Is God a Mystery that Will Never be Solved?

[Jollybear]

They blindly follow








blind obedience is essentially doing something because you are told, you adhere to the rules because they are the rules.

For instance the Bible. If a man would follow, today, the teachings of the Old Testament, he would be a criminal. If he would strictly follow the teachings of the New, he would be insane. But the Bible is the word of god and god is absolute truth. So people will following it blindly.

What’s bigger then thy self? Gods

If you mean "they", then why did you say "ALL" creatures want to believe in something higher then themselves? Your not including your self? You set yourself above every other human being?

Also, i didnt ask you about the old and new testament. I asked you if you believe something higher then yourself and if you blindly believe or follow something?

Also if i may add, your statement about the old testament assumes a interpretation paradigm. If that interpretation is correct, then yes according to todays standards, CERTAIN things would be a crime.

But if your interpretation be wrong, then those things would not be a crime.

Also, if your interpretation be correct, it matters not since that time was a different time and culture.

Also, your statement about the new testament, how would one be insane following it? I dont follow

 

[Prometheus85]

If you mean "they", then why did you say "ALL" creatures want to believe in something higher then themselves? Your not including your self? You set yourself above every other human being?

Also, i didnt ask you about the old and new testament. I asked you if you believe something higher then yourself and if you blindly believe or follow something?

Also if i may add, your statement about the old testament assumes a interpretation paradigm. If that interpretation is correct, then yes according to todays standards, CERTAIN things would be a crime.

But if your interpretation be wrong, then those things would not be a crime.

Also, if your interpretation be correct, it matters not since that time was a different time and culture.

Also, your statement about the new testament, how would one be insane following it? I dont follow

I don’t understand your first question?

You say u were asking ‘me’ if I follow bilndy and if I believe in something higher than myself? No I don’t blindly and unquestioningly follow. Nor do I believe in something higher than myself.

And what you call my interpretation, is a fact.

In the Old Testament

• God is portrayed as mean, cranky, egotistical, and petty.
  • He destroys cute kittens, new-born babies, and kiwi birds (death by drowning is, by the way, apparently extremely traumatic) just because his humans started acting, well, human.
  • He sends a bear to maul 40 kids because they taunted his prophet.
  • He tells a dude that he must kill his own son, proving that He, God, is more loved by this dude than the kid.
  • He demands that only the pure and healthy can come worship him. Even those who were scarred in battle for God are not worthy of God's presence.

• The morality of the people of the time is quite different from our own.
  • Women and children were seen as property to be disposed of as necessary – under proper religious guidance, of course.
  • Rape was a sexual crime committed by both people. Women could be stoned to death unless the rapist wanted to marry them.
  • Slavery was, if not common, quite accepted. Even God himself tells his people to go to war for him, and take the women as slaves.
• The laws in place are troubling for modern Christians and religious Jews, beyond those mentioned above.
  • Divorce was unacceptable in most cases.
  • Eating shellfish was not allowed.
  • In fact there are a whole host of foods that cannot be eaten, clothing that must or must not be worn, prayers that must be said... Those "strange" rites (or at least this is how most Christians see the rites) of Jews like keeping Kosher and not working on the Sabbath are "Old Testament" laws, which really never were rewritten.
• Violence in the name of God and Truth is not only possible, it's morally required. (Kill the infidels started not with Islam and the Qur'an, but the Hebrews, a thousand years earlier).

So yeah. In today’s society all of those laws above would be considered crimes.

And to answer your last question about following the teachings of the New Testament.

Many Christians disregard the Old Testament and adhere to the new. First of all the New Testament makes no sense at all without the old. Jesus saw the Old Testament as being God’s Word, and his attitude toward it was nothing less than total trust. Many people want to accept Jesus, yet they reject a large portion of the Old Testament. Either Jesus knew what he was talking about, or he didn’t. If a person believes in Jesus Christ, he should be consistent and believe that the Old Testament and its accounts are correct."

