Is God a Mystery that Will Never be Solved?

[Trailblazer]

heh...heh...what it demonstrates, is that consciousness is omniscient; ie 'non-local'.

You call universal consciousness 'the soul' because you still see things as an individual; as a distinct and separate 'self'. Once this is realized to be illusory, 'the soul' becomes simply 'soul', which is none other than spirit, or universal consciousness.

I believe in the “individual soul”…

 

[Trailblazer]

Yeshua did say that 'the kingdom of GOD is within you'.

(while the Buddha said that Ordinary Mind is not different than Buddha Mind)

And if the Hindus are correct, then not only does God live within human bodies*; humans are none other than God playing Itself as humans, and all of the other forms in the entire Universe. But the Hindu view of the divine nature, Brahman, is not that of the Christian, Jewish, or Muslim idea of God as creator-god. It is 'the ground of all Being'; Tao; The Unified Field; The Void; etc.

"The Universe is [none other than]The Absolute, as seen through the glass of Time, Space, and Causation"
Vivekenanda

The key that Hinduism provides is that The Universe is the result of lila (divine play) and maya (illusion), while the key Zen offers is that The Miraculous is none other than The Ordinary.

"Before Enlightenment, sweeping the floor;
after Enlightenment, sweeping the floor."

*Namaste, ever-conscious Self

Thanks for sharing. These religions are sure different aren’t they?

 

[loverofhumanity]

It depends on one's individual "belief." I like The Lion King when he says the stars are the many ancestors watching down on us. Its facts to us but beliefs to others. I have no issue with beliefs the just misinterpreting others beliefs into something it is not to the scriptures and practitioners that define it.

If the misinterpretation causes death, destruction, oppression and bloodshed why shouldn’t it be challenged?

Do you know that in the Quran it says ‘not to make mischief on the earth’ and how the interpretation of that verse has led to so much oppression of innocent minorities? Anytime those in power want to oppress a minority they use this verse even though the people are innocent.

Injustice must be challenged. Oppression and human rights abuses based wholly on interpretation of scriptures should always be challenged and never left to stand.

When we allow a falsehood to stand it harms and injures people. For instance many Muslims term westerners ‘infidels’ and so claim it gives terrorists the right to kill and destroy westerners.

The real infidels are people who claim to believe in a God yet mistreat people. Misinterpretation has caused so many wars and bloodshed it’s time to clear it up. Religion once opposed science as of the devil and witchcraft and burnt people for being scientific.
Science needed to challenge religion on that and now we don’t see religion able to burn people who are scientists.

But minorities using different misinterpretations are currently severely oppressed and victimized so these false interpretations should never be allowed to stand and continue to harm human life.

 

[godnotgod]

I believe in the “individual soul”…

hmmmm.....'you', the individual soul, believes in the individual soul? There are two of you? Have you determined it's location yet?

It is the ego which creates the notion of an 'individual' soul.

But if such an animal does exist as something 'individual', where does it's outer perimeter end and the world outside of it begin? Without such a limiting perimeter, there can be nothing to call 'individual'.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So are you saying that there exists an experiencer of the experience called 'the self'?...or is there only the experience itself, which is what we actually are.

Where is this 'self' which 'makes choices' and 'has desires'?

Do you meditate or have you ever asked a question of your own mind?

Think about. If I ask my mind ‘is he right’ who is asking whom?

There is a questioner and an answerer right? When a person reflects they put questions to whom? There is a questioner and the answerer isn’t there?

So who is asking the questions and who is it that answers!

Think about this quote and see if it makes any sense. There is another ‘self’ within us that we seem to consult at times. Is it a spirit or soul? It’s there though otherwise one could not

WOW! I know about the pre-existent soul of Prophets but I did not know all of the rest of what you wrote!
I have saved that into a Word document for future reference!

Thank you so much.

We see today suddenly the arising of women all over the world. After so many centuries? Why? What is happening today in today’s news was written about over 100 years ago and predicted by Abdu’l-Baha. So awesome, The Cause of women has only taken off after Baha’u’llah arrived not before.

Devote ye particular attention to the school for girls, for the greatness of this wondrous Age will be manifested as a result of progress in the world of women. This is why ye observe that in every land the world of women is on the march, and this is due to the impact of the Most Great Manifestation, and the power of the teachings of God.

('Abdu'l-Bahá, from a Tablet - translated from the Persian)

Even today we had women marching and women all over the world marching, literally. His words about marching are literally happening now. The news today and more and more is all about WOMEN. Just incredible.

 

[godnotgod]

Do you meditate or have you ever asked a question of your own mind?

Think about. If I ask my mind ‘is he right’ who is asking whom?

There is a questioner and an answerer right? When a person reflects they put questions to whom? There is a questioner and the answerer isn’t there?

