Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Interesting, thanks for explaining your beliefs. I do want to be respectful - believing each person resonates spiritually uniquely, however, I also feel the need to explain how I see it. First off, I think that each of us can receive direct messages from God - and ideally we do because "the kingdom of God is within you."Thanks for sharing all of that No, I do not remember you sharing it before. I was not aware that the Mormon Church is so controlling. Baha’is do not believe that Joseph Smith was a Prophet for the simple reason that we do not believe he ever received a revelation from God, but we do believe he was a seer.
“As for the status of Joseph Smith, founder of the Mormon Faith, he is not considered by Bahá’ís to be a prophet, minor or otherwise. But of course he was a religious teacher sensitive to the spiritual currents flowing in the early 19th century directly from the appearance of the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh and the Revelation of Their Messages of hope and Divine Guidance. In this respect you might find chapter ten in the late Hand of the Cause George Townshend’s book, ‘Christ and Bahá’u’lláh,’ interesting.”
(Universal House of Justice, Lights of Guidance, p. 511) http://www.bahaiquotes.com/quotepage.php
I agree we should never look up to anyone but God and Baha’u’llah wrote that we are to worship nobody BUT God. Baha’u’llah claimed to be a Manifestation of God, a Representative of God, a Servant and a Messenger of God, but He never claimed to be God. To keep it simple, Baha’is believe only those who God speaks to through the Holy Spirit are Messengers of God, whom we normally refer to as Manifestations of God, since they manifest God on earth. They reflect God’s attributes and reveal the Will of God for the age of history in which they appear, but they do not claim to reveal the Essence of God, or even to know it; nobody can know God’s Essence (intrinsic nature) since God is above all that can either be recounted or perceived.
Most of what Baha’u’llah wrote about God was regarding His Unknowable Essence. However, we know that God loves us and cares about things such as unity, peace and justice in the world because Baha’u’llah revealed that. Essentially, Baha’is do not believe we can ever know anything about God or gain near access to God except through a Messenger, which is similar to what Jesus said in John 14:6 “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
When Jesus said He was the Way, Jesus was referring to that time period in history and He meant that He was the Only Way during his Dispensation, which He was. But clearly, Jesus said that another would succeed Him and convey the “many things” that people could not “bear” back then (John 16:12-13).
When Muhammad came He was “the Way” and then when the Bab and Baha’u’llah came they were “the Way” because God sent them to humanity with a new message which was pertinent to the times in which we lived... That is what Baha’is refer to as Progressive Revelation which is the crux of Baha’i theology, that God has always sent Messengers and will continue to send them throughout all eternity.
Sorry to throw out so much information at once... Please let me know if you have any questions.
You cannot experience God outside of you - only within you.
I do not really know what Jesus meant when He said that "the kingdom of God is within you" or how that is related to receiving direct messages from God. Also, I do not know what you mean by direct messages from God. When I say that I mean God speaking to someone directly and I do not believe God speaks to anyone directly, not even the Prophets/Messengers of God. God speaks to them through the Holy Spirit.Interesting, thanks for explaining your beliefs. I do want to be respectful - believing each person resonates spiritually uniquely, however, I also feel the need to explain how I see it. First off, I think that each of us can receive direct messages from God - and ideally we do because "the kingdom of God is within you."
I agree that the purpose of this life is to make free will chooses and thereby we learn and grow spiritually and improve our character.The reason why I see Joseph Smith as a prophet is because he saw a vision of a better way (in some ways better) and led people to it. But as I mentioned before, I also see Martin Luther King Jr., and Socrates as prophets based on that criteria. And I don't think that they are god-like. I do believe they can make mistakes and lead people in some mistaken ways - but I'd say that generally, they have done something new and began something good. I'm very weary of anyone who decides what they think and believe based on what some "messenger" tells them. I value thinking and our own free-will, as I see that is the main purpose of us in this life - to exercise our rights to choose.
I understand what you mean. I think people relate to God from within, but things outside of us in God’s Creation can help us experience God because they all reflect God and thereby help us connect to God.When Jesus wrote, "I AM the way..." I interpret it similar to when he said, "The kingdom of God is within you" and when Moses interpreted God as I AM THAT I AM. You cannot experience God outside of you - in a tree, or a mosque, or church etc. - only within you.
That is a very good question. It raises the question as to how we can know the God we found within is really God at all. I mean if others find other Gods within that are different that means they cannot all be the same God..... and if there is only One Real God how can we know who is experiencing the Real God and who might be delusional?Would you say that the God that you find within your person is the same God found within all persons?
That is a very good question. It raises the question as to how we can know the God we found within is really God at all. I mean if others find other Gods within that are different that means they cannot all be the same God..... and if there is only One Real God how can we know who is experiencing the Real God and who might be delusional?
Self-view can never be fully dissolved.It is said that two meditators at the beginning will entertain different views of Reality. But as time goes on, and as each of them slowly drops their personal views, eventually will come to see the same Reality. Why would it be any other way?
Though two snowflakes have very different and unique patterns, both are made of universally formless water.