If you disregard the Old Testament and strictly follow the new then that’s insane.

 

[Jollybear]

I don’t understand your first question?

You say u were asking ‘me’ if I follow bilndy and if I believe in something higher than myself? No I don’t blindly and unquestioningly follow. Nor do I believe in something higher than myself.

And what you call my interpretation, is a fact.

In the Old Testament

• God is portrayed as mean, cranky, egotistical, and petty.
  • He destroys cute kittens, new-born babies, and kiwi birds (death by drowning is, by the way, apparently extremely traumatic) just because his humans started acting, well, human.
  • He sends a bear to maul 40 kids because they taunted his prophet.
  • He tells a dude that he must kill his own son, proving that He, God, is more loved by this dude than the kid.
  • He demands that only the pure and healthy can come worship him. Even those who were scarred in battle for God are not worthy of God's presence.

• The morality of the people of the time is quite different from our own.
  • Women and children were seen as property to be disposed of as necessary – under proper religious guidance, of course.
  • Rape was a sexual crime committed by both people. Women could be stoned to death unless the rapist wanted to marry them.
  • Slavery was, if not common, quite accepted. Even God himself tells his people to go to war for him, and take the women as slaves.
• The laws in place are troubling for modern Christians and religious Jews, beyond those mentioned above.
  • Divorce was unacceptable in most cases.
  • Eating shellfish was not allowed.
  • In fact there are a whole host of foods that cannot be eaten, clothing that must or must not be worn, prayers that must be said... Those "strange" rites (or at least this is how most Christians see the rites) of Jews like keeping Kosher and not working on the Sabbath are "Old Testament" laws, which really never were rewritten.
• Violence in the name of God and Truth is not only possible, it's morally required. (Kill the infidels started not with Islam and the Qur'an, but the Hebrews, a thousand years earlier).

So yeah. In today’s society all of those laws above would be considered crimes.

And to answer your last question about following the teachings of the New Testament.

Many Christians disregard the Old Testament and adhere to the new. First of all the New Testament makes no sense at all without the old. Jesus saw the Old Testament as being God’s Word, and his attitude toward it was nothing less than total trust. Many people want to accept Jesus, yet they reject a large portion of the Old Testament. Either Jesus knew what he was talking about, or he didn’t. If a person believes in Jesus Christ, he should be consistent and believe that the Old Testament and its accounts are correct."

If you disregard the Old Testament and strictly follow the new then that’s insane.

I dont even know where to begin with all these issues you opened up here.

Each one of these issues are deserving of there own seperate thread.

Alot of what you said here is misconstrued, some of its correct.

I dont even know where to begin.

Lets just take one randomely. Killing Gods son.

That was not to prove jesus loved God. That was to prove God/Jesus loved the world that he sacrificed himself as a ransome.

The other issues, i could respond, but it take too much time. They all need seperate threads.

 

[Prometheus85]

I dont even know where to begin with all these issues you opened up here.

Each one of these issues are deserving of there own seperate thread.

Alot of what you said here is misconstrued, some of its correct.

I dont even know where to begin.

Lets just take one randomely. Killing Gods son.

That was not to prove jesus loved God. That was to prove God/Jesus loved the world that he sacrificed himself as a ransome.

The other issues, i could respond, but it take too much time. They all need seperate threads.

Lol when I said god tells a dude to kill his son I was referencing the binding of Isaac.

If going to debate with someone make sure your informed and understand what your debating.

 

[godnotgod]

I do not need a religious belief to know there is a self. That concept is found in both philosophy and psychology. A person cannot have self-awareness if they have no self, for example. What is it that you think they are aware of?

You see? The mind has now created an illusory subject/object split. If you take the time to observe carefully how the mind operates, you will witness this creation as it occurs.

You referred to the self as 'that concept'. And that is what it is: a concept; an idea; an image; the product of thought.

A person cannot have a self unless they are thinking. Without thought, no such self exists.

