Is Christ superior to other Prophets/Founders

[Exaltist Ethan]

@loverofhumanity

There's a two-fold to this.

1 - Krishna, Muhammad, Jesus, Buddha, Baha'u'llah and others are considered prophets and are held very high esteem to many people.

2 - Christianity is by far the largest and the world's most influential religion.

Even most atheists and agnostics agree that Jesus existed and was a good person. Data on the other prophets is more scarce.

So, to answer the initial question of the thread, I would argue that he isn't superior of a prophet to me but he is a superior prophet to many other people.

But I would argue that the prophets aren't any more superior to normal people either, but that belief is a topic of a different debate.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

This question to me has been a huge cause of strife, disunity and even war. All the great Teachers/Prophets (Buddha, Muhammad, Krishna etc) in history taught spirituality. So in my mind They are all equal with regards to this purpose.

But many Christians , clinging to one or two verses, fanatically assert Christ’s superiority and that other religions are ‘Satan inspired’ and their founders - false prophets. Do you agree with this?

Krishna and Buddha are revered by their followers and were well before the time of Christ yet no mention is made in the Bible that Krishna or Buddha are from Satan. And as the Bible is claimed to be God’s Word and God is All Knowing, no mention either that Muhammad, the Bab or Baha’u’llah are false Prophets. So where is the Bible stating all these other religions are false according to Christians.

There are verses where Christ says He is the beginning and the end but so too did Krishna say the same thousands of years before Christ appeared. So why the insistence on Jesus being superior when if anything Jesus taught love above anything else. Why is supremacy so important to so many Christians?

Well, He's God, so yes.

 

[Apostle John]

Oh, that's easy: it's by magic poofing.

I bet you founded this forum like some of the other speciality ones I decided to join. He has a big database of characters on the first one I joined, he can switch in and out of in an instance.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

You know the story of George Washington's hatchet at a garage sale?
The handle was replaced three tine. The head twice, otherwise all original.

There was a man who was not named Jesus
who wasn't born in a manger or on Dec 25,
or any known year.
Nobody knows when he died, nobody recorded
anything he may have said or done.
( Verbatim quotes "remembered" decades later,
fiction like nativity scene , earthquake and zombies when he died, daemons sent into pigs
etc are not exactly "records").

The supposed sayings read like the folk
wisdom of the day; a common style across
many cultures, attributing such to a great
teacher.

So yeah- the pearl of Christianity grew around the "grain of sand"! Jesus- but you
cannot see what was real in him anymore.

The obvious fiction in the OT ( like " flood")
or NT (three wise men etc) does nothing for
the credibility of any of it.

Regardless (I'm an atheist), Christians tend to believe in a divine Christ, and not so much in other Gods.
That was my only point.

 

[Father Heathen]

It is humanly impossible to invent the Bible as it is known today, without God instructing it’s authors over 1400 years, proven by archaeology etc., then the church fathers. The story is too elaborate and intricate for the human mind to invent and so must be true. This is what sets it apart from all religious texts.

Nope, it's a rather sloppy, inconsistent mess rife with contradictions, inaccuracies, and absurdities.

 

[Audie]

@loverofhumanity

There's a two-fold to this.

1 - Krishna, Muhammad, Jesus, Buddha, Baha'u'llah and others are considered prophets and are held very high esteem to many people.

2 - Christianity is by far the largest and the world's most influential religion.

Even most atheists and agnostics agree that Jesus existed and was a good person. Data on the other prophets is more scarce.

So, to answer the initial question of the thread, I would argue that he isn't superior of a prophet to me but he is a superior prophet to many other people.

But I would argue that the prophets aren't any more superior to normal people either, but that belief is a topic of a different debate.

Various people existed.
The guy you refer to wasn't named Jesus.
Good? Who knows.
If people thought he was a " healer" and
he encouraged that, that's not cool.
He got his followers into a lot of trouble.

What of his said- to- teachings is anything new?

 

[lukethethird]

I have been on topic Christ is founder and part of the Triune God who the Bible says upholds the world. So a simple question that you supposed realists still struggle to answer is how atoms form molecules form dna form consciousness without a chemist or Creator still goes unanswered. It is said Chris Hitchens was an effective debater but I doubt he could answer this question without babbling.

