Is Equality Everyone Being Treated The Same?

[Songbird]

Indeed, though I know what type of women he's referencing. Just make them pay for dinner. It's always fun seeing the expression on their face.

Yeah, there are lots of spoiled, entitled folks out there.

Now get me some Pad Thai!

 

[Averroes]

Sigh*


This isn't about military vs Cops

All I am saying (I cannot believe I am repeating myself to adults) is that on paper, on paper folks, if I read the following:

Physical Requirements

Push Ups- Men 20 push ups in 1 min Women 10 push ups in 1 min 30 secs

Mile Run- Men 10 minutes Women 15 minutes

Is not equality.....

By the way the above are actual LAPD physical requirements.

 

[Averroes]

I disagree.

For one - you changed the reply to focus on physical requirements, when I was addressing your statement that "women want equal rights but not equal responsibility." I repeat, if you think that, you won't be able to understand what women, or anyone, want.

For another, see Kathryn's statement about the military, because I don't know it well enough to comment. Perhaps the physical requirements aren't an exact measure of a job's demands, but a sign of personal physical fitness which conveys qualities like stamina, responsibility, etc. In that case, tailoring it to reflect different signs of fitness based on gender may be the goal.

I can't say, though, because I'm not in the military and I'm not familiar with the reasons they have.

Because I use equality across the board assuming equality exist. Or are we discussing equality in specific arenas?

So assuming if equality ia universal I brought up the physical test.

Now all that tells me when I read the physical requirements, its merely saying that men are stronger and can do more, women are weaker and need a chance.

This isn't equality

 

[Alceste]

Because I use equality across the board assuming equality exist. Or are we discussing equality in specific areas of life?

So assuming if equality ia universal I brought up the physical test.

Now all that tells me when I read the physical requirements, its merely saying that men are stronger and can do more, women are weaker and need a chance.

This isn't equality

Not many things we do these days depend entirely on the number of pushups we can squeeze into a minute. If men can do more, why is it that in most families the women still do most of the housework even though they are also bringing home a paycheck?

 

[Averroes]

Not many things we do these days depend entirely on the number of pushups we can squeeze into a minute. If men can do more, why is it that in most families the women still do most of the housework even though they are also bringing home a paycheck?

(Puts face in palm)

Alceste you seem cool. I am a bit frustrated because I don't think people are getting my point.

This isn't about the physical test or who brings home the paycheck. All I am saying is that if equality is across thr board in a job like law enforcement why do men and women have different requirements?

 

[Kathryn]

(Puts face in palm)

Alceste you seem cool. I am a bit frustrated because I don't think people are getting my point.

This isn't about the physical test or who brings home the paycheck. All I am saying is that if equality is across thr board in a job like law enforcement why do men and women have different requirements?

Let me break it down to you.

I have four kids. I love all of them equally. I expect them all to conform to the rules of the household. I have some standards that are inflexible - like respect, cleanliness, neatness, finished homework - that sort of thing.

Within this household though, are different roles and tasks. Each child has their own skill set, and their own limitations. They are not equally suited to every task, but they ARE all equally able to conform to the inflexible standards.

It is unnecessary for the one who excels at cooking to be equally good at mowing the yard, and vice versa. The chef doesn't need to have the same upper body strength as the landscaper.

However, both must be equally respectful to me. If they are not, I may not even use the same form of discipline on both of them, though they will both be equally disciplined.

Equal doesn't mean exactly the same.

 

[Barcode]

Equal doesn't mean exactly the same.

According to Merriam-Webster's dictionary:

Definition of EQUALITY

1
: the quality or state of being equal




Then upon looking up the word "equal":


1
a (1) : of the same measure, quantity, amount, or number as another (2) : identical in mathematical value or logical denotation : equivalent

So if equality doesn't mean the same then by what, or whose definition are we going by?

 

[Kathryn]

According to Merriam-Webster's dictionary:

Definition of EQUALITY

1
: the quality or state of being equal




Then upon looking up the word "equal":


1
a (1) : of the same measure, quantity, amount, or number as another (2) : identical in mathematical value or logical denotation : equivalent

So if equality doesn't mean the same then by what, or whose definition are we going by?

e·qualnoun /ˈēkwəl/ 
equals, plural

1. A person or thing considered to be the same as another in status or quality
   • - we all treat each other as equals
   • - it was a day without equal in market history
   
   

adjective /ˈēkwəl/ 

1. Being the same in quantity, size, degree, or value
   • - add equal amounts of water and flour
   • - 1 liter is roughly equal to 1 quart
2. (of people) Having the same status, rights, or opportunities
3. Uniform in application or effect; without discrimination on any grounds
   • - a dedicated campaigner for equal rights
4. Evenly or fairly balanced
   • - it was hardly an equal contest
   
   

Having the ability or resources to meet (a challenge)

• - the players proved equal to the task

definition equal - Google Search

 

[Barcode]

The didn't answer my question

 

[ChristineES]

Can't things be equal yet not the same? I was always taught that.

