Is God a Mystery that Will Never be Solved?

[godnotgod]

My understanding is not that the mind is an illusion but that it is a power of the spirit. It is an attribute of the spirit or soul.

It is consciousness asleep in the state of Identification, in which one thinks oneself a separate ego, acting upon a 'material' world. Spiritual awakening is the realization that the mind and all of it's creations, including the self, are illusory. Only the awakened state is real.

On the second level of consciousness, that of sleep with dreams, one thinks the character one plays and the dream-world one plays in, are real. Only upon awakening onto the third level (ie Waking Sleep; Identification) does one realize the illusory quality of the dream. Likewise, a yet higher awakening onto the fourth level (ie Self-Transcendene) is the realization that this 'material' world and the character called 'I', are fictional.

No-mind in Zen

The discriminating mind (from the article above) is the mind of the subject/object split which I previously pointed out.

 

[godnotgod]

The body is just the outer shell that houses the soul while we are alive on earth, it is not our self…The soul is the human reality, the sum total of our personality…After we leave this mortal world the soul ascends to the spiritual kingdom and takes on another form that that is befitting of its immortality and worthy of its celestial habitation...

“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.” Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194

In the words of Shunryu Suzuki: 'The idea of 'another realm' is 'just a substantial, delusive idea'. What 'other world' are you (or Baha), referring to?

The body is considered a material entity. How can a material entity with a perimeter contain that which is non-material, such as a 'soul'? Certainly there is a presence beyond that of the body alone, but to say that it is an entity called 'a soul' is just a creation of the conceptual mind. It would be like a fish saying that it has 'a sea' that must be saved so it can go to fish heaven, when the reality is that it is already in fish heaven. IOW, what I am suggesting to you, is that what you call an individual 'soul' is the mind making a mistake in thinking that what is universal consciousness that is both inside and outside of us, somehow is a singular entity contained within the body alone. In that case, there is no such individual 'soul' but soul itself, like the sea in which the fish swims in. It is the sea which contains the fish, and not the other way around.

 

[Trailblazer]

In the words of Shunryu Suzuki: 'The idea of 'another realm' is 'just a substantial, delusive idea'. What 'other world' are you (or Baha), referring to?

The only world humans can see now is the earth world, but after we die we will discover the worlds beyond this one.

“As to thy question concerning the worlds of God. Know thou of a truth that the worlds of God are countless in their number, and infinite in their range. None can reckon or comprehend them except God, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise…..” Gleanings, pp. 151-152

“If any man be told that which hath been ordained for such a soul in the worlds of God, the Lord of the throne on high and of earth below, his whole being will instantly blaze out in his great longing to attain that most exalted, that sanctified and resplendent station…. The nature of the soul after death can never be described, nor is it meet and permissible to reveal its whole character to the eyes of men.” Gleanings, p. 156

“The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation.” Gleanings, p. 157

“O My servants! Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes. You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.” Gleanings, p. 329

IThe body is considered a material entity. How can a material entity with a perimeter contain that which is non-material, such as a 'soul'? Certainly there is a presence beyond that of the body alone, but to say that it is an entity called 'a soul' is just a creation of the conceptual mind.

The body does not "contain" the soul... The soul is somehow "associated" with the body while we are alive on earth... We cannot understand how that works because the nature of the soul is a mystery that no human mind can grasp. The entity called the soul is a creation of God.

“Thou hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel. It is the first among all created things to declare the excellence of its Creator, the first to recognize His glory, to cleave to His truth, and to bow down in adoration before Him.” Gleanings, pp. 158-159

IIOW, what I am suggesting to you, is that what you call an individual 'soul' is the mind making a mistake in thinking that what is universal consciousness that is both inside and outside of us, somehow is a singular entity contained within the body alone. In that case, there is no such individual 'soul' but soul itself, like the sea in which the fish swims in. It is the sea which contains the fish, and not the other way around.

I believe there is a universal consciousness, but that does not negate an individual consciousness within the universal.

 

[loverofhumanity]

How do you define peace? One persons peace is to make all christian. Another person's peace is to have our american laws based on religious values. While others here find peace if all the "illegals" are sent back to their own country.

