And if they think we're being shallow, let's point and yell, "I know you are but what am I? I know you are but what am I? I know you are but what am I?"
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Is feminism still needed in the U.S.
- Thread starter MoonWater
- Start date
And if they think we're being shallow, let's point and yell, "I know you are but what am I? I know you are but what am I? I know you are but what am I?"
Me Myself
Back to my username
Re-branding it would be a good idea for that.
Titanic
Well-Known Member
Sex is everything. From what I see in this world.
Perhaps the way to present feminism is as an aspect of humanism/peoplism/humanitarianism,
one oriented towards issues which primarily affect females. Then it's not a separate thingie
which can be opposed on the basis of separateness.
Titanic
Well-Known Member
It would please all then I guess.
why are people getting so hung up on the name? The whole point of feminism is to focus on equality from the perspective of women because they have so often been treated as lesser beings in society. If Feminism focuses on "women's rights" and "ending injustice towards women" then why in the world is anyone claiming that the term feminism, where fem=female=WOMEN, is a bad term when the term itself focuses on women which is exactly what the movement focuses on? It's completely ludicrous.
And I'm with alceste, the sheer fact that we seem unable to have an intelligent discussion about the issue at hand and that instead most of the 20+ pages consist of people banging on about ugly women and getting all bent out of shape whinning about a ******* WORD rather than focusing on the actual substance, is proof positive that feminism is still very sorely needed and very sorely relevant.
After reading through all the rampant stupidity, trolling, and off-topic posts in this thread I think I would be in favor of a feminism DIR too and will probably suggest it to the mods if someone hasn't beaten me too it. Maybe it will help us stem the tide of idiocy that we've seen here in favor of actual intelligent and ON TOPIC debate where we focus on *gasp* the actual issues instead of getting hung up on a ******* word and running off on tangents about *** and tits.:149::fight::verymad::banghead3
.........
:sad:....:meditate:
/rant
And I'm with alceste, the sheer fact that we seem unable to have an intelligent discussion about the issue at hand and that instead most of the 20+ pages consist of people banging on about ugly women and getting all bent out of shape whinning about a ******* WORD rather than focusing on the actual substance, is proof positive that feminism is still very sorely needed and very sorely relevant.
After reading through all the rampant stupidity, trolling, and off-topic posts in this thread I think I would be in favor of a feminism DIR too and will probably suggest it to the mods if someone hasn't beaten me too it. Maybe it will help us stem the tide of idiocy that we've seen here in favor of actual intelligent and ON TOPIC debate where we focus on *gasp* the actual issues instead of getting hung up on a ******* word and running off on tangents about *** and tits.:149::fight::verymad::banghead3
.........
:sad:....:meditate:
/rant
For your viewing pleasure....And if they think we're being shallow, let's point and yell, "I know you are but what am I? I know you are but what am I? I know you are but what am I?"
[youtube]Cs4Gj7JsET4[/youtube]
I know you are but what am I - Pee Wee - YouTube
Knock yourself out.
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/84
Here's another:
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/search/?query=feminism
Last edited:
Me Myself
Back to my username
Names are vital.
We need equality, that is obvious. We need movements for women's rights, that is obvious.
"Feminism" though is a dangerous perspective, as a name, not as a concept. The concept has many names. Better names.
Both "feminism" and "masculinism" are polarising and as thus problematic.
I honestly dont know what to tell you if you dont think names are important.
They just are. It's one of those things so obvious it would take me time to recover and actually tell you why.
They are vital, specially for causes and ideologies. Brands need ghe best names and socials causes ARE brands. "Feminism" has a bad rep. Of course it has, the name is female centric when talking about an ideology.
Saying "I am not a masculist but I am a feminist because I believe in equal rights" its stupid.
Its not reasonable to just use one point of view when thinking about equality (womens point of view) and thinking that is the best.
It should be an humatarian point of view or an egualitarian point of view dealing with sexism. You are not supposed to be a man or a woman when dealing with it, you are supposed to be a human, or an egualitarian.
Its a bad name, and it gains bad rep because of it. Most people smell it, so there is why it has bad rep and IT IS limiting its reach.
If you have a social cause you need people on your side. Why take a polarizing name? You are for equality, put equality in your name, you are for womans rights put that on your name, but the moment you put "feme inism" together, you are saying you only care about women. Yes, that is not the concept, but it is the direct idea. Women come first.
Theism means god comes first. Maltheism means god is bad, humanism means humans are the most important, racism means race is the most important factor when jusging a person, sexism means sex is the most important factor when judging a person.
Words tell stories, and if you make a word tell the wrong story for the concept it is supposed to mean, things like this will happen.
Pagan_Patriot
Active Member
So... Where is this feminist constitution with a list of demands? What's stopping a woman from protesting to have man slaves and making the whole movement look like crap?
Me Myself
Back to my username
That question is irrelevant. Any movement would have such problems because all ideologies have that problem.
Anyone can say belongs to it, make stupid claims and hit the news with the name of his or her brand.
Pagan_Patriot
Active Member
Then shouldn't they have some sort of written constitution to show what theu actually want?
It's a female centric word for a female centric movement and no it does not mean we only care about women, simply that we focus on issues that primarily effect women. Just because you put your focus on something doesn't mean that is all you care about. To claim otherwise is disingenuous, facetious, and frankly VERY insulting.BTW, as a writer I do very much recognize the importance of names, however I also recognize that the substance and character of something is far more important than the name alone could ever hope to be and that getting hung up on the name ignores the vital essence of what is in front of you.
If it makes you feel better you can call feminism a branch of humanism since both have equality in mind, the only difference is that one is general while the other is more focused.
Now can we please move on from the word itself and focus instead on the actual movement, or shall we continue ignoring the actual issues before us in favor of pointlessly debating semantics?
Care to actually read a book?
Alceste
Vagabond
Pagan_Patriot
Active Member
I'm not gonna read a book by some hack. Now is there a specific list of demands, or is it another Occupy Wallstreet?
Alceste
Vagabond
That would be the best place to put it - in the Non-theistic beliefs DIR category that includes humanism, atheism, secularism, etc. There is a lot of overlap between all these philosphies IMO, and feminism is also an innately humanist philosophy - although not all humanists are feminists and vice versa.
Alceste
Vagabond
Where is the conservative constitution and its demands? Where is the atheist constitution and its demands? Where is the humanist constitution and its demands?
I think you're mistaking a philosophy for an organization.
You're asking a movement based on equal rights if there is a constitution as if we're forming a separate government, or a list of demands as if we're holding people hostage?
Crossfire provided a link to a free online version of "Vindication of the Rights of Women" by Mary Wollstonecraft which spurred the suffrage movement in the early 20th century. It's pre-First Wave feminism, and an important shift in our nation's history in favor of equal rights, citizenship, and freedom for all.
There are a LOT of notable feminist writers. I gave some examples earlier of who were recognizable in Second Wave feminism that I studied in college. "The Feminine Mystique" and "The Second Sex" are good starting points, IMO, because I started with them too.
Alceste
Vagabond
There's no definitive organization of feminists that could ever publish such a document. Besides, we're just going to continue to take or make what we want and need. There's nobody to "demand" anything from.