So who is asking the questions and who is it that answers!

Think about this quote and see if it makes any sense. There is another ‘self’ within us that we seem to consult at times. Is it a spirit or soul? It’s there though otherwise one could not

.

Looks as if part of your sentence was cut off.

You don't realize it, but your mind is creating a subject/object split you call 'the questioner' and 'the answerer', both of which are an illusion. In fact, the mind itself is an illusion. It is a self-created principle. It is obvious to me that you have not gone deep enough in your meditation to come to this realization. You think there is a 'questioner of the question'; an 'answerer of the answer'; an 'experiencer of the experience', and so on. No such agents actually exist in reality, in exactly the same manner that no such 'whirler of whirling water' called a 'whirlpool' actually exists. The reality is that there is only 'whirling water', sans an agent of whirling water.

There is no one asking or answering questions: there is only the action of asking and answering, without an asking or answering agent. Your mind sets up the notion of such agents, and then places a belief in them as actual reality.

Yes, there is a presence within, but it is not an individual 'other' self. You are projecting the idea of a separate self out of consciousness. Do you see that?

Suggest you return to your meditation mat and ask: 'Who, or what, is it that is asking the question?' Then you may experience a breakthrough.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Looks as if part of your sentence was cut off.

You don't realize it, but your mind is creating a subject/object split you call 'the questioner' and 'the answerer', both of which are an illusion. In fact, the mind itself is an illusion. It is a self-created principle. It is obvious to me that you have not gone deep enough in your meditation to come to this realization. You think there is a 'questioner of the question'; an 'answerer of the answer'; an 'experiencer of the experience', and so on. No such agents actually exist in reality, in exactly the same manner that no such 'whirler of whirling water' called a 'whirlpool' actually exists. The reality is that there is only 'whirling water', sans an agent of whirling water.

There is no one asking or answering questions: there is only the action of asking and answering, without an asking or answering agent. Your mind sets up the notion of such agents, and then places a belief in them as actual reality.

Yes, there is a presence within, but it is not an individual 'other' self. You are projecting the idea of a separate self out of consciousness. Do you see that?

Suggest you return to your meditation mat and ask: 'Who, or what, is it that is asking the question?' Then you may experience a breakthrough.

My understanding is not that the mind is an illusion but that it is a power of the spirit. It is an attribute of the spirit or soul.

If a soul turns towards material things the mind becomes worldly but if it turns towards heavenly and spiritual things the mind then becomes spiritual.

Meditation is not just about sitting cross legged and focusing on a physical point. It is about the spirit turning towards the spiritual like a mirror faces the sun so the light of reality can be reflected in it.

If the mirror of ones soul or spirit turns towards physical things then one becomes materialistic.

So it’s not just meditating that’s important but what the focal point is.

If one turns in meditation to the Great Teachers like Buddha, Jesus and so on then one is connected with the Source. Also, meditation can be used to calm ones self or study sciences.

But the object of meditation in my understanding is that it should produce something fruitful in this world for ourselves and others, lead to the transformation of the character of the individual and society and make us selfless servants of humanity.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If the misinterpretation causes death, destruction, oppression and bloodshed why shouldn’t it be challenged?

Thats like saying the kitchen knife should be a butter knife then it wont kill anyone anymore. Or judging the knife for crimes rather than the person. Even worse taking away that persons knife and handing him a spoon saying "he was suppposed to have this" because his ancestors warped it to where its a "dangerous" object.

Do you know that in the Quran it says ‘not to make mischief on the earth’ and how the interpretation of that verse has led to so much oppression of innocent minorities? Anytime those in power want to oppress a minority they use this verse even though the people are innocent.

Youre interpreting someone by their religion but then the quran says something positive you listen to but when the bible talks of sacrifice its symbolic?

It took me awhile but I accepted that christianity Is about sacrifice of a human. Not something I want to hear but history trumphs my beliefs if going by facts.

Injustice must be challenged. Oppression and human rights abuses based wholly on interpretation of scriptures should always be challenged and never left to stand.

You are sddressing the wrong thing. Many people do well seeing human sacrifice as literal. What we improved on is keeping our religious beliefs tbat harm people out of our laws. In the states the religious can kill animals if its for religious purposes. If not, one can get arrested and in another fined by the Animal Rights Association.

They dont change people's beliefs. They change some of Their actions to obey state and federal laws.

When we allow a falsehood to stand it harms and injures people. For instance many Muslims term westerners ‘infidels’ and so claim it gives terrorists the ri

Nothing to do with religion. We Are muslims. We Are roman catholics We Are westerners (and proud of it) but to change and judge people off their religion by yours, that does nothing. Peace cannot happen by changing someone else's values (unifying them). That screams disorder. More wars. Counterproductive.