What does any of this have to do with reality? You are reading from a story book and appear to be applying it to the real world, what's with that? You might be standing on the ground but your head is in the clouds.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

Various people existed.
The guy you refer to wasn't named Jesus.

Okay, technically his name was Yeshua of Nazareth.

Good? Who knows.
If people thought he was a " healer" and
he encouraged that, that's not cool.
He got his followers into a lot of trouble.

Yet there is freedom of religion in many societies now and one can practice any religion they deem fit for their life. He *did* get his followers into trouble, but legally you cannot be held in trouble for a religious belief you have in many of the nations that still support Christ and what he means to them.

What of his said- to- teachings is anything new?

Nothing, but he popularized the concept and then used parables and other sayings and suggestions to influence people more to forgive others for their shortcomings. I'm trying to do the same thing with my syntheist views, encouraging the influence and popularization of said beliefs, unfortunately not much of it is sticking with other people. If Baruch Spinoza is to pantheism as I am to syntheism, I'll be happy, but unfortunately most people ignore my ideas and choose to live a life of the ignorance that they too are creating the divinity in God.

 

[lukethethird]

Okay, technically his name was Yeshua of Nazareth.



Yet there is freedom of religion in many societies now and one can practice any religion they deem fit for their life. He *did* get his followers into trouble, but legally you cannot be held in trouble for a religious belief you have in many of the nations that still support Christ and what he means to them.



Nothing, but he popularized the concept and then used parables and other sayings and suggestions to influence people more to forgive others for their shortcomings. I'm trying to do the same thing with my syntheist views, encouraging the influence and popularization of said beliefs, unfortunately not much of it is sticking with other people. If Baruch Spinoza is to pantheism as I am to syntheism, I'll be happy, but unfortunately most people ignore my ideas and choose to live a life of the ignorance that they too are creating the divinity in God.

We are free to practice religion but what is the point of it? Gods don't exist in real life no matter what people care to believe, so why?

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

We are free to practice religion but what is the point of it?

To create the divinity of God. Many religions are generous and hold spiritual knowledge. Religion, just like every institution in our society, builds upon itself a better society and more acknowledgeable people who are more self-aware and care about others. If that isn't divinity incarnate, I don't know what is.

Gods don't exist in real life no matter what people care to believe, so why?

There is so much divinity in the common person that we fail to recognize. I am not saying that there is a focal point which all the divinity is located, as entropy has proven to me that divinity is spread far out and wide, but we can use our own emergent properties to build a society that has more divinity in it now that it has in the past, making our lives easier, safer and more just for everybody to enjoy. There is more divinity on Earth alone then there is in the entire rest of the solar system we occupy.

People are losing hope, and faith, that we can not only change ourselves but the world around us too. We must help them realize that they have unique properties that solely make them human, divine traits that only our species can fully understand. I am not an atheist, nor am I an anti-theist. I am a pantheist and a syntheist. I often say that we are creating God, but the truth is, we are creating God's divinity, as science has proven that everything that has existed still exists in different, and I would contend, more unique and divine ways, than ever before.

 

[lukethethird]

To create the divinity of God. Many religions are generous and hold spiritual knowledge. Religion, just like every institution in our society, builds upon itself a better society and more acknowledgeable people who are more self-aware and care about others. If that isn't divinity incarnate, I don't know what is.



There is so much divinity in the common person that we fail to recognize. I am not saying that there is a focal point which all the divinity is located, as entropy has proven to me that divinity is spread far out and wide, but we can use our own emergent properties to build a society that has more divinity in it now that it has in the past, making our lives easier, safer and more just for everybody to enjoy. There is more divinity on Earth alone then there is in the entire rest of the solar system we occupy. People are losing hope, and faith, that we can not only change ourselves but the world around us too.

We must help them realize that they have unique properties that solely make them human, divine traits that only our species can fully understand. I am not an atheist, nor am I an anti-theist. I am a pantheist and a syntheist. I often say that we are creating God, but the truth is, we are creating God's divinity, as science has proven that everything that has existed still exists in different, and I would contend, more unique and divine ways, than ever before.