When self-view is dissolved, universal view comes into play. The consciousness by which you see the world is the same consciousness by which I see it. Only mind creates differences in how the world is seen, ie; 'my view', vs. 'your view'. It is this universal consciousness that some call 'God'.
Self-view can never be fully dissolved.
I am not convinced that any two people will ever experience the same consciousness or experience Reality the same way. Logically speaking, that means that these spiritual experiences cannot be used to determine what God or Reality IS.
The self originates with the soul which comes into being at the moment of conception.You are still speaking from the POV of self-view, which you say cannot be dissolved. But can you tell me where self-view originated from? As I understand it, infants do not develop a sense of self until around 14 months.
The basis for all self-views is universal view, just as the basis for all unique snowflakes is universal water.
As socialized and indoctrinated humans, we have acquired accretions over a lifetime, accretions which, taken as a whole, are thought of as who we are. If we can acquire them, we can shed them. It's just very difficult inner work.
The self originates with the soul which comes into being at the moment of conception.
I see no reason why we would want to shed who we are and become amalgamated with everyone else.
God (in the guise of the "firm conviction") essentially is the solution to the epistemic mystery. Until and unless the mystery arises, there is no solution and no God.It seems to me that, mainly for epistemic reasons, god is a mystery which will never be solved, although -- given human nature -- many people will endlessly seek to arrive at firm convictions about god.
Comments?
God (in the guise of the "firm conviction") essentially is the solution to the epistemic mystery. Until and unless the mystery arises, there is no solution and no God.
It has basis in my personal experience, my awareness of being a person separate from other people. It is confirmed my my beliefs, but so what?That idea has no basis in fact or your personal experience. It is just your belief, which you learned and accepted as true from others, a product of YOUR social indoctrination.
We become who we are as we go through life and learn and grow spiritually. Our true self is our real identity, to the extent that we are able to reflect the attributes of God inherent within us... It is not our body image or what we project to others or what we imagine ourselves to be.We are not shedding who we really are, but who we imagine ourselves to be. This imagined self is the product of years of social indoctrination via our parents, peer groups, governments, educators, etc. It is comprised of a set of values, images, titles, and life experiences which the mind groups together and categorizes them as 'me'. Who we really are is the consciousness prior to our indoctrination that forms our social Identity.
I believe in oneness with everyone and everything. That is the basis of my religion. Oneness of HumanityRealization of oneness with everyone and everything is not to form a featureless blob of psycho-protoplasm. It is to see your true nature that lies beyond temporal form and identity. Your true nature is Unborn, Unconditioned, and Uncaused, outside of Time and Space.
It has basis in my personal experience, my awareness of being a person separate from other people. It is confirmed my my beliefs, but so what?
No, I did not dismiss it, but the fact that “infants have no sense of self” does not prove that humans have no self. The fact that humans do not become aware of the self until 15-18 months old does not prove there is no self.You said:
"The self originates with the soul which comes into being at the moment of conception."
You cannot possibly remember that as a personal experience even if it were true. It's just your belief, based upon your indoctrination. I provided some documented information as to how the self forms months after birth. Did you pay attention, or just dismiss it?
And articles written by psychologists etc. do not confirm anything about the self anymore than religious beliefs do. Nobody can prove these things. Science knows we have a body and a mind and my religion teaches that we have a soul that is associated with the body and mind while we are alive in a physical body. That soul is an individual soul and can thus be thought of as the self.Beliefs don't confirm anything. They're just beliefs.
I have no problem with being interconnected one with each other and with the entire Universe, but “with each other” requires that we have a self to be interconnected to others.You are not separate from others. That is just an illusion of the mind, which itself is an illusion. We are all interconnected one with each other and with the entire Universe.
No, I did not dismiss it, but the fact that “infants have no sense of self” does not prove that humans have no self. The fact that humans do not become aware of the self until 15-18 months old does not prove there is no self.
I do not need a religious belief to know there is a self. That concept is found in both philosophy and psychology. A person cannot have self-awareness if they have no self, for example. What is it that you think they are aware of?
And articles written by psychologists etc. do not confirm anything about the self anymore than religious beliefs do. Nobody can prove these things. Science knows we have a body and a mind and my religion teaches that we have a soul that is associated with the body and mind while we are alive in a physical body. That soul is an individual soul and can thus be thought of as the self.
I have no problem with being interconnected one with each other and with the entire Universe, but “with each other” requires that we have a self to be interconnected to others.
All creatures want to believe in something bigger than themselves. They cannot live without blind obedience. And to escape the pressure of that trust, those in whom faith is placed in turn look for someone higher than themselves. And then those people in turn look for someone even stronger. That is how all Kings are born. That is how all Gods are born.
If ALL creatures cant live without blind obedience, then who do you blindly follow and what do you believe in thats bigger then yourself?
If ALL creatures cant live without blind obedience, then who do you blindly follow and what do you believe in thats bigger then yourself?
If ALL creatures cant live without blind obedience, then who do you blindly follow and what do you believe in thats bigger then yourself?
If ALL creatures cant live without blind obedience, then who do you blindly follow and what do you believe in thats bigger then yourself?