Is God good? Is God loving?

[Spirit of Light]

If that makes you cope better with suffering, fair enough. Not everyone sees it that way, though.

Realizing that suffering is not there to harm, but as a wake-up call to say "you are going off track now". So suffering is a teaching to change something in life

 

[Kooky]

Realizing that suffering is not there to harm, but as a wake-up call to say "you are going off track now". So suffering is a teaching to change