If its just "finding peace" you would need to define it since everyone defines it diferently.

Thr issue is can you have true peace without god? (Csn you have greater peace if you stop at he lessee)?

I think that truth and things like peace are relative not absolute terms so even war, a just war may lead to peace.

Each age has its needs and requirements so I personally go with what the Manifestations teach in each age as the thing most important and relative. In this age it’s unity. At another age it might be some other emphasis. But the definitions of true peace and true religion and things like truth, I don’t rely on my interpretation or others but whatever the Manifestation reveals.

So for this age I wouldn’t go with peoples definition of peace but Bahaullah’s because I believe His knowledge comes from God.

According to Baha’u’llah one cannot have true peace without God.Here is what He says. This is what the Voice of God claims in this Hidden Word from Baha’u’llah. The ‘Me’ I understand is referring to God.


“O Son of Spirit!

There is no peace for thee save by renouncing thyself and turning unto Me; for it behooveth thee to glory in My name, not in thine own; to put thy trust in Me and not in thyself, since I desire to be loved alone and above all that is.”

Excerpt From
The Hidden Words
Bahá'u'lláh

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I think that truth and things like peace are relative not absolute terms so even war, a just war may lead to peace.

Each age has its needs and requirements so I personally go with whatnthe Manifestations teach in each age as the thing most important and real active. In this age it’s unity. At another age it might be some other emphasis. But the definitions of true peace and terse religion and things like truth, I don’t rely on my interpretation or others but whatever the Manifestation reveals.

So for this age I wouldn’t go with peoples definition of peace but Bahaullah’s because I believe His knowledge comes from God.

According to Baha’u’llah one cannot have true peace without God.Here is what He says. This is what the Voice of God claims i this Hidden Word from Baha’u’llah. The ‘Me’ I understand is referring to God.


“O Son of Spirit!

There is no peace for thee save by renouncing thyself and turning unto Me; for it behooveth thee to glory in My name, not in thine own; to put thy trust in Me and not in thyself, since I desire to be loved alone and above all that is.”

Excerpt From
The Hidden Words
Bahá'u'lláh

I think you kinda prove my overall point. Its alright to have beliefs of your definition of peace just as the rest of us. The issue isnt peace. Without god, there is no peace. With god, there is no peace. Unity means both have to compromise their version for the benefit of the whole. One needs to give up god and the other needs to believe in god.

Since we cant logically (objectively) do one or the other, to me it does not make sense to say unity among diversity when your post says that through god only then we will have peace.

Though I had two other questions on a totally different topic since you know my view on peace. The time differences between ballauah, my great grandmother, and ourselves are so close together that if my great grandmother met bahaullah when she was young would bahaullah still be called from god? If so, when that divinity calling stop? If not, why not?

 

[Trailblazer]

I don’t rely on my interpretation or others but whatever the Manifestation reveals.

 

[loverofhumanity]

But don't you see? At the very moment 'a soul turns towards', it has unwittingly created the subject/object split, in this case, one of 'material', and the other of 'spiritual', where no such distinction actually exists in reality.



It is that 'light of reality' which illuminates the fact that Reality is singular and seamless. There is no separation between what you call 'spiritual' and 'material'. In fact, meditation should ideally lead to an internal transformative experience where the subject/object split merges into a single reality, which is precisely why Hindus say: 'Tat tvam asi', ie; 'Thou Art That', and 'there is no self or other'. In the words of Deepak Chopra:

"The spiritual experience is the merging of the observer, the observed, and the entire process of observation into a single reality'.



Whether turning toward what one thinks is 'spiritual' or what one thinks is 'material',* as long as that distinction is maintained by the mind, one will continue to dwell in the realm of duality, and it is in duality where there will always exist conflict between the two elements, unless one has realized one's own Enlightenment, in which case such dualities will be in harmony one with the other, as in 'Yin/Yang'. But as long as the mind is operative, it will continue to set up the subject/object split, and the goal of divine union (ie 'yoga') will never be realized. Only when the illusory and discursive mind ceases to interfere, can realization occur. As the great yogi, Patanjali, in his Yoga Sutras states:

"Yoga [divine union] is the cessation of all of the activities of the mind"

*Zen masters, when asked questions pertaining to anything spiritual, will always respond with something that points to the ordinary and everyday of life. For example:

A monk told Joshu: “I have just entered the monastery. Please teach me.”
Joshu asked: “Have you eaten your rice porridge?”
The monk replied: “I have eaten.”
Joshu said: “Then you had better wash your bowl.”
At that moment the monk was enlightened.