The real infidels are people who claim to believe in a God yet mistreat people. Misinterpretation has caused so many wars and bloodshed it’s time to clear it up. Religion once opposed science as of the devil and witchcraft and burnt people for being scientific.
Science needed to challenge religion on that and now we don’t see religion able to burn people who are scientists.

People not religion.

But minorities using different misinterpretations are currently severely oppressed and victimized so these false interpretations should never be allowed to stand and continue to harm human life.

People not religion.

So, by changing muslim beliefs to be peaceful you are changing how non dangerous middle eastern people (not all muslims are dangerous) live. People lives are changed by Knowing they can consume jesus Real blood and Real body. Change it to symbolism, you crush millions of of people faith based on their peers actions.

Spirituality (both realism and symbolic) does not hurt anyone. That and you are part of politics too. How are you different than the people you want to change?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Thats like saying the kitchen knife should be a butter knife then it wont kill anyone anymore. Or judging the knife for crimes rather than the person. Even worse taking away that persons knife and handing him a spoon saying "he was suppposed to have this" because his ancestors warped it to where its a "dangerous" object.



Youre interpreting someone by their religion but then the quran says something positive you listen to but when the bible talks of sacrifice its symbolic?

It took me awhile but I accepted that christianity Is about sacrifice of a human. Not something I want to hear but history trumphs my beliefs if going by facts.



You are sddressing the wrong thing. Many people do well seeing human sacrifice as literal. What we improved on is keeping our religious beliefs tbat harm people out of our laws. In the states the religious can kill animals if its for religious purposes. If not, one can get arrested and in another fined by the Animal Rights Association.

They dont change people's beliefs. They change some of Their actions to obey state and federal laws.



Nothing to do with religion. We Are muslims. We Are roman catholics We Are westerners (and proud of it) but to change and judge people off their religion by yours, that does nothing. Peace cannot happen by changing someone else's values (unifying them). That screams disorder. More wars. Counterproductive.



People not religion.



People not religion.

So, by changing muslim beliefs to be peaceful you are changing how non dangerous middle eastern people (not all muslims are dangerous) live. People lives are changed by Knowing they can consume jesus Real blood and Real body. Change it to symbolism, you crush millions of of people faith based on their peers actions.

Spirituality (both realism and symbolic) does not hurt anyone. That and you are part of politics too. How are you different than the people you want to change?

No one is judging anybody. Bad interpretations are used to incite people. They are not spiritual but they are scripture.

Any peaceful and loving meaning of scripture is acceptable but not violent interpretations used to promote terrorism or exclusivity or division.

If the religions had a united interpretation they would be at peace but they cling to interpretations which divide people into camps and cause disunity.

History is replete with wars based upon violent interpretations of scripture. The scriptures themselves do not promote violence but ignorance of their intended meaning does.

The rise of terrorism is based on cherry picked verses of the Quran and false Hadiths and people who are not educated about the proper meaning believe it and volunteer for terrorist acts.

It’s an ideological war of bad interpretations vs the real interpretation. Exclusivity is based upon non existent passages of the scriptures. On sermons stretched beyond reason and logic.

All the Holy Books teach peace and love but the reason we have so much division is because up until now there has never been an authoritative interpretation.

Once this authoritative interpretation spreads it will unite not divide, it will create harmony not hatred and there will be peace and unity.

Ignorance is the main cause of prejudice and wrong doing and only proper education can rectify this. People are so divided as to the true meanings of their scriptures only a Prophet of God can ever hope to clear it up and He is clearing it up which is why people from opposing Faiths, nations and races are uniting in peace.

Interpretations are being questioned as to their validity not people.

The purpose of religion is love and harmony. If religion ceases to promote unity in the world and bring together all humanity of what use is it?

Now, more than ever we need I am convinced we need a global ethic, an ethic that embraces all humanity not exclusivity which polarises and divides based upon incorrect interpretations of scripture.

For example, Jesus said He was the way. Christians have added ‘only’ to that. He did not say only. He said on His return He would appear with a new name yet Christians will only accept the interpretations that give them exxlusivity which of course means we are all heathen and to the Muslim we are all infidels. These assertions divide humanity and are against what religion teaches. Interpretations such as this lead to Christians disrespecting Muhammad and Islam and causing great offence to Muslims and other religions and division between them.

If all religions taught the correct interpretation of their scriptures we would already have ages ago been at peace and united.

This is the age of unity not exclusivity and ideas or interpretations that say one race, religion or nation is superior to another are not going to carry the day much longer.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No one is judging anybody. Bad interpretations are used to incite people. They are not spiritual but they are scripture

They are not bad interpretations. (The knife is not bad)

People interpret text differently. I interpret human sacrifice wrong. Others say its right. We both live with each other in peace.

