Is belief in ghosts compatible with the Christian faith, or other religions?

[fallingblood]

Didn't Jesus say to throw out the old law? I don't think the OT is a representation of Christianity at all, including the god it presents.

If one is to read Matthew, Jesus specifically states that he is not here to throw out the law but to fulfill it. According to Matthew, Jesus states that his followers have to keep the laws even better then the regular Jews are.

Paul also, to a point, considered that one could not throw out the OT (which actually didn't even exist during that time, so it would be better to say the Torah). Paul was a Jew, and he remained a Jew. The Jesus Movement was, primarily to begin with, a Jewish movement. There is the suggestion that the full law does not need to be kept, mainly because of the circumstances and what is considered the new covenant (which is actually why the call it the New Testament), but it wasn't until later that the old laws were considered to be able to throw out, as in closer to the second century.

 

[Draka]

Didn't Jesus say to throw out the old law? I don't think the OT is a representation of Christianity at all, including the god it presents.

First off, no, he didn't. Second, are you saying that what was written in the OT never happened? It was all a lie? Besides, belief in ghosts wasn't a "law" in the OT anyway. Ghosts were mentioned as real beings able to be called forth. Now, unless you want to say that the entire OT was made up fairy tale to be totally disregarded, then you are simply cherry picking to suit your purpose. A dishonest tactic through and through.

 

[crystalonyx]

First off, no, he didn't. Second, are you saying that what was written in the OT never happened? It was all a lie? Besides, belief in ghosts wasn't a "law" in the OT anyway. Ghosts were mentioned as real beings able to be called forth. Now, unless you want to say that the entire OT was made up fairy tale to be totally disregarded, then you are simply cherry picking to suit your purpose. A dishonest tactic through and through.

The argument that a ghost is mentioned in the OT (or anywhere else) means ghost-belief is compatible with Christianity is fallacious anyway. Christianity has evolved over time, there never was any automatic "acceptance" of "ghosts walking the earth belief" by any denomination that I'm aware of. To patently say it is compatible with Christian belief, with no real evidence to back it up, is absurd.

 

[logician]

The argument that a ghost is mentioned in the OT (or anywhere else) means ghost-belief is compatible with Christianity is fallacious anyway. Christianity has evolved over time, there never was any automatic "acceptance" of "ghosts walking the earth belief" by any denomination that I'm aware of. To patently say it is compatible with Christian belief, with no real evidence to back it up, is absurd.

They are using the same arguments over and over that don't hold water. The god of the NT is nothing like the god of the old, the relationships beteen the old and new Testaments were largely contrived by the unknolwn gospel writers to pretend to "fulfill" some prophecies of the OT, that were meant for their time, not hundreds of years later.

 

[fallingblood]

The argument that a ghost is mentioned in the OT (or anywhere else) means ghost-belief is compatible with Christianity is fallacious anyway. Christianity has evolved over time, there never was any automatic "acceptance" of "ghosts walking the earth belief" by any denomination that I'm aware of. To patently say it is compatible with Christian belief, with no real evidence to back it up, is absurd.

To say that they are incompatible, with no real evidence to back it up, is also absurd. Christianity has evolved over time; however, never has there ever been something in Christianity stating that the belief in ghosts is incompatible.

It has yet to be proven, and no evidence has been placed accept dictating what Christians can and cannot believe.

 

[fallingblood]

They are using the same arguments over and over that don't hold water. The god of the NT is nothing like the god of the old, the relationships beteen the old and new Testaments were largely contrived by the unknolwn gospel writers to pretend to "fulfill" some prophecies of the OT, that were meant for their time, not hundreds of years later.

Maybe you should do some actual research on the birth of Christianity. Christianity started off as Jewish movement. The Old Testament, as we know of today, was not even formed while Christianity was first forming.

Yes, some writers searched the scriptures (does not mean the Old Testament) in order to have Jesus fulfill prophecies, but there was much more to it than that. The scriptures were used by many early Christians, as well as Christian writers for more then just prophecies. The Epistles, and other early Christian writers mention the scriptures, referring to the Jewish scriptures (some of which did end up being in the Old Testament) in order to support their messages.

You've taken one small portion of history and exaggerated it to a point that it can not be considered true.

 

[Brother2]

There is no such thing as the dead appearing as ghosts..........rather Lucifer and his legions of demons impersonating same. Same as those who remember past lives under hypnosis, the devil knows all about the history of individuals so can easily play the personation game.

We throw the balls over to the other side but who is throwing them back? The father of lies!

May God bless all here. Shalom. brother2.

 

[logician]

To say that they are incompatible, with no real evidence to back it up, is also absurd. Christianity has evolved over time; however, never has there ever been something in Christianity stating that the belief in ghosts is incompatible.

It has yet to be proven, and no evidence has been placed accept dictating what Christians can and cannot believe.

Quite the oppostie, there never has been ANYTHING stating that beleif in ghosts is compatible with Christianity, and PLENTY of people of the Christian heirarchy saying it was incompatible, and NOT to even pursue any practices related to "ghost summoning" etc. You are sitting on the wrong side of the fence on this one, my friend, especially in this day and time when many, many churches are shunning anything relating to ghost belief completely.:snoopy:

 

[Draka]

Does it even occur to you that they would have to believe in the existence of ghosts to say not to summon them? Just like the whole witchcraft thing. One would have to believe in it in order to say don't do it.