The object of meditation is meditation itself. If you are practicing meditation in order to 'get' something, you are wasting your time. There is nothing to get, nor anyone who gets it. Realize that and you will realize your own Enlightenment. Don't think; just see. The rest will take care of itself. Trusting that it will is called 'faith'.

I think it largely depends on who you get your definition of meditation from.

I believe the Prophets of God teach the correct methods of meditation. It us their teachings that transform the world.

Unless one has attained to the ‘Divine Presence’ meditation is of no value even should one meditate for an eternity because the true object of meditation is to recognize this Presence.

When one’s meditation leads to this furthered summit of learning then a person has attained the acme of knowledge.

Meditation just cross legged with eyes closed is not true meditation unless it leads to the ‘Divine Presence’.

 

[loverofhumanity]

It is consciousness asleep in the state of Identification, in which one thinks oneself a separate ego, acting upon a 'material' world. Spiritual awakening is the realization that the mind and all of it's creations, including the self, are illusory. Only the awakened state is real.

On the second level of consciousness, that of sleep with dreams, one thinks the character one plays and the dream-world one plays in, are real. Only upon awakening onto the third level (ie Waking Sleep; Identification) does one realize the illusory quality of the dream. Likewise, a yet higher awakening onto the fourth level (ie Self-Transcendene) is the realization that this 'material' world and the character called 'I', are fictional.

No-mind in Zen

The discriminating mind (from the article above) is the mind of the subject/object split which I previously pointed out.

My understanding is that self mastery is all about forgetting the self.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I think you kinda prove my overall point. Its alright to have beliefs of your definition of peace just as the rest of us. The issue isnt peace. Without god, there is no peace. With god, there is no peace. Unity means both have to compromise their version for the benefit of the whole. One needs to give up god and the other needs to believe in god.

Since we cant logically (objectively) do one or the other, to me it does not make sense to say unity among diversity when your post says that through god only then we will have peace.

Though I had two other questions on a totally different topic since you know my view on peace. The time differences between ballauah, my great grandmother, and ourselves are so close together that if my great grandmother met bahaullah when she was young would bahaullah still be called from god? If so, when that divinity calling stop? If not, why not?

I don’t think anyone has to give up anything. As long as we accept that all humanity are our family and rise above prejudices of race, religion, nationality and gender, that’s perfectly fine.

No one has to change or accept God or become a Baha’i.

Baha’u’llah is only asking humanity to accept each other, love one another and respect each other’s differences and in that sense, accept all humanity as ones family.

So if we replaced having to accept God with having to accept all humanity as the only thing that could guarantee peace that would be the same thing as Whom do you think is the One Who is asking acceptance and tolerance of all humanity? God.

So acceptance of all humanity without prejudice is acceptance of God’s major teachings for this age.

So we needn’t use the word God because none of us know God. So acceptance of the unity of humanity is the same as accepting God’s teachings as that is His main plan for this age.

So even though a person may not accept God’s existence, people may still choose to accept His Teachings whilst at the same time disbelieving in Him.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I don’t think anyone has to give up anything. As long as we accept that all humanity are our family and rise above prejudices of race, religion, nationality and gender, that’s perfectly fine.

No one has to change or accept God or become a Baha’i.

Baha’u’llah is only asking humanity to accept each other, love one another and respect each other’s differences and in that sense, accept all humanity as ones family.

So if we replaced having to accept God with having to accept all humanity as the only thing that could guarantee peace that would be the same thing as Whom do you think is the One Who is asking acceptance and tolerance of all humanity? God.

So acceptance of all humanity without prejudice is acceptance of God’s major teachings for this age.

So we needn’t use the word God because none of us know God. So acceptance of the unity of humanity is the same as accepting God’s teachings as that is His main plan for this age.