We are not seperate from you and ever other individual you talk about "when" saying their scripture is written incorrectly in some places nd read wrong in others.

It took me awhile to understsnd there is no seperation of modern and past. No primitive society. Bias words. Huge generalizations.

How are you different? You read from the same quran. Its not the scriptures or you and many muslis would be going to war too. If it is the religion, why arent you at war?

Any peaceful and loving meaning of scripture is acceptable but not violent interpretations used to promote terrorism or exclusivity or division.

No. Many would probably kill. Americans get arrested in other countries if not killed for breaking religious laws. I wouldnt be surprised if the Church forcefully converted people if our laws were not against unpeaceful protest.

Its the people. Why didnt I want to go to war and convert?

If my former religion is full of misinterpretations, why did I for good things based on the religion and not bad?

You were former catholic? Why didnt you go to war with others if thats what your former religion promoted?

If the religions had a united interpretation they would be at peace but they cling to interpretations which divide people into camps and cause disunity.

They do among their own followers in abrahamic traditons. I notice easterners are more closenet among their own cultural peers. Universalist want peace for all people ďispite differences. Many religions accept everyone has their differences as long as they arent disrespecting their own they are fine.

I wasnt divided when I was catholic. Who are you talking about?

History is replete with wars based upon violent interpretations of scripture. The scriptures themselves do not promote violence but ignorance of their intended meaning does.

Thats why we dont need to reinterpet scriptures. Read it as how tbe culture, history, and people define it as. Address the people.

The rise of terrorism is based on cherry picked verses of the Quran and false Hadiths and people who are not educated about the proper meaning believe it and volunteer for terrorist acts.

No. Do you cherry pick the quran?

Who are you speaking of apart from yourself and people on this RF?

It’s an ideological war of bad interpretations vs the real interpretation. Exclusivity is based upon non existent passages of the scriptures. On sermons stretched beyond reason and logic.

No one but present day people have "real" interpretations at that time period. Bahai doesnt no more tban muslim, jew, and christian. We cant go back in time. Though I admire muslim and jew since they kept historical and cultural ties.

Spirituality in the supernatual sense god included is not overall logical. Why did you not want to cause wars if its the scripture and not your personality, upbringing, and/or inner sense of morality of the issue?

All the Holy Books teach peace and love but the reason we have so much division is because up until now there has never been an authoritative interpretation.

Problem is. They teach peace and love as written. Both literal and symbolic.

Once this authoritative interpretation spreads it will unite not divide, it will create harmony not hatred and there will be peace and unity.

Whose authority?

We learned what happens in one-person authoritative roles. Why reinvent the wheel?

Ignorance is the main cause of prejudice and wrong doing and only proper education can rectify this. People are so divided as to the true meanings of their scriptures only a Prophet of God can ever hope to clear it up and He is clearing it up which is why people from opposing Faiths, nations and races are uniting in peace.

There is no True meaning of scripture. As long as you go through an intermediary-person and book-you are already far away from what was actually taught. These are Oral religions. If you go to god directly problem solved. Relationship is between you and god.

Interpretations are being questioned as to their validity not people.

The purpose of religion is love and harmony. If religion ceases to promote unity in the world and bring together all humanity of what use is it?

How do you test scripture validity without the people?

Scripture already promotes peace etc. You cant change most traditions are not universalist.

Not wrong. I dont allow everyone in my home but I dont expect me to go to anyones house. We arent universalist in america and have real privacy issues. Not wrong just different cultures. Doesnt cause wars unless abused.

Now, more than ever we need I am convinced we need a global ethic, an ethic that embraces all humanity not exclusivity which polarises and divides based upon incorrect interpretations of scripture.

We disagree. Why would I personally need a global ethic right now?

And

Why do you?

For example, Jesus said He was the way. Christians have added ‘only’ to that. He did not say only. He said on His return He would appear with a new name yet Christians will only accept the interpretations that give them exxlusivity which of course means we are all heathen and to the Muslim we are all infidels. These assertions divide humanity and are against what religion teaches. Interpretations such as this lead to Christians disrespecting Muhammad and Islam and causing great offence to Muslims and other religions and division between them.

Wow. That one simple phrase made complicated. About the people not scripture.

"Jesus says he is the way to the father."

Where in that says there are other ways besides jesus?

If all religions taught the correct interpretation of their scriptures we would already have ages ago been at peace and united.

No one has correct information. Once you say you do you are reinvienting the wheel of authority. Try another method. Dictatorship causes wars.

This is the age of unity not exclusivity and ideas or interpretations that say one race, religion or nation is superior to another are not going to carry the day much longer.

