you.
Such is faith.

 

[sojourner]

I am sick parents indoctrinating their children. I was indoctrinated, and now that I am an adult I can say with assurance I would have never chosen Catholicism or even Christianity for that matter. I was raised with the bible, the new american bible, and was fairy familiar with it, in fact I even mesmerized all the books names including the apocrypha. I had never engaged in unguided reading of it though.

The sick sick stuff that was being taught to me by my loved ones makes me wish horrible things on them, until I realize the same thing was done to them. I couldn't even make it past genesis.

I can't say this enough children are not capable of making a decision to live their life according to this book. They are not capable of doing such a thing. They do not know the true nature of their actions or how they effect the world around them. This is a form of rape. I was raped in this way.

I do not believe in a god, nor would I have ever, but now I have the fears and guilt of this Christianity in me. I don't think I might ever get rid of it. I know the Truth now at least though.

If you love your children let them choose.

I'm sorry your experience was so bad, but not every parent does that. One of the things parents do is to develop their children culturally and socially. That's not "indoctrination." Even in a society where individualism is prized, there must be some conformity of thought and action, or else we'd have anarchy. Even within the United States, we understand that personal freedom takes place within the confines of structured behavioral norms.

If I'm reading you correctly, then, by extending the thought, any sort of teaching would be considered "indoctrination." Why would a parent telling their kids "God's not real" be considered any less of an "indoctrination?" In what way would telling a student, "Abraham Lincoln was a good president" not be "indoctrination?"

If you love your children, then they must be guided until they are capable of making informed decisions.

 

[sojourner]

Belief is just an opinion, not necessarily knowledge of evidence, just an opinion.

I think belief is more than just "opinion." Belief takes into consideration how one perceives one's place in the world, and how one perceives the world around one. That involves far more than "opinion." "Opinion" is some thought or feeling attached to a concept. Belief is closer to the concept, itself.

 

[sojourner]

I BELIEVE......belief is a matter of choice.

And as noted by someone else earlier in this thread....
some of these terms we are discussing seem a little vague.

So...if belief is a matter of faith...and faith requires not proving....
you are free to believe anything at all.

I think you've assumed a couple of fallacies here. First of all, I'm not so sure belief is a matter of choice. It's more a matter of perception. Second, Belief isn't a matter of "faith." It's a matter of perception. Perception really doesn't have much to do with choice.

 

[waitasec]

I think belief is more than just "opinion." Belief takes into consideration how one perceives one's place in the world, and how one perceives the world around one. That involves far more than "opinion." "Opinion" is some thought or feeling attached to a concept. Belief is closer to the concept, itself.

people choose to be willfully ignorant too.

 

[Acim]

I think you've assumed a couple of fallacies here. First of all, I'm not so sure belief is a matter of choice. It's more a matter of perception. Second, Belief isn't a matter of "faith." It's a matter of perception. Perception really doesn't have much to do with choice.

Unexamined perception doesn't have much to do with choice.

As noted in another thread, beliefs are composed ideas or thoughts, formulated to identify and/or understand something.

A belief could be formulated with what may, rather easily, appear as low level awareness. Like in my night dreams, I may believe President Obama needs me to fly to Washington to accept an award for greatest truth teller in the nation. I wake up to realize I'm not actually up for that award (though I should be). I can tell myself, rather easily, that I had no choice in that belief, but that assertion comes from, I would say, lack of self examination, lack of awareness of who I am, or who I was then (in the dream).

It seems to me that we think concepts like "belief" and "opinion" stand on their own, and are 'completely different' from knowledge or faith. I believe all these are thoughts and are derived from a knowledge we still have, pretend not to have, think we are working toward, searching for, currently lacking, and that belief(s) are wholly distinct from what is rather universal.

Belief is more like a thread of a enormously large tapestry, where some beliefs are made of 'material' that dissolves over time, and fades into larger pattern.

 

[sojourner]

people choose to be willfully ignorant too.

I don't think that's the same as "belief." "Willful ignorance" is "willful ignorance." "Belief" is "belief."

 

[waitasec]

I don't think that's the same as "belief." "Willful ignorance" is "willful ignorance." "Belief" is "belief."

if one chooses not to know they chose to continue with their chosen belief.

 

[waitasec]

I think you've assumed a couple of fallacies here. First of all, I'm not so sure belief is a matter of choice. It's more a matter of perception. Second, Belief isn't a matter of "faith." It's a matter of perception. Perception really doesn't have much to do with choice.

if belief is a matter of perception,
then people shouldn't be held accountable for any wrong doing done in the name of their belief....

 

[Draka]

I will simply restate that if belief is a choice you can choose to believe something else at any time. I cannot choose to be Christian. Unless an atheist can up and choose to believe in Christ, or a Christian can just choose to suddenly not believe in Jesus and instead believe in Odin, or a Muslim can just choose to believe in Dagda, belief is not just a matter of choice. There's more to it than that. Choice implies equal options. Choice implies that more isn't required to make one believe in something. Choice belittles belief.

 

[waitasec]

if you look outside your window and the ground all around you is wet...
do you choose to believe that it rained based on the evidence of a wet ground?
and if you call your friend on the phone and asked them if it rained and they said yes it did, is this choice to believe it rained based on a perception or empirical truth?

what do you think it is that persuades one to believe it rained?

 

[sojourner]

if one chooses not to know they chose to continue with their chosen belief.

No, they continue to believe what they believe. I know that my beliefs have changed with further input. Had I chosen not to know those things, my beliefs would have not changed, but the choice was not to "believe something," the choice was to "not know something."

 

[Tarheeler]

I wasn't trying to assume where the belief came from, I was throwing out various places it might come from including possible scriptural interpretation or beliefs that god is a certain type of god. Even if there are different interpretations people will choose what sounds more logical whether using only the bible or including knowledge and experience outside the bible. When someone tells you that you inherit the sins of your parents or the first humans on earth, it could just be something as simple as common sense that tells you otherwise.

But you still haven't shown where choice comes in.

Even of all beliefs were based solely on evidence, there is still the question of whether or not you can choose to accept it. And I don't think we can.

 

[waitasec]

No, they continue to believe what they believe.

all while knowing they don't want to know...that is a choice.

I know that my beliefs have changed with further input.

how?

Had I chosen not to know those things, my beliefs would have not changed,

exactly..you chose to. had you not chosen your beliefs would not have changed

but the choice was not to "believe something," the choice was to "not know something."

i think we know if we choose to know more, we change our beliefs...
some beliefs are better left unchanged for some.

 

[idav]

But you still haven't shown where choice comes in.

Even of all beliefs were based solely on evidence, there is still the question of whether or not you can choose to accept it. And I don't think we can.

I'm sure there are things coming from our subconscious that essentially steer our decision. Even if it is coming from our subconscious, belief is still a conscious decision IMO. Belief can be with or without evidence but even with people telling us their own opinions, at the end of the day we believe what we want.