Is feminism still needed in the U.S.

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Had this stranger whom she'd trusted to take her home been a Taxi driver, who's taxi she got into voluntarily, would you think any differently?

I know I'm asking a lot of questions, I'm just trying to "feel around" to get a better understanding of your position.

No, a taxi driver would be a different story. If it was a random car, then yes.

EDIT: I mixed up the "no" and "yes" in relation to your question. Yes, I would think differently if it was a taxi cab, but if she got into a random car she deserves it.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

I had a friend of whom you remind me. He believed we were all just dirtbags and the sooner one realized this the sooner one could realize that they could take whatever they wanted. he found his belief liberating. And perhaps he should. everyday we are surrounded by so much emotion both happiness and suffering. To write off all suffering by hardening ones feeling to anothers suffering.

I do not agree with this philosophy nor would I seek to shed my empathy. Whether or not someone is stupid hardly justifies closing off my ability to understand another perspective.

I don't think we're all dirtbags at all. I do believe that nobody is more important than anybody else in the grand scheme of things. And I do (contrary to popular belief) in fact feel empathy, but it only extends to people I like or have done something for me. I believe that anything and everything is ours for the taking; one only needs to be willing to take it. That's the philosophy I live by.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Nah. I trust strangers all the time, all around the world. All my friends were strangers once. It's not like this is "beyond thunderdome" we're living in. People are generally OK. Besides, WAY more often than not, it's your intimate relations that rape, beat or kill you, not random people walking down the street. If anything, you're way safer if you ONLY talk to strangers, and they stay strangers.

Having said that, would you trust a random guy that offered to walk you home if you were alone in the middle of the night?

 

[Aquitaine]

No, a taxi driver would be a different story. If it was a random car, then yes.

I know people can have vastly different perspectives on things, but how you can deem people in those circumstance (including kids that fall for "Candy" tricks) actually deserving of being assaulted/raped etc, is something I am having difficulty understanding.

Meh, at least it shows diversity of opinion.

PS: Are you sure you're not mixing up poor-judgement/bad decision with deserving?

 

[Alceste]

Had this stranger whom she'd trusted to take her home been a Taxi driver, who's taxi she got into voluntarily, would you think any differently?

I know I'm asking a lot of questions, I'm just trying to "feel around" to get a better understanding of your position.

Oh man, I had one creepy taxi driver once in Montreal. It was really unnerving. He went super slow, by an unconventional and oddly dark route, asking me personal and suggestive questions the whole way and staring at me in the mirror. Eventually I lied about where I was going (lied about everything actually) and got out early. Just brought home the point that that bad luck can happen to anyone, anywhere, so everybody should probably learn how to fight.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

I know people can have vastly different perspectives on things, but how you can deem people in those circumstance (including kids that fall for "Candy" tricks) actually deserving of being assaulted/raped etc, is something I am having difficulty understanding.

Meh, at least it shows diversity of opinion.

PS: Are you sure you're not mixing up poor-judgement/bad decision with deserving?

Making that poor judgement/bad decision means you do deserve what you get. You reap what you sow, right? I'm not mixed up at all.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Oh man, I had one creepy taxi driver once in Montreal. It was really unnerving. He went super slow, by an unconventional and oddly dark route, asking me personal and suggestive questions the whole way and staring at me in the mirror. Eventually I lied about where I was going (lied about everything actually) and got out early. Just brought home the point that that bad luck can happen to anyone, anywhere, so everybody should probably learn how to fight.

See? That's a perfect example of the common sense everyone should have.

 

[Alceste]

I never said you were playing the victim, nor did I mean to make it sound that way. From our conversations I've gathered that you're smarter than that.

Selling decriminalized drugs to a small circle of trusted people definitely involves a lot less risk than selling your body to complete strangers. *edit*

I don't know about that. My prostitute friend has never had any trouble but people used to try to rob my dealer neighbour because he always had huge piles of cash lying around.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

I don't know about that. My prostitute friend has never had any trouble but people used to try to rob my dealer neighbour because he always had huge piles of cash lying around.

That's a stupid problem to have. He probably let the whole neighborhood know he was a dealer.

 

[Alceste]

Having said that, would you trust a random guy that offered to walk you home if you were alone in the middle of the night?

Depends on the vibe I get off them and where I meet them. I've been escorted home by a rather large number of strange men. I've also turned a many such offers down. If you meet me at a party and dazzle me with your wit, good looks and charm, your chances are far better than if you slip unexpectedly out of a shadowy side street and proposition me unexpectedly while I'm walking home alone.

 

[Aquitaine]

Making that poor judgement/bad decision means you do deserve what you get. You reap what you sow, right? I'm not mixed up at all.

I suppose therefore, that this would also explain your views regarding homeless people, as well as homeless prostitutes. If you're willing to judge a child "deserving" for falling for a Pedophiles' bait trick, then I suppose it would make sense that you'd also judge a 15 year old from a deprived, dysfunctional family with God-knows what other issues, as "deserving" for getting lured into a Child Sex-Trafficking ring by another 15 year old girl used as a recruiter.

 

[Alceste]

Making that poor judgement/bad decision means you do deserve what you get. You reap what you sow, right? I'm not mixed up at all.

So, at what age do the victims of abuse start deserving it for trusting their abuser? Right from birth? Puberty? 18? 21? How much abuse do they deserve, specifically? Would a slap be enough, or should the individual delivering what the victim deserves have to go whole hog - a prolonged torture killing? What about the duration? Was 24 years of being continually raped and locked in a cellar enough of a punishment for Elizabeth Frizl for the crime of trusting her father? Should her father be praised for being the deliverer of justice?