It is what it is. Unless everyone becomes bahai, believes in god, you cant get around that. Everyone would literally need to believe what you believe for you to see peace. Everyone elses is defined by their religions politics. I find that so wrong.

No one would be bahai nor any faith if this were not the truth.

 

[HeatherAnn]

Interesting. I'm not sure about God being love, but there is something like that in my experience. It was all open and full of awe. I had no feeling of judgment, so you could say the feeling is same as someone who loves.

I realize that suggesting, "infinite possibilities of infinite possible universes" isn't saying much that is meaningful or relatable, but I think it does suggest the need to always keep searching - there's always more.

At this time, I see benefit of being nonjudgmental - accepting "as is." Yet, I also realize the need to have some values and standards to realize when we or others suffer and to do something about it.

Comma, or a pause in music. That's is what I've also heard Taoists call the Tao or way.

Interesting - I've read a bit of Taoism -but I have more to learn.

 

[HeatherAnn]

would you agree?.....some statements are self proving

for example.....Someone had to be First
in mind and heart

I believe that Someone to be the Creator

Well, I suppose some statements are axiomatic based on facts that have been shown millions of times - like facts of our bodies.
But when it comes to God, it's much too personal to be evident to everyone, otherwise there wouldn't be much debate about God.
Aristotle may have had some influence in deciding God to be the Creator - or "Prime Mover" which may have come from Greek Mythology... Chaos (the void) was considered first, then a mix of Gaia/Earth & Sky... then Titans... then Zeus... And the biblical notion of God seems to reflect a mix of all of that.

There is no doubt in my mind that this world - including us - was created by Intelligent Design.
Even for Atheists, Stephan Hawking defined intelligent as ability to adapt to change - which our world is full of!

On one hand, there is a real need to humbly be grateful for the many events and creation within and around us that we are clueless about yet enjoy.
On the other hand, is a need to take response-ability - to realize we each play a part - physically in this world, and likely spiritually in other dimensions.
So, part of me sees that there must be a beginning and end - and another part of me sees it as a big circle or like yin and yang - opposing forces (especially chaos and order) ceaselessly chasing after each other.

 

[HeatherAnn]

You’re not a-kiddin! I have been discussing this with nonbelievers on other forums for nigh on three years! I have scads of Word documents I have written up that I recycle often…

Just to let you know, I do not think personal God experiences or Creation are evidence that God exists because neither one of those are verifiable to have come from any God. I believe that Messengers of God (Prophets) are the only evidence God provides of His existence. I am well aware that nobody can prove they received communication from God, but there is a lot of verifiable evidence that indicates that they did. I believe we are charged with making the determination as to whether they are from God or not, if we want to know (a) if God exists and (b) what God is like and (c) what God’s will is for us.

Messengers of God are the only way to know anything about God. God is too exalted for us to know without an intermediary who has both human and divine qualities. This is all very logical. I simply cannot understand why nonbelievers have such a problem with it.

Well, I'm a believer of many things, yet I have a problem with depending on someone to be God's messenger. I'm not saying there have never been prophets. I do believe that there have been: Socrates, Moses, Jesus, Martin Luther King Jr., to name some who essentially saw a better (higher GOoD) way and lead people to it.

I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself but I don't remember if I explained to you some of my background - either way we probably both forgot it! lol
I grew up LDS/Mormon and actually still volunteer (3 "callings"/jobs currently), but I have learned to establish boundaries with the church. My biggest issue with the church is not with the people on the local level (most of who have actively served me or who I've served). My issue is with the men on top who claim to be prophets, and abuse their power through priestcraft, robbing poor of tithes (both in and out of the church) - general financial corruption and teachings that encourage depression, anxiety and punitive shame. I do believe that Joseph Smith (JS) was a prophet - he did in fact see some better ways and lead people to it, however, I also realize he screwed up (nobody's perfect). And Brigham Young after JS died, like Joshua after Moses - were NOT prophets and really mislead people in some evil ways (like polygamy and genocide). I have been treated badly by a church leader basically because I would not worship church "prophets" and instead questioned their evil ways. If someone in my church saw what I'm writing now, I'd be excommunicated. Mormonism is anti-free speech when it comes to their deified church leaders. So, this is part of my reasoning for being skeptical of "messengers" of God. We should never look to anyone as God - it was the 1st of the 10 commandments because it is so tempting.

 

[Trailblazer]

hmmmm.....'you', the individual soul, believes in the individual soul? There are two of you? Have you determined it's location yet?

While I am alive in a physical body, the soul is associated with my body.

It is the ego which creates the notion of an 'individual' soul.

I believe it is God who created the soul and God chose for it to remain a mystery, at least while we are in this mortal world… Undoubtedly, we will understand more about the soul after we die.