So even though a person may not accept God’s existence, people may still choose to accept His Teachings whilst at the same time disbelieving in Him.

Think about it objectively and simply. I don't believe in god. You do. You mentioned that peace (greater) comes from god. In your faith, how would we have greater peace when I need to believe in god for this to be possible?

My belief doesn't matter right now. In your view.

This is going in circles. What about the age question. Do bahai have an answer? (Scientologist? John Smith I think?) The religions in the 1800s.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, I'm a believer of many things, yet I have a problem with depending on someone to be God's messenger. I'm not saying there have never been prophets. I do believe that there have been: Socrates, Moses, Jesus, Martin Luther King Jr., to name some who essentially saw a better (higher GOoD) way and lead people to it.

I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself but I don't remember if I explained to you some of my background - either way we probably both forgot it! lol
I grew up LDS/Mormon and actually still volunteer (3 "callings"/jobs currently), but I have learned to establish boundaries with the church. My biggest issue with the church is not with the people on the local level (most of who have actively served me or who I've served). My issue is with the men on top who claim to be prophets, and abuse their power through priestcraft, robbing poor of tithes (both in and out of the church) - general financial corruption and teachings that encourage depression, anxiety and punitive shame. I do believe that Joseph Smith (JS) was a prophet - he did in fact see some better ways and lead people to it, however, I also realize he screwed up (nobody's perfect). And Brigham Young after JS died, like Joshua after Moses - were NOT prophets and really mislead people in some evil ways (like polygamy and genocide). I have been treated badly by a church leader basically because I would not worship church "prophets" and instead questioned their evil ways. If someone in my church saw what I'm writing now, I'd be excommunicated. Mormonism is anti-free speech when it comes to their deified church leaders. So, this is part of my reasoning for being skeptical of "messengers" of God. We should never look to anyone as God - it was the 1st of the 10 commandments because it is so tempting.

Thanks for sharing all of that No, I do not remember you sharing it before. I was not aware that the Mormon Church is so controlling. Baha’is do not believe that Joseph Smith was a Prophet for the simple reason that we do not believe he ever received a revelation from God, but we do believe he was a seer.

“As for the status of Joseph Smith, founder of the Mormon Faith, he is not considered by Bahá’ís to be a prophet, minor or otherwise. But of course he was a religious teacher sensitive to the spiritual currents flowing in the early 19th century directly from the appearance of the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh and the Revelation of Their Messages of hope and Divine Guidance. In this respect you might find chapter ten in the late Hand of the Cause George Townshend’s book, ‘Christ and Bahá’u’lláh,’ interesting.”
(Universal House of Justice, Lights of Guidance, p. 511) http://www.bahaiquotes.com/quotepage.php

I agree we should never look up to anyone but God and Baha’u’llah wrote that we are to worship nobody BUT God. Baha’u’llah claimed to be a Manifestation of God, a Representative of God, a Servant and a Messenger of God, but He never claimed to be God. To keep it simple, Baha’is believe only those who God speaks to through the Holy Spirit are Messengers of God, whom we normally refer to as Manifestations of God, since they manifest God on earth. They reflect God’s attributes and reveal the Will of God for the age of history in which they appear, but they do not claim to reveal the Essence of God, or even to know it; nobody can know God’s Essence (intrinsic nature) since God is above all that can either be recounted or perceived.

Most of what Baha’u’llah wrote about God was regarding His Unknowable Essence. However, we know that God loves us and cares about things such as unity, peace and justice in the world because Baha’u’llah revealed that. Essentially, Baha’is do not believe we can ever know anything about God or gain near access to God except through a Messenger, which is similar to what Jesus said in John 14:6 “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

When Jesus said He was the Way, Jesus was referring to that time period in history and He meant that He was the Only Way during his Dispensation, which He was. But clearly, Jesus said that another would succeed Him and convey the “many things” that people could not “bear” back then (John 16:12-13).

When Muhammad came He was “the Way” and then when the Bab and Baha’u’llah came they were “the Way” because God sent them to humanity with a new message which was pertinent to the times in which we lived... That is what Baha’is refer to as Progressive Revelation which is the crux of Baha’i theology, that God has always sent Messengers and will continue to send them throughout all eternity.