 

[McBell]

Does it even occur to you that they would have to believe in the existence of ghosts to say not to summon them? Just like the whole witchcraft thing. One would have to believe in it in order to say don't do it.

What?
Logic?
You got to be kidding!!

 

[logician]

What?
Logic?
You got to be kidding!!

No logic here.:no:

 

[logician]

Does it even occur to you that they would have to believe in the existence of ghosts to say not to summon them? Just like the whole witchcraft thing. One would have to believe in it in order to say don't do it.

This is quite an illogical statement, one(or a group) does not have to believe in something to say not to do it. It's quite likely they think that trying to conjure up ghosts will instead conjure up demons. In any case I must have missed the memo from the Vatican (or any other church group) that belief in earthly ghosts is approved by the church.

 

[Draka]

This is quite an illogical statement, one(or a group) does not have to believe in something to say not to do it. It's quite likely they think that trying to conjure up ghosts will instead conjure up demons. In any case I must have missed the memo from the Vatican (or any other church group) that belief in earthly ghosts is approved by the church.

Yeah...uh huh...sure. Ok, now it's "likely" they actually believe something else. Even if some do believe in demons, some believe it's ghosts. Hello, ghosts are mentioned in the bible outright. It only makes sense then that some christians would logically believe in ghosts. Just as it was a big "no-no" to summon ghosts...King Saul purposely went to a witch in order to have a ghost summoned. WHY would summoning ghosts be a "no-no"...and use words such as ghosts and spirits of the dead, IF the existence of such things weren't acknowledged? Actually, quite simply, by forbidding something you are acknowledging its existence. You don't forbid magic if you don't believe it is real and acknowledge its existence. You don't forbid divination if you don't believe one can actually contact spirits/ghosts and they are real.

 

[fallingblood]

Quite the oppostie, there never has been ANYTHING stating that beleif in ghosts is compatible with Christianity, and PLENTY of people of the Christian heirarchy saying it was incompatible, and NOT to even pursue any practices related to "ghost summoning" etc. You are sitting on the wrong side of the fence on this one, my friend, especially in this day and time when many, many churches are shunning anything relating to ghost belief completely.:snoopy:

Can you provide some sources for those people in the Christian hierarchy who said it was incompatible? If so, that would greatly help your argument.

However, if they don't believe in ghosts, why tell people not to summon something they don't believe in. That seems quite illogical.

 

[logician]

Can you provide some sources for those people in the Christian hierarchy who said it was incompatible? If so, that would greatly help your argument.

However, if they don't believe in ghosts, why tell people not to summon something they don't believe in. That seems quite illogical.

Try reading for comprehension, they don't believe in ghosts, they believe in demons, they forbid seances etc. because they believe demons will be summoned, NOT earthly spirits.

 

[logician]

Yeah...uh huh...sure. Ok, now it's "likely" they actually believe something else. Even if some do believe in demons, some believe it's ghosts. Hello, ghosts are mentioned in the bible outright. It only makes sense then that some christians would logically believe in ghosts. Just as it was a big "no-no" to summon ghosts...King Saul purposely went to a witch in order to have a ghost summoned. WHY would summoning ghosts be a "no-no"...and use words such as ghosts and spirits of the dead, IF the existence of such things weren't acknowledged? Actually, quite simply, by forbidding something you are acknowledging its existence. You don't forbid magic if you don't believe it is real and acknowledge its existence. You don't forbid divination if you don't believe one can actually contact spirits/ghosts and they are real.

Ditto.:beach:

 

[Draka]

Try reading for comprehension, they don't believe in ghosts, they believe in demons, they forbid seances etc. because they believe demons will be summoned, NOT earthly spirits.

Why don't you take your own advice and read AND comprehend for once? Your name is quite the oxymoron when people take into account your posts and arguments, you know that? :areyoucra It was quite clear that Samuel was NOT a demon. He was a spirit in earthly form...a ghost. And unless you claim that Moses and Elijah were demons, and Jesus made a habit of conversing with demons in the presence of god...then they were ghosts too. You really are a brickwall aren't you?

 

[James Humphreys]

Why don't you take your own advice and read AND comprehend for once? Your name is quite the oxymoron when people take into account your posts and arguments, you know that? :areyoucra It was quite clear that Samuel was NOT a demon. He was a spirit in earthly form...a ghost. And unless you claim that Moses and Elijah were demons, and Jesus made a habit of conversing with demons in the presence of god...then they were ghosts too. You really are a brickwall aren't you?

Some Christians believe that the spirit claiming to be Samuel, was in fact not him, but rather a demon. I disagree with them though, and as you mentioned before, at the very least it shows that belief in ghosts was common among the Israelites at that time.

When Jesus first appeared to his disciples together in a closed room, their first impression was that they had seen a ghost. So, that would seem to indicate that belief in ghosts was common at the time of Jesus as well.

 

[Draka]

Some Christians believe that the spirit claiming to be Samuel, was in fact not him, but rather a demon. I disagree with them though, and as you mentioned before, at the very least it shows that belief in ghosts was common among the Israelites at that time.

When Jesus first appeared to his disciples together in a closed room, their first impression was that they had seen a ghost. So, that would seem to indicate that belief in ghosts was common at the time of Jesus as well.

Thank you. :yes:

 

[McBell]

No logic here.:no:

We finally agree.
I mean, you left logic behind back on the first page of this thread.
Since then you just been blowing smoke out your arse.