“Thou hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel. It is the first among all created things to declare the excellence of its Creator, the first to recognize His glory, to cleave to His truth, and to bow down in adoration before Him.” Gleanings, pp. 158-159

But if such an animal does exist as something 'individual', where does it's outer perimeter end and the world outside of it begin? Without such a limiting perimeter, there can be nothing to call 'individual'.

While we are alive in the physical body the perimeter of the soul is the physical body.

The body is just the outer shell that houses the soul while we are alive on earth, it is not our self…The soul is the human reality, the sum total of our personality…After we leave this mortal world the soul ascends to the spiritual kingdom and takes on another form that that is befitting of its immortality and worthy of its celestial habitation...

“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.” Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194

 

[Trailblazer]

We see today suddenly the arising of women all over the world. After so many centuries? Why? What is happening today in today’s news was written about over 100 years ago and predicted by Abdu’l-Baha. So awesome, The Cause of women has only taken off after Baha’u’llah arrived not before.

Devote ye particular attention to the school for girls, for the greatness of this wondrous Age will be manifested as a result of progress in the world of women. This is why ye observe that in every land the world of women is on the march, and this is due to the impact of the Most Great Manifestation, and the power of the teachings of God.

('Abdu'l-Bahá, from a Tablet - translated from the Persian)

Even today we had women marching and women all over the world marching, literally. His words about marching are literally happening now. The news today and more and more is all about WOMEN. Just incredible.

Everything that is going on all over the world at an ever-escalating pace is incredible! The old world order is collapsing but concurrently a new world order is rising in its stead.

“Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 7

How great is this day, the Day of God!

Psychology is my other hat so I love to analyze human behavior. Why does what is so obvious to us just completely slip by almost everyone else? I think the main reason is that people do not bother to seriously investigate the claim of Baha’u’llah because: (a) if they are a religious believer they are so sure their religion is the only right one, or (b) if they are a nonbeliever or a believer who does not like religion, they do not like the “idea” of Prophets/Messengers of God, or (c) they do not care about God because they are so busy with and attached to the material world of dust.

But also, as we know some people are guided and it is a mystery of God as to why.

“Great indeed is this Day! The allusions made to it in all the sacred Scriptures as the Day of God attest its greatness. The soul of every Prophet of God, of every Divine Messenger, hath thirsted for this wondrous Day. All the divers kindreds of the earth have, likewise, yearned to attain it. No sooner, however, had the Day Star of His Revelation manifested itself in the heaven of God’s Will, than all, except those whom the Almighty was pleased to guide, were found dumbfounded and heedless.” Gleanings, p. 11

However, I do not think it is a complete mystery why some are guided and other are not… I found some clues in the Writings…

“So blind hath become the human heart that neither the disruption of the city, nor the reduction of the mountain in dust, nor even the cleaving of the earth, can shake off its torpor. The allusions made in the Scriptures have been unfolded, and the signs recorded therein have been revealed, and the prophetic cry is continually being raised. And yet all, except such as God was pleased to guide, are bewildered in the drunkenness of their heedlessness!” Gleanings, p. 39

"Some were guided by the Light of God, gained admittance into the court of His presence, and quaffed, from the hand of resignation, the waters of everlasting life, and were accounted of them that have truly recognized and believed in Him. Others rebelled against Him, and rejected the signs of God, the Most Powerful, the Almighty, the All-Wise.” Gleanings, p. 145

However, given what Baha’u’llah said about effort…..

“And now, concerning thy question regarding the creation of man. Know thou that all men have been created in the nature made by God, the Guardian, the Self-Subsisting. Unto each one hath been prescribed a pre-ordained measure, as decreed in God’s mighty and guarded Tablets. All that which ye potentially possess can, however, be manifested only as a result of your own volition. Your own acts testify to this truth…” Gleanings, p. 149

This is really important….

“The incomparable Creator hath created all men from one same substance, and hath exalted their reality above the rest of His creatures. Success or failure, gain or loss, must, therefore, depend upon man’s own exertions. The more he striveth, the greater will be his progress.” Gleanings, pp. 81-82

“Whoso maketh efforts for Us,”he shall enjoy the blessings conferred by the words: “In Our Ways shall We assuredly guide him.”” Gleanings, pp. 266-267

 

[loverofhumanity]

They are not bad interpretations. (The knife is not bad)

People interpret text differently. I interpret human sacrifice wrong. Others say its right. We both live with each other in peace.

We are not seperate from you and ever other individual you talk about "when" saying their scripture is written incorrectly in some places nd read wrong in others.

It took me awhile to understsnd there is no seperation of modern and past. No primitive society. Bias words. Huge generalizations.

How are you different? You read from the same quran. Its not the scriptures or you and many muslis would be going to war too. If it is the religion, why arent you at war?


