Is Equality Everyone Being Treated The Same?

[ChristineES]

Meh that's been refuted. Kids being smarter depends on environment. Hence is why Asians here are attributed as being the most successful academically. Asian kids are raised in strict households where extracurricular activities are secondary. Mathematics especially Calculus, is taught at young ages. Intelligence is subjective. Academic intelligence is overplayed. Nobody is smarter than anybody in an isolated situation

I'd have a hard time believing that everyone is born with the exact same intelligence. Certainly, all those things will help kids do better in school, but it couldn't possibly change intelligence. :no:

 

[Averroes]

Well Africans were taught that we weren't logical, rational or moral yet one black man artistically designed washington DC our nations capital.


Blacks weren't taught that we were genetically inferior yet we designed triangular pyramids. Yes Intelligence is genetic. No I thin genetics has an influence but not the sole responsible culprit.


Edit***


Not to bring race up but like gender and sexual orientation people ignorantly think what you are determines what you do

 

[Kathryn]

Sorry but any mother of more than one child can refute that theory.

 

[Revoltingest]

Nobody is smarter than anybody in an isolated situation

Intelligence is more complicated than most realize, but that claim certainly conflicts with my experience.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Sorry but any mother of more than one child can refute that theory.

I refute that theory, too. And we have four children where different disciplinary approaches have been successful with each child.

Across the board, though....all kids need to know who loves them and who's in charge.

Now, back to our gender discrimination chit chat...

Women can and most certainly do the minimum physical requirements that men do in their PT tests.

If we can, then we should.

Just curious, do we dumb anything down for men in female dominated-fields?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

At my daughters dojo, like I said earlier, men struggle in a horse stance where they have to do a stationary squat for 30 minutes. Women have tended to do better in that and in lower body work.

We do horse stance for 2 minutes or so in our practices. That's enough for me.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

We do horse stance for 2 minutes or so in our practices. That's enough for me.

2 minutes is difficult. 30 is brutal.

Everybody does it, though, in the Kempo Black Belt test at Dana's dojo.

She'll be ready to be a Black Belt Candidate by the time she earns her High Brown Belt, which should be in March 2012. Here....let me go over what her Black Belt Test is going to consist of (and mind you, she's a 13 year old girl):

At 6 am, her warm-up will have her doing a 3 mile run in 30 minutes, 50 push ups, 50 sit ups, 100 jumping jacks (that's ridiculously easy LOL), and then a quick drink of water before she goes into a horse stance.

In that horse stance for 30 minutes, she will be facing a panel of 5th degree or higher Black Belts that will drill her on her knowledge of Martial Arts history, terminology, as well as describing in detail her own personal demons that she is overcoming.

After the panel discussion during the 30 minute horse stance, she can get a quick bite of fruit, a drink of water, and then come back ready to drill ALL of her katas, her one-steps, and describe in detail exactly how the foot angle is to be in her side kick, the angle of the leg, and is the knife hand at a 45 degree angle? (she knows the answers to all of these, actually, but she'll need to demonstrate it in front of the panel).

Then she'll be demonstrating her self-defense steps for the next two hours. She will be attacked with her eyes closed by two Black Belts who will grab her and attempt to throw her down to the floor in addition to all other attempts by her uke's and other Black Belts in attendance who will really try to grab her, punch her, kick her, and she is to demonstrate knowledge and ability.

Two hours.

After the two hours of self-defense, she must then put her sparring gear on, and then spar with higher degree Black Belts for 10 rounds. Each round of sparring is 2 minutes of fighting, and one minute of rest. And the entire time, she will be tested with her will to continue, and with a "gong" at the front of the class that will be pointed to asking her to bang it when she wants to quit.

She'll be hit. Hard. Kicked. Hard. Thrown to the ground. Hard. The higher degree Black Belts at her dojo are World Champions, coaches of World Champions, former special ops hard core military guys.

And then, after it's all said and done, she'll break two boards and a brick.

THEN she will have earned her Black Belt.

We have witnessed too many women successfully OWN this caliber of this brutally mental, physical, and emotional testing to think that women are less capable of handling things. The training at her dojo is extremely difficult, but prepares her to not only survive it, but to walk in ready to kill it.

Men. Women. Teens. Children.

.

.

.

In dance, there is no difference in auditions for splits, for kicks, for balance drills, etc. for men and women. In SHOWS, the men are given the task of lifting women (sometimes, women lift men....not often, but they do). But in auditions, everybody is given the same combination, the same drills, the same interview, the same everything to get in the show or company.

This is why after too many years of witnessing what men and women can and should do, that this mindset stymies me.