Just trying to figure out where the line is, for you.

 

[Alceste]

I suppose therefore, that this would also explain your views regarding homeless people, as well as homeless prostitutes. If you're willing to judge a child "deserving" for falling for a Pedophiles' bait trick, then I suppose it would make sense that you'd also judge a 15 year old from a deprived, dysfunctional family with God-knows what other issues, as "deserving" for getting lured into a Child Sex-Trafficking ring by another 15 year old girl used as a recruiter.

Heck, I suppose catholic kids probably deserve to get raped for going to church.

 

[Alceste]

See? That's a perfect example of the common sense everyone should have.

Meh. Every single one of the rape victims I know was assaulted by a family member, friend or boyfriend. (five.) None were assaulted by creepy taxi drivers. If anything, I would be safer taking more rides in creepy taxis and cutting way back on my intimate relationships with ordinary men.

 

[Curious George]

I don't think we're all dirtbags at all. I do believe that nobody is more important than anybody else in the grand scheme of things. And I do (contrary to popular belief) in fact feel empathy, but it only extends to people I like or have done something for me. I believe that anything and everything is ours for the taking; one only needs to be willing to take it. That's the philosophy I live by.

Never said you did believe the same, just enough to remind me of him. having read many of your posts, I have a general idea of your philosophy. First I do not think that everything one can take ought to be taken. Second, I believe that not everything can be taken. third, I believe reserving empathy for those one likes is a loss. Lastly many have done much for you and you do not nor will not ever realize it.

It is that philosophies which largely ignore others that I believe feminism is highly needed.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

So, at what age do the victims of abuse start deserving it for trusting their abuser? Right from birth? Puberty? 18? 21? How much abuse do they deserve, specifically? Would a slap be enough, or should the individual delivering what the victim deserves have to go whole hog - a prolonged torture killing? What about the duration? Was 24 years of being continually raped and locked in a cellar enough of a punishment for Elizabeth Frizl for the crime of trusting her father? Should her father be praised for being the deliverer of justice?

Just trying to figure out where the line is, for you.

With children, as I said earlier, part of the blame lies with their parents for not teaching them any better. I was about 4 when I understood the concept of what a stranger was, and my parents stressed to me the importance of not trusting strangers, even if they were in a familiar place, such as my school. I'd say the kid takes the whole blame at around 8 or 9, when they're definitely old enough to know better (or at least should). At this age I was required to walk to school, so my father taught me basic hold breaks and gave me a pocket knife for protection.

As far as the "level of abuse deserved", you get what you get; I don't think there's any way to gauge that. Some are more unfortunate than others.

I don't know enough about the Elizabeth Frizl case to give any sort of opinion on it, but I'll use a case I do know. Those girls that were found in Cleveland, Ohio earlier this year had plenty of opportunities to escape during their ten years of captivity (they said so themselves); after a while they weren't restrained in any kind of way. So I'd say after they blew their first few chances for escape that it was their own stupidity keeping them in that situation.

I never once condoned rape or abuse, and do think the people that do it are criminals and deserve to be punished. I don't see the abuser as the "deliverer of justice". That doesn't take away from my belief that if someone was stupid enough to be tricked into that situation they deserved it.

 

[Alceste]

With children, as I said earlier, part of the blame lies with their parents for not teaching them any better. I was about 4 when I understood the concept of what a stranger was, and my parents stressed to me the importance of not trusting strangers, even if they were in a familiar place, such as my school. I'd say the kid takes the whole blame at around 8 or 9, when they're definitely old enough to know better (or at least should). At this age I was required to walk to school, so my father taught me basic hold breaks and gave me a pocket knife for protection.

As far as the "level of abuse deserved", you get what you get; I don't think there's any way to gauge that. Some are more unfortunate than others.

I don't know enough about the Elizabeth Frizl case to give any sort of opinion on it, but I'll use a case I do know. Those girls that were found in Cleveland, Ohio earlier this year had plenty of opportunities to escape during their ten years of captivity (they said so themselves); after a while they weren't restrained in any kind of way. So I'd say after they blew their first few chances for escape that it was their own stupidity keeping them in that situation.

I never once condoned rape or abuse, and do think the people that do it are criminals and deserve to be punished. I don't see the abuser as the "deliverer of justice". That doesn't take away from my belief that if someone was stupid enough to be tricked into that situation they deserved it.

"Deserving" something implies that receiving it is justice, doesn't it? So if women (for example) "deserve" to be raped and murdered for selling sex, the rapists and murderers are delivering justice. Are they not? Or perhaps would it be incorrect to say that people "deserve" to be abused?

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Heck, I suppose catholic kids probably deserve to get raped for going to church.

Not for going to church, but some of them because they were old enough to know better. I'd take that on a case by case basis.

 

[Alceste]

Not for going to church, but some of them because they were old enough to know better. I'd take that on a case by case basis.

But you're far more likely to get raped by your priest or minister than by a stranger when you're a kid. Why the free pass for kids who are stupid enough to go to church, when no leniency is offered to kids who talk to strangers?

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

"Deserving" something implies that receiving it is justice, doesn't it? So if women (for example) "deserve" to be raped and murdered for selling sex, the rapists and murderers are delivering justice. Are they not? Or perhaps would it be incorrect tutti say that people "deserve" to be abused?

Not necessarily justice; just the consequence of their stupid decision. And the rapist/murderer deserves to be punished as a consequence of their stupid decision. There's no "winner" or "good guy" in those situations, but nobody's getting something they weren't asking for.