"I think, therefore I exist"
Rene Descartes
*****

"I think it helps to compare the experience of self to subjective contours – illusions such as the Kanizsa pattern...



...where you see an invisible shape that is really defined entirely by the surrounding context. People understand that it is a trick of the mind but what they may not appreciate is that the brain is actually generating the neural activation as if the illusory shape was really there. In other words, the brain is hallucinating the experience. There are now many studies revealing that illusions generate brain activity as if they existed. They are not real but the brain treats them as if they were.


Now that line of reasoning could be applied to all perception except that not all perception is an illusion. There are real shapes out there in the world and other physical regularities that generate reliable states in the minds of others. The reason that the status of reality cannot be applied to the self, is that it does not exist independently of my brain alone that is having the experience. It may appear to have a consistency of regularity and stability that makes it seem real, but those properties alone do not make it so"

The Illusion of the Self | Sam Harris

 

[Jollybear]

Lol when I said god tells a dude to kill his son I was referencing the binding of Isaac.

If going to debate with someone make sure your informed and understand what your debating.

Ok, my mistake. I simply misunderstood you there. But i am aware of isaac and abraham.

Notice though God stopped abraham from killing his son? Dont gloss over that part. It was a test of abrahams faith. Was he having faith in God to make him a great nation or trusting his son to bring it about? That was the test. And God didnt let him follow through with killing isaac.

 

[Prometheus85]

Ok, my mistake. I simply misunderstood you there. But i am aware of isaac and abraham.

Notice though God stopped abraham from killing his son? Dont gloss over that part. It was a test of abrahams faith. Was he having faith in God to make him a great nation or trusting his son to bring it about? That was the test. And God didnt let him follow through with killing isaac.

What type of god tells a man to kill his son as a test of devotion?

Abraham was actually gonna slaughter his son and god did not try to stop him.

Abraham is stopped by an angel who chucks him a ram to be sacrificed instead. If Abraham lived today he would be incarcerated for trying to murder his child and would probably be given psychological treatment.

Last but not least.

Abraham Should’ve Raised This Point When God Told Him to Kill His Son

God: Hey Abraham
Abraham: yes god?
God: Kill your son.
Abraham: lol c’mon god. Everybody knows that would be a absolute terrible thing to do.
Abraham: oh hey...god?
God: what?
Abraham: where’s Jesus?

I imagine God would’ve responded to Abraham with a long pause, followed by I’m just
Keeeeding!

Remember when we talked about blind obedience and if you follow the teachings of the Old Testament today you would be a criminal lol

 

[Prometheus85]

Ok, my mistake. I simply misunderstood you there. But i am aware of isaac and abraham.

Notice though God stopped abraham from killing his son? Dont gloss over that part. It was a test of abrahams faith. Was he having faith in God to make him a great nation or trusting his son to bring it about? That was the test. And God didnt let him follow through with killing isaac.

And if you’re aware of the story like u say u are then you would’ve said god stopped him lol

 

[Jollybear]

What type of god tells a man to kill his son as a test of devotion?

Abraham was actually gonna slaughter his son and god did not try to stop him.

Abraham is stopped by an angel who chucks him a ram to be sacrificed instead. If Abraham lived today he would be incarcerated for trying to murder his child and would probably be given psychological treatment.

Last but not least.

Abraham Should’ve Raised This Point When God Told Him to Kill His Son

God: Hey Abraham
Abraham: yes god?
God: Kill your son.
Abraham: lol c’mon god. Everybody knows that would be a absolute terrible thing to do.
Abraham: oh hey...god?
God: what?
Abraham: where’s Jesus?

I imagine God would’ve responded to Abraham with a long pause, followed by I’m just
Keeeeding!

Remember when we talked about blind obedience and if you follow the teachings of the Old Testament today you would be a criminal lol

The angel is Gods servent messenger. God basically stopped abraham from killing his son. Arguing that point is a bit mute.