Men jump higher.
Women are more flexible.
Men turn more because of their higher center of gravity.
Women kick higher because of the shape of the pelvis.....I get it. But these differences do not in any way, shape, or form justify adjusting minimum requirements for skill sets differently for men and women.

Pushups? Sit ups? Running? Come ON. We can do as much as the minimum set by men. And we SHOULD.

Heck.....I do. And a LOT of women do.....including my 13 year old daughter.

 

[ChristineES]

Not to bring race up but like gender and sexual orientation people ignorantly think what you are determines what you do

You won't find much of that on the RF. Those tired, old beliefs are going out the window, anyway (or at least we hope so, some people still believe that crud). That is not what I am talking about, anyway. I wasn't even thinking about race at all, I never do. Besides, I am half Navajo.

 

[Averroes]

Intelligence is more complicated than most realize, but that claim certainly conflicts with my experience.

I highly doubt a child with no knowledge of spherical trigonometry can figure out the size and orbit of Venus. Intelligence is complex yes but in the statement of no person being smart in isolation, I mean that they have to be in an environment where they are given that chance.

The issues of linking intelligence to genes is controversial. Its controversial because it has been used in the past to validate racism and sexism. Assuming that all things being "equal" even equating such would still be politically incorrect.

 

[Averroes]

Another thing about equality is intelligence. Some people are just smarter than others. Some kids do very well in school with no help, others do average and need extra help, and there are others who need a lot of extra help. We can't change that.

Um, a kid grasping concepts faster than others is only a form of intelligence. This doesn't mean the kids who don't grasp concepts faster or as fast are unintelligent.

The definition of intelligence as it was traditionally thought, was a narrow concept. Please see: Theory of multiple intelligences - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Averroes]

Source please.

See above


Err previous page in link

 

[Averroes]

Sorry but any mother of more than one child can refute that theory.

Kindly elaborate

 

[Me Myself]

To me equality is viewing everyone as having the same value, having equal weight. Treating people the same isn't possible, nor is even fair treatment sometimes. But striving for fairness is possible and desirable.

I would agree with this.

Everyone´s freedom and happiness should be equally important

 

[Songbird]

Um, a kid grasping concepts faster than others is only a form of intelligence. This doesn't mean the kids who don't grasp concepts faster or as fast are unintelligent.

The definition of intelligence as it was traditionally thought, was a narrow concept. Please see: Theory of multiple intelligences - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think you've mistaken intelligence variance between groups of people for variance between individuals. I haven't seen anyone claim there are differences based on race or any group. But it's obvious we all have varying abilities. An autistic child clearly has differences from a child with ADD or Down Syndrome or dyslexia - and that's just stating easy to spot differences.

 

[Averroes]

But again I dont see why (and many of those oppose to my view) cannot tell me how or why women must do less physical requirements than men.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I'd say the fundamental component of equality is primarily a matter of avoiding hindering certain people based on something arbitrary and irrelevant.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

But again I dont see why (and many of those oppose to my view) cannot tell me how or why women must do less physical requirements than men.

Try opening your eyes.

 

[Averroes]

I think you've mistaken intelligence variance between groups of people for variance between individuals. I haven't seen anyone claim there are differences based on race or any group. But it's obvious we all have varying abilities. An autistic child clearly has differences from a child with ADD or Down Syndrome or dyslexia - and that's just stating easy to spot differences.

I am not mistaking anything. When we say intelligent kids do better than kids that cant grasp concepts as good. Point blank I refuse to use the word 'intelligence' when referring to someone who can grasp and solve complex problems.

Which is why I posted the link

 

[Songbird]

But again I dont see why (and many of those oppose to my view) cannot tell me how or why women must do less physical requirements than men.

I think you should contact the individual organizations of which you question. Like Mystic said, some things have no different requirements. And like Kathryn said, proving individual fitness is the goal of some military jobs, which makes requirements flexible. And like I said women and men have different strengths in different areas. Arbitrary requirements which aren't job-necessitated can be re-evaluated for actual needs.

Edit: I see Kilgore Trout basically said my last statement, but better.

 

[Averroes]

I think you should contact the individual organizations of which you question. Like Mystic said, some things have no different requirements. And like Kathryn said, proving individual fitness is the goal of some military jobs, which makes requirements flexible. And like I said women and men have different strengths in different areas. Arbitrary requirements which aren't job-necessitated can be re-evaluated for actual needs.

Why do I need to contact those organizations? Men do five more push ups than women doesnt indicate men are stronger. But I see we come to the cross roads here so I will stop continuing to prove this point. Law enforcement will not re-evaluate their policies.