I would rather stick to reality. Religious terms are meaningless on so many levels made apparent by the fact that no one can have a clear understanding of what is meant by them simply because there is never any agreement from one person to the next as to what they mean. Contradictions abound. You say Jesus forgives, well, he does not appear to forgive non believers, in fact, quite the opposite.

 

[Audie]

Okay, technically his name was Yeshua of Nazareth.



Yet there is freedom of religion in many societies now and one can practice any religion they deem fit for their life. He *did* get his followers into trouble, but legally you cannot be held in trouble for a religious belief you have in many of the nations that still support Christ and what he means to them.



Nothing, but he popularized the concept and then used parables and other sayings and suggestions to influence people more to forgive others for their shortcomings. I'm trying to do the same thing with my syntheist views, encouraging the influence and popularization of said beliefs, unfortunately not much of it is sticking with other people. If Baruch Spinoza is to pantheism as I am to syntheism, I'll be happy, but unfortunately most people ignore my ideas and choose to live a life of the ignorance that they too are creating the divinity in God.

The "techically" bit appears to go a
lot deeper than the fanciful birth story
and name.

Freedom of religion is something Christians
long opposed. And is totally antithetical
to the faith.
Whether one can now have his arms pulled
off for not being Christian enough is irrelevant
to whether it's a "good" man who gets the
people who knew and trusted him in trouble.

"Jesus" popularized certain concepts?
How do you know that? He wasn't popular at the time. The ethics and morality he ( is said to
ha e) preached is nothing new.

We have the same basic values in China!
He did not popularize them here. I promise!

I'm not about to follow your ideas about
"divinity" nor see any misfortune in that,
rather the opposite really.

A lot of people follow Joseph Smith, and
tend to live exemplary lives in the faith.

So.....?

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

I would rather stick to reality.

I see reality for what it is and what it could be. The divinity of Earth is staggering to me. The diversity of life we have on this planet is astonishing. Being so lucky to be alive here and now is what fuels me and my drive to become more divine as time passes.

Religious terms are meaningless on so many levels made apparent by the fact that no one can have a clear understanding of what is meant by them simply because there is never any agreement from one person to the next as to what they mean. Contradictions abound.

Yes, and this is a good thing. The plurality of opinions of God and the divine helps us understand each and every part of it. We do not need to have a general consensus of the divine to understand what the divine means to ourselves and the ones we care about.

You say Jesus forgives, well, he does not appear to forgive non believers, in fact, quite the opposite.

Perhaps the one and only example that he did not forgive. In any case, I do not want to make the argument for Christ, as I myself am not a Christian.

Freedom of religion is something Christians
long opposed. And is totally antithetical
to the faith.

America was founded by religious puritans who wanted to establish the freedom of religion so they would stop being persecuted for supposedly having 'heretical' beliefs. Historically Christians have not always been for the freedom of religion but so hasn't many religions, so I don't know what point you are trying to get across.

"Jesus" popularized certain concepts?
How do you know that? He wasn't popular at the time. The ethics and morality he ( is said to
ha e) preached is nothing new.

It wasn't the concepts he popularized but the way he popularized them that is important. I can say that we are creating God's divinity all day but without explaining what that means, nobody is really going to know what I mean when I say that. Not only did Jesus explain that we need to forgive, he gave examples of parables and stories about how this is important in daily living, in ways that people could fully understand, yet left some mysticism for people to ponder about.

But again, I am not a Christian.

I'm not about to follow your ideas about
"divinity" nor see any misfortune in that,
rather the opposite really.

People believe what they want to believe. I cannot force you to believe or understand my concepts of divinity, but I do acknowledge the fact that by even having this debate with me, you are increasing the overall divinity of humans incrementally.

A lot of people follow Joseph Smith, and
tend to live exemplary lives in the faith.

So.....?

I am not a member of that church, but my best friend is. They seem like nice people whom I just disagree about their importance of Jesus in our lives.

 

[Audie]

I see reality for what it is and what it could be. The divinity of Earth is staggering to me. The diversity of life we have on this planet is astonishing. Being so lucky to be alive here and now is what fuels me and my drive to become more divine as time passes.