Sorry to throw out so much information at once... Please let me know if you have any questions.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Comments?

Does the rabbit hole ever end?

BONUS QUESTION: Are there benefits to being uncertain about god?

It helps reduce the chance you'll look like a total ******* in front of "god" if we are actually judged? Gives us a sincerely held "we had no idea what we was doing?"

 

[Sha'irullah]

God was already a solved fact the minute we took place in the holy sacramental microwaving of Maruchan ® Ramen.

"For thine is the noodle and the seasoning packet and ye has risen from bowl to come to lips as a high sodium meal" ~ Book of Maruchan

"If ye hath greater noodle let he slurpeth in loudness so all shall bear witness. Slurpeth in comfort as thou hath risen in sodium as I hath risen to the Divine Colander" ~ Book of Maruchan

THe truth of Pastafarianism has been reveal eons ago with Italians and Chinese. I think you are forgetting the important factors here @Sunstone in that we all know our lord is real and loves us. He hath given us both Maruchan ® Chicken and Maruchan ® Beef.

 

[godnotgod]

The only world humans can see now is the earth world, but after we die we will discover the worlds beyond this one.

The only world you can experience as real is the one you find yourself in now, whether you are here, there, or elsewhere. They are all 'this' world.. All 'other' worlds are still 'this' world, since all such 'worlds' are seamlessly interconnected as one.

The body does not "contain" the soul... The soul is somehow "associated" with the body while we are alive on earth... We cannot understand how that works because the nature of the soul is a mystery that no human mind can grasp. The entity called the soul is a creation of God.

I believe there is a universal consciousness, but that does not negate an individual consciousness within the universal.

Now we are back to square one. The 'individual consciousness' is called 'I', 'self', 'soul', 'ego', and 'mind'. What is it that confirms the individual consciousness as real? Why, 'I', of course! The mind that is 'I' is a self-created principle. As long as the discursive, discriminating mind is active, it is creating subject and object; thinking 'you' and 'I', and re-creating 'I' at every moment of the day. Why? Because the ego does not want to die. It plays every trick in the book to perpetuate itself, even to the point of creating an idea of a 'heaven' where it has earned a right to entry, while condemning the unworthy to some hell (in the name of God, of course). Once the facade of individual consciousness called 'I' is pierced, only universal consciousness is seen as real. It is for these reasons that meditation is so valuable. In meditation, the discursive mind (ie 'monkey mind') is subdued, and universal mind comes into play.

The wave, were it able to think, does not think itself separate from the ocean out of which it emerged, and to which it returns.

The snowflake pattern, though unique, would not think itself separate from the very patternlless water it is composed of.

To think one's consciousness as separate from universal consciousness is a trick of the mind that one unwittingly puts stock into. Again, only upon the cessation of all of the activities of the mind can divine union occur.

 

[godnotgod]

God was already a solved fact the minute we took place in the holy sacramental microwaving of Maruchan ® Ramen.

"For thine is the noodle and the seasoning packet and ye has risen from bowl to come to lips as a high sodium meal" ~ Book of Maruchan

"If ye hath greater noodle let he slurpeth in loudness so all shall bear witness. Slurpeth in comfort as thou hath risen in sodium as I hath risen to the Divine Colander" ~ Book of Maruchan

THe truth of Pastafarianism has been reveal eons ago with Italians and Chinese. I think you are forgetting the important factors here @Sunstone in that we all know our lord is real and loves us. He hath given us both Maruchan ® Chicken and Maruchan ® Beef.

...oh, and shrimp and pork, too!....hallelujah!............uh.......PORK?

 

[godnotgod]

My understanding is that self mastery is all about forgetting the self.

Yes, because realization sees that the nature of the self is emptiness, and That which sees and knows it as empty is your true nature.

 

[godnotgod]

I think it largely depends on who you get your definition of meditation from.

I believe the Prophets of God teach the correct methods of meditation. It us their teachings that transform the world.

Unless one has attained to the ‘Divine Presence’ meditation is of no value even should one meditate for an eternity because the true object of meditation is to recognize this Presence.