 

[Straw Dog]

Because I use equality across the board assuming equality exist. Or are we discussing equality in specific arenas?

So assuming if equality ia universal I brought up the physical test.

Now all that tells me when I read the physical requirements, its merely saying that men are stronger and can do more, women are weaker and need a chance.

This isn't equality

I think we're viewing equality in monolithic terms here. It seems that there are many different levels of equality. Physical equality is something outside our ability to control really, unless we somehow master genetic engineering and make all babies into supermen and women lol.

There's political equality, cultural equality, religious equality, sexual equality... these are the types of equalities that we do have some control over to varying degrees since it's our social institutions that permits or discourages them. It's up to us to change our social institutions in a manner that maximizes equality and liberty.

On a more abstract level, there's the equality that comes about through entropy. In the end of the Universe, energy will be equally distributed across space/time. It's a state of perfect equilibrium. This might be the only true universal equality possible.

 

[Averroes]

I'm confused I thought equal means same in quantity and quality. For example, in the beginning of Ockam's Razor "All things being equal....."

 

[Straw Dog]

I'm confused I thought equal means same in quantity and quality. For example, in the beginning of Ockam's Razor "All things being equal....."

Political, cultural, religious, economic, and sexual equality are all brought about by people consciously attempting to affect change. They are all ideals and conceptual schemes to strive for. They become a reality whenever we make them into a reality. They don't exist prior to it. They come about through human nature.

I think you're referring to perfect equality. Can we have perfect equality? As I said, not until the Universe maximizes entropy and energy reaches a perfect equilibrium. Until then, we're just tending towards equality without completely reaching it. We're seeking as close of an approximation to equality as humanly possible through our social institutions.

 

[McBell]

According to Merriam-Webster's dictionary:

Definition of EQUALITY

1
: the quality or state of being equal




Then upon looking up the word "equal":


1
a (1) : of the same measure, quantity, amount, or number as another (2) : identical in mathematical value or logical denotation : equivalent

So if equality doesn't mean the same then by what, or whose definition are we going by?

It doesn't mean the same.
It means the same measure, quantity, amount, or number as another

It does not mean the same measure AND quantity AND amount AND number as another

care to try again?

 

[Averroes]

It doesn't mean the same.
It means the same measure, quantity, amount, or number as another

It does not mean the same measure AND quantity AND amount AND number as another

care to try again?

IWhatever

 

[McBell]

IWhatever

I take that as a "no"?

Or perhaps you want me to show you how two gallons is NOT equal to two pints regardless of the fact that there are two?

And before you go "They are not the same" I just want to point out that that is the whole freaking point.

Men are NOT the same as women, thus being equal does not mean the same number of sit ups, or push ups.

 

[Kathryn]

The word equal CAN be used to mean something the same weight, or measure, or VALUE, among other usages.

What some people are trying to do is to impose their own limitations on the usage of the word, when in fact we could all sit here and copy and paste definitions out of a variety of dictionaries which would support our own positions - because the word "equal" has a wider variety of meanings than those people are "allowing" it to have.

It's like many other commonly used words in our language - it's meaning is nuanced. Here's another word like that:

wrong/rôNG/


Adjective:Not correct or true.Adverb:In an unsuitable or undesirable manner or direction: "what am I doing wrong?".Noun:An unjust, dishonest, or immoral action.Verb:Act unjustly or dishonestly toward (someone): "the people I have wronged".Synonyms:adjective. incorrect - erroneous - mistaken - false - improper - bad
adverb. amiss - mistakenly - incorrectly - badly - erroneously
noun. injustice - harm - fault - evil - error - iniquity
verb. injure - harm
More info »Wikipedia - Dictionary.com - Answers.com - Merriam-Webster

 

[Alceste]

One could argue that the objective of the fitness evaluation is to weed out everyone below a certain percentile without inhibiting the equal opportunity for both men and women to become officers, it makes sense to treat the genders differently because you would get the same percentile range of both genders. And seriously, how much upper body strength does a person really need to hoist donuts all day?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Well...at my daughter's Karate dojo, the physical test for the Black Belt is the same across the board.

3 mile run
50 push ups
50 sit ups
Squat in a "horse stance" for 30 minutes

Men. Women. Adult. Teen. Child.

Men typically struggle a bit in the horse stance, where women typically struggle in the push ups.

So what? They pass though. Everybody meets the standard and all candidates are SUPPOSED to meet the standard.

 

[Averroes]

I take that as a "no"?

Or perhaps you want me to show you how two gallons is NOT equal to two pints regardless of the fact that there are two?

And before you go "They are not the same" I just want to point out that that is the whole freaking point.

Men are NOT the same as women, thus being equal does not mean the same number of sit ups, or push ups.

In this case no. I notice a pattern you have in particular in responding to me. I am disinterested in getting into a ******* over the internet. You have your ideas and opinions and I have mine.