Yes, and this is a good thing. The plurality of opinions of God and the divine helps us understand each and every part of it. We do not need to have a general consensus of the divine to understand what the divine means to ourselves and the ones we care about.



Perhaps the one and only example that he did not forgive. In any case, I do not want to make the argument for Christ, as I myself am not a Christian.



America was founded by religious puritans who wanted to establish the freedom of religion so they would stop being persecuted for supposedly having 'heretical' beliefs. Historically Christians have not always been for the freedom of religion but so hasn't many religions, so I don't know what point you are trying to get across.



It wasn't the concepts he popularized but the way he popularized them that is important. I can say that we are creating God's divinity all day but without explaining what that means, nobody is really going to know what I mean when I say that. Not only did Jesus explain that we need to forgive, he gave examples of parables and stories about how this is important in daily living, in ways that people could fully understand, yet left some mysticism for people to ponder about.

But again, I am not a Christian.



People believe what they want to believe. I cannot force you to believe or understand my concepts of divinity, but I do acknowledge the fact that by even having this debate with me, you are increasing the overall divinity of humans incrementally.



I am not a member of that church, but my best friend is. They seem like nice people whom I just disagree about their importance of Jesus in our lives.

You see reality as it is? Then off you go
being astonished by "divinity" and claiming
scuence " proves" supportive things.

In the actual real world nothing is proved by science. Ever.

Your freedom of religion " founders" only wanted their own freedom I know my American
history too well to be taken in. The Constitution
makes guarantees but the Christians dont like
it. Such freedom is antithetical to christian beliefs. Simple.

Jesus did not go to China and we don't need his so- important popularizing parables.

Considering the Holy wars and 40 000
sects and the level of morality in the West
I'd say his popularizing was
partial and prefunctory.

We put them into practice better than
the west does.

I've all sorts of things I'd rather not
have to believe.

THAT is what it to see the world for
what it is.

Go ahead and believe what you want to believe.
I'm not following you in that foolishness, ever
Choosing to deceive yourself with
giddy made up nonsense like that my posts
Increase the divinity in the world,
is not sensible or, frankly, sane.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

You see reality as it is? Then off you go
being astonished by "divinity" and claiming
scuence " proves" supportive things.

I am sorry that you don't understand what and how I see what divinity is, but regardless, wouldn't you agree that there is something special here on this big blue rock? We could go on and on about what is divine, but I feel very fortunate to be living in this time and era which I can express my view points and understand yours too, and to me, that is divinity.

I am not saying you need to believe that divinity, but by having these discussions with you, I can fully understand myself and my positions on these issues better than had I argued with myself on them. Plus, this is a public forum which people can make up their own mind on what divinity is and what it means to them. I get it. You're an atheist who doesn't believe in divinity. But I'm not. I hope you can respect that.

Your freedom of religion " founders" only wanted their own freedom I know my American
history too well to be taken in. The Constitution
makes guarantees but the Christians dont like
it. Such freedom is antithetical to christian beliefs. Simple.

If you are trying to say that the majority of today's Christians don't believe in the fundamental right to freedom of religion, or insinuating that claim, I disagree with that notion completely. Freedom of religion, or the lack thereof, has nothing to do with Christianity.

Go ahead and believe what you want to believe.
I'm not following you in that foolishness, ever
Choosing to deceive yourself with
giddy made up nonsense like that my posts
Increase the divinity in the world,
is not sensible or, frankly, sane.

It's fine that you don't believe in God or divinity. I don't want to judge you simply for believing or disbelieving in anything, and all I ask is that you respect my space enough that you allow me to share my thoughts on these matters.

 

[CG Didymus]

Christ isn’t just a person to them, but often a path, a Weltanschauung, even a lifestyle. I completely understand where any feelings of superiority come from- not just in Christianity, but in other systems as well- where any person or culture who deeply resonates with their gods or prophets commits themselves to a way of life and believes it is what’s best for themselves or perhaps even for others.

I am the superior voice of my own religion. Christ is the superior voice within Christianity. Muhammad is the superior prophet for Muslims. Etc.