When one’s meditation leads to this furthered summit of learning then a person has attained the acme of knowledge.

Meditation just cross legged with eyes closed is not true meditation unless it leads to the ‘Divine Presence’.

If, in being led to the Divine Presence, there continues to remain the subject/object split, then divine union has not yet been realized. The authentic spiritual experience is one in which there is complete merging with the divine essence, in which the notion of 'self and other' no longer exists, and in which the realization occurs that one is none other than That; that one has always been That; and that it is That which is playing Itself as The Universe, of which you are part and parcel. But if you are none other than That, then who is it that is being 'led to the Divine Presence', if not the Divine Presence itself? Such 'becoming' is an illusion that is realized upon awakening from the dream of Identification.

"The spiritual experience is the merging of the observer, the observed, and the entire process of observation into a single Reality"
Deepak Chopra

There is no correct method of meditation. What is important is the transformation of consciousness in which one sees things as they are. That is all.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Think about it objectively and simply. I don't believe in god. You do. You mentioned that peace (greater) comes from god. In your faith, how would we have greater peace when I need to believe in god for this to be possible?

My belief doesn't matter right now. In your view.

This is going in circles. What about the age question. Do bahai have an answer? (Scientologist? John Smith I think?) The religions in the 1800s.

Peace will come as we begin to acknowledge our common humanity. This is also the teaching of God for this age that we learn to see humanity as one family. We are getting there.

Age question? What do you mean?

 

[loverofhumanity]

If, in being led to the Divine Presence, there continues to remain the subject/object split, then divine union has not yet been realized. The authentic spiritual experience is one in which there is complete merging with the divine essence, in which the notion of 'self and other' no longer exists, and in which the realization occurs that one is none other than That; that one has always been That; and that it is That which is playing Itself as The Universe, of which you are part and parcel. But if you are none other than That, then who is it that is being 'led to the Divine Presence', if not the Divine Presence itself? Such 'becoming' is an illusion that is realized upon awakening from the dream of Identification.

"The spiritual experience is the merging of the observer, the observed, and the entire process of observation into a single Reality"
Deepak Chopra

There is no correct method of meditation. What is important is the transformation of consciousness in which one sees things as they are. That is all.

When one has reached the Divine Presence, this is the furthermost summit in this world. No mystic knower can reach a higher plane than this on this earthly plane. God willing you will reach it if you can be wholly detached from self.

 

[godnotgod]

When one has reached the Divine Presence, this is the furthermost summit in this world. No mystic knower can reach a higher plane than this on this earthly plane. God willing you will reach it if you can be wholly detached from self.

There is no self to detach from, nor anyone who detaches from it. If you continue on this path of detachment, of arriving, of becoming; there will always be a self trying to detach from itself; of becoming; or arriving. It can't because it is an illusion. Once this is realized, it will be seen that one has never left the Diving Presence, not by one iota. Any such thoughts of separation and division; of becoming; of 'self and other', are delusional. The mystic knower and the known at last are one, as they have always been, but were mistakenly seen as two.

All one can do is to awaken, here, now, to what is.*

The Divine Presence can never be an object of the mind. Maintaining the DP as an object of the mind is one step away from union with the DP.

Who is it that 'reaches the Divine Presence'?

Buddhists say: 'If you see The Buddha on the road, kill him!"

A story:

A man dies and goes to heaven. He knocks on the Pearly Gates, only to hear a voice from within ask: "Who goes there?", to which he responds: 'It is ME, Lord'. The voice replies: 'There are no such 'Me's here. Begone!', at which the man retreats, totally perplexed. He stays away for a full week to contemplate the problem. He then returns and now knocks more aggressively on the Gates. From within, the voice asks: 'Who is it this time?', at which the man replies: 'ME, Lord! You know! ME! ME! ME!. And the voice again demands that he go away. This time the man stays away for an entire year, then humbly returns to the Gates, and knocks softly. "Yes?" asks the voice from within. 'Who knocks now?', at which the man replies:

"Why, it is none other than YOU , Oh Lord!",

at which the Gates swing wide open.

* "All this world is filled with coming and going (ie; 'birth and death');
show me the path where there is no coming and there is no going."
Zen source