And if God gave abrahams son to him by a miracle in his old age, then abraham would have reasoned God could raise his son back from death. And thus still fullfil the promise of the great nation from his offspring. Even the new testament said this about abraham reasoning that.

 

[Trailblazer]

Nor do I believe in something higher than myself.

Taken as written, that means that you are the highest entity that exists. Is that what you meant?

 

[Prometheus85]

Taken as written, that means that you are the highest entity that exists. Is that what you meant?

No. That’s means I believe in myself.

 

[Trailblazer]

No. That’s means I believe in myself.

Okay thanks. There is nothing wrong with that.

I guess that means you can handle anything that comes your way without a "Higher Power" which some people choose to call God.

I tried doing that for most of my life, but I fell flat on my face a few years ago. Mind you, I am not saying I think God is "doing anything" at all... I just like the idea that He is there for me to call upon... Kind of silly huh?

 

[Prometheus85]

Okay thanks. There is nothing wrong with that.

I guess that means you can handle anything that comes your way without a "Higher Power" which some people choose to call God.

I tried doing that for most of my life, but I fell flat on my face a few years ago. Mind you, I am not saying I think God is "doing anything" at all... I just like the idea that He is there for me to call upon... Kind of silly huh?

Yes. It is. The concept of divine God/s was made up by leaders or governors in ancient history, and it was a good thing to satisfy humankind's perceived need to worship (and to establish law and order -- e.g ten commandments, fear of the god/s, heaven and hell so the people don't step out line.

God is nothing more than a construct created by man to inspire fear and promote order.

That’s how I see it anyway.

 

[Trailblazer]

God is nothing more than a construct created by man to inspire fear and promote order.

That’s how I see it anyway.

I can certainly understand why you see it that way if you believe the Bible is the only "Holy Book" ever revealed by God. The Bible is not a book I rely upon.

 

[Jollybear]

Yes. It is. The concept of divine God/s was made up by leaders or governors in ancient history, and it was a good thing to satisfy humankind's perceived need to worship (and to establish law and order -- e.g ten commandments, fear of the god/s, heaven and hell so the people don't step out line.

God is nothing more than a construct created by man to inspire fear and promote order.

That’s how I see it anyway.

Wait a minute there. I dont believe in God and his laws because i fear them, i believe in God because the evidence is there. When i obey his laws its because i TRUST his laws, not fear them.

Now, that said, i speak only for myself, as for others, i dont deny that SOME people out there believe and obey out of fear, but NOT ALL DO it with that motive.

You cant speak for everyone.

 

[Jollybear]

Okay thanks. There is nothing wrong with that.

I guess that means you can handle anything that comes your way without a "Higher Power" which some people choose to call God.

I tried doing that for most of my life, but I fell flat on my face a few years ago. Mind you, I am not saying I think God is "doing anything" at all... I just like the idea that He is there for me to call upon... Kind of silly huh?

I dont think its silly if you call on God. I look at God as papa. The great, great, great, and keep on going great papa who still lives, is real and personal, albeit invisible.

 

[MonkeyFire]

Have trust and confidence and you would know.

 

[Prometheus85]

Wait a minute there. I dont believe in God and his laws because i fear them, i believe in God because the evidence is there. When i obey his laws its because i TRUST his laws, not fear them.

Now, that said, i speak only for myself, as for others, i dont deny that SOME people out there believe and obey out of fear, but NOT ALL DO it with that motive.

You cant speak for everyone.

I never said I spoke for everyone.
At the end of my quote, you can clearly see where I said “that’s how I see it anyway”

 

[Jollybear]

I never said I spoke for everyone.
At the end of my quote, you can clearly see where I said “that’s how I see it anyway”

Ok, so if your not speaking for everyone, then you agree some people, like myself believe in God and obey his laws out of evidence, love and trust rather then fear then?

 

[Prometheus85]

Ok, so if your not speaking for everyone, then you agree some people, like myself believe in God and obey his laws out of love and trust rather then fear then?

Why would I agree with that?