No. Many would probably kill. Americans get arrested in other countries if not killed for breaking religious laws. I wouldnt be surprised if the Church forcefully converted people if our laws were not against unpeaceful protest.

Its the people. Why didnt I want to go to war and convert?

If my former religion is full of misinterpretations, why did I for good things based on the religion and not bad?

You were former catholic? Why didnt you go to war with others if thats what your former religion promoted?



They do among their own followers in abrahamic traditons. I notice easterners are more closenet among their own cultural peers. Universalist want peace for all people ďispite differences. Many religions accept everyone has their differences as long as they arent disrespecting their own they are fine.

I wasnt divided when I was catholic. Who are you talking about?



Thats why we dont need to reinterpet scriptures. Read it as how tbe culture, history, and people define it as. Address the people.



No. Do you cherry pick the quran?

Who are you speaking of apart from yourself and people on this RF?



No one but present day people have "real" interpretations at that time period. Bahai doesnt no more tban muslim, jew, and christian. We cant go back in time. Though I admire muslim and jew since they kept historical and cultural ties.

Spirituality in the supernatual sense god included is not overall logical. Why did you not want to cause wars if its the scripture and not your personality, upbringing, and/or inner sense of morality of the issue?



Problem is. They teach peace and love as written. Both literal and symbolic.



Whose authority?

We learned what happens in one-person authoritative roles. Why reinvent the wheel?



There is no True meaning of scripture. As long as you go through an intermediary-person and book-you are already far away from what was actually taught. These are Oral religions. If you go to god directly problem solved. Relationship is between you and god.



How do you test scripture validity without the people?

Scripture already promotes peace etc. You cant change most traditions are not universalist.

Not wrong. I dont allow everyone in my home but I dont expect me to go to anyones house. We arent universalist in america and have real privacy issues. Not wrong just different cultures. Doesnt cause wars unless abused.



We disagree. Why would I personally need a global ethic right now?

And

Why do you?



Wow. That one simple phrase made complicated. About the people not scripture.

"Jesus says he is the way to the father."

Where in that says there are other ways besides jesus?



No one has correct information. Once you say you do you are reinvienting the wheel of authority. Try another method. Dictatorship causes wars.



It is what it is. Unless everyone becomes bahai, believes in god, you cant get around that. Everyone would literally need to believe what you believe for you to see peace. Everyone elses is defined by their religions politics. I find that so wrong.

No one would be bahai nor any faith if this were not the truth.

If everyone can accept humanity as one family regardless of differences of belief, race, nationality then we will have peace.

That is the essence of our message. You don’t have to become a Baha’i to love humanity and see it as your own family. When we can achieve this the world will become a very nice place.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Everything that is going on all over the world at an ever-escalating pace is incredible! The old world order is collapsing but concurrently a new world order is rising in its stead.

“Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 7

How great is this day, the Day of God!

Psychology is my other hat so I love to analyze human behavior. Why does what is so obvious to us just completely slip by almost everyone else? I think the main reason is that people do not bother to seriously investigate the claim of Baha’u’llah because: (a) if they are a religious believer they are so sure their religion is the only right one, or (b) if they are a nonbeliever or a believer who does not like religion, they do not like the “idea” of Prophets/Messengers of God, or (c) they do not care about God because they are so busy with and attached to the material world of dust.

But also, as we know some people are guided and it is a mystery of God as to why.

“Great indeed is this Day! The allusions made to it in all the sacred Scriptures as the Day of God attest its greatness. The soul of every Prophet of God, of every Divine Messenger, hath thirsted for this wondrous Day. All the divers kindreds of the earth have, likewise, yearned to attain it. No sooner, however, had the Day Star of His Revelation manifested itself in the heaven of God’s Will, than all, except those whom the Almighty was pleased to guide, were found dumbfounded and heedless.” Gleanings, p. 11

However, I do not think it is a complete mystery why some are guided and other are not… I found some clues in the Writings…

“So blind hath become the human heart that neither the disruption of the city, nor the reduction of the mountain in dust, nor even the cleaving of the earth, can shake off its torpor. The allusions made in the Scriptures have been unfolded, and the signs recorded therein have been revealed, and the prophetic cry is continually being raised. And yet all, except such as God was pleased to guide, are bewildered in the drunkenness of their heedlessness!” Gleanings, p. 39

"Some were guided by the Light of God, gained admittance into the court of His presence, and quaffed, from the hand of resignation, the waters of everlasting life, and were accounted of them that have truly recognized and believed in Him. Others rebelled against Him, and rejected the signs of God, the Most Powerful, the Almighty, the All-Wise.” Gleanings, p. 145

However, given what Baha’u’llah said about effort…..