And by listening to Baha'is, Baha'u'llah is superior even though Baha'is will say that all the manifestation/messengers are equal. But because he is the latest one with the latest and most important message for the times we are living in, they make him the most important manifestation with the most important message.

And for those Christians who make Jesus superior? I think it is easy to see. For born-again Christians, the Jesus of the NT is superior. He is God to them. He is the one and only Savior. The only one who could pay the penalty for sin. For people that read all that and don't believe it, Jesus is not superior but more of a made-up myth and legend.

Baha'is have put themselves in the difficult position of saying they believe in the Bible and the NT and in Jesus, but they also say that about all the other religions. So, they can't have one prophet greater than another... except their own, and that's because he's supposedly the "end-time" prophet and the Promised One of all the religions that finally fulfills all the promises. Which means they can't have people going around saying that Jesus is superior.

 

[CG Didymus]

Christians can appreciate the beliefs of others but at the end of the day it is the differences which are important and which differentiate between truth and error.
It should not ever be superiority in the sense of me being superior to you, but the truth is always better than what is not true.

If Jesus did what it says he did in the NT, then he is more than superior. He is the Lord of Lords and Kings of Kings. For those of us that don't believe the NT, then Jesus is a myth. For Baha'is, Jesus is just one of several of their manifestations that had a temporary message and temporary teachings that were only meant for the people in those times. His teachings from God were only good up to the time of Muhammad.

As you know, they interpret the Bible and the NT in such a way to make Jesus less than what the Christian Scriptures make him out to be. They downplay the miracles and some Baha'is even say they are not literally true. Like with Jesus healing the blind or raising the dead. They'll say he healed their "'spiritual" blindness and raised them from being "spiritually" dead. Satan is not real, and Jesus didn't physically rise from the dead. And, for sure, he is not the one coming back. That would be their prophet, Baha'u'llah.

 

[lukethethird]

I see reality for what it is and what it could be. The divinity of Earth is staggering to me. The diversity of life we have on this planet is astonishing. Being so lucky to be alive here and now is what fuels me and my drive to become more divine as time passes.



Yes, and this is a good thing. The plurality of opinions of God and the divine helps us understand each and every part of it. We do not need to have a general consensus of the divine to understand what the divine means to ourselves and the ones we care about.



Perhaps the one and only example that he did not forgive. In any case, I do not want to make the argument for Christ, as I myself am not a Christian.



America was founded by religious puritans who wanted to establish the freedom of religion so they would stop being persecuted for supposedly having 'heretical' beliefs. Historically Christians have not always been for the freedom of religion but so hasn't many religions, so I don't know what point you are trying to get across.



It wasn't the concepts he popularized but the way he popularized them that is important. I can say that we are creating God's divinity all day but without explaining what that means, nobody is really going to know what I mean when I say that. Not only did Jesus explain that we need to forgive, he gave examples of parables and stories about how this is important in daily living, in ways that people could fully understand, yet left some mysticism for people to ponder about.

But again, I am not a Christian.

Divinity does not appear in any physics text book for a reason. The notion of divinity stems from magical thinking, non existent in reality. Divinity makes for good fiction and sometimes not so good fiction, it depends on how good the story teller is.

 

[CG Didymus]

Krishna is not a prophet. Please respect the Hindu view, and stop altering it to suit your agenda. (I have very low expectations.)

And that's a good point. For those Hindus that believe in Krishna, he is a God or the incarnation of a God. For some Christians, Jesus is God's only Son and The Messiah. But Baha'is can't have that. Those beliefs have to be wrong. So, Baha'is will say that the followers misinterpreted their own Scriptures or something like that. So, it's not like Krishna or Jesus aren't great and important. They just aren't Gods like their followers have come to believe. Isn't it funny that after all these years and threads, we're still talking about this stuff? And, of course, because Baha'is believe their teachings and message are superior, I'm sure it will continue.

 

[RestlessSoul]

We are free to practice religion but what is the point of it? Gods don't exist in real life no matter what people care to believe, so why?

We do it just to confuse atheists, and to give them a sense of purpose they would otherwise be without.