“And now, concerning thy question regarding the creation of man. Know thou that all men have been created in the nature made by God, the Guardian, the Self-Subsisting. Unto each one hath been prescribed a pre-ordained measure, as decreed in God’s mighty and guarded Tablets. All that which ye potentially possess can, however, be manifested only as a result of your own volition. Your own acts testify to this truth…” Gleanings, p. 149

This is really important….

“The incomparable Creator hath created all men from one same substance, and hath exalted their reality above the rest of His creatures. Success or failure, gain or loss, must, therefore, depend upon man’s own exertions. The more he striveth, the greater will be his progress.” Gleanings, pp. 81-82

“Whoso maketh efforts for Us,”he shall enjoy the blessings conferred by the words: “In Our Ways shall We assuredly guide him.”” Gleanings, pp. 266-267

So, so beautiful. I argue with God everyday, every moment in my heart why He bestowed on me such a precious, priceless, inestimable bounty not only that I can never adequately thank Him for but one which I could never deserve in a thousand lifetimes of being a saint.

I shake my head at why I have been so blest.

 

[Trailblazer]

So, so beautiful. I argue with God everyday, every moment in my heart why He bestowed on me such a precious, priceless, inestimable bounty not only that I can never adequately thank Him for but one which I could never deserve in a thousand lifetimes of being a sant.

I shake my head at why I have been so blest.

Ditto on that!

No matter all the tests and difficulties I have had to endure in this mortal world of dust. It is only temporary.

“O My servants! Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes. You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 329

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If everyone can accept humanity as one family regardless of differences of belief, race, nationality then we will have peace.

That is the essence of our message. You don’t have to become a Baha’i to love humanity and see it as your own family. When we can achieve this the world will become a very nice place.

How do you define peace? One persons peace is to make all christian. Another person's peace is to have our american laws based on religious values. While others here find peace if all the "illegals" are sent back to their own country.

If its just "finding peace" you would need to define it since everyone defines it diferently.

Thr issue is can you have true peace without god? (Csn you have greater peace if you stop at he lessee)?

 

[godnotgod]

My understanding is not that the mind is an illusion but that it is a power of the spirit. It is an attribute of the spirit or soul.

If a soul turns towards material things the mind becomes worldly but if it turns towards heavenly and spiritual things the mind then becomes spiritual.

But don't you see? At the very moment 'a soul turns towards', it has unwittingly created the subject/object split, in this case, one of 'material', and the other of 'spiritual', where no such distinction actually exists in reality.

Meditation is not just about sitting cross legged and focusing on a physical point. It is about the spirit turning towards the spiritual like a mirror faces the sun so the light of reality can be reflected in it.

It is that 'light of reality' which illuminates the fact that Reality is singular and seamless. There is no separation between what you call 'spiritual' and 'material'. In fact, meditation should ideally lead to an internal transformative experience where the subject/object split merges into a single reality, which is precisely why Hindus say: 'Tat tvam asi', ie; 'Thou Art That', and 'there is no self or other'. In the words of Deepak Chopra:

"The spiritual experience is the merging of the observer, the observed, and the entire process of observation into a single reality'.

If the mirror of ones soul or spirit turns towards physical things then one becomes materialistic.

So it’s not just meditating that’s important but what the focal point is.

If one turns in meditation to the Great Teachers like Buddha, Jesus and so on then one is connected with the Source. Also, meditation can be used to calm ones self or study sciences.

But the object of meditation in my understanding is that it should produce something fruitful in this world for ourselves and others, lead to the transformation of the character of the individual and society and make us selfless servants of humanity.

Whether turning toward what one thinks is 'spiritual' or what one thinks is 'material',* as long as that distinction is maintained by the mind, one will continue to dwell in the realm of duality, and it is in duality where there will always exist conflict between the two elements, unless one has realized one's own Enlightenment, in which case such dualities will be in harmony one with the other, as in 'Yin/Yang'. But as long as the mind is operative, it will continue to set up the subject/object split, and the goal of divine union (ie 'yoga') will never be realized. Only when the illusory and discursive mind ceases to interfere, can realization occur. As the great yogi, Patanjali, in his Yoga Sutras states:

"Yoga [divine union] is the cessation of all of the activities of the mind"

*Zen masters, when asked questions pertaining to anything spiritual, will always respond with something that points to the ordinary and everyday of life. For example:

A monk told Joshu: “I have just entered the monastery. Please teach me.”
Joshu asked: “Have you eaten your rice porridge?”
The monk replied: “I have eaten.”
Joshu said: “Then you had better wash your bowl.”
At that moment the monk was enlightened.

The object of meditation is meditation itself. If you are practicing meditation in order to 'get' something, you are wasting your time. There is nothing to get, nor anyone who gets it. Realize that and you will realize your own Enlightenment. Don't think; just see. The rest will take care of itself. Trusting that it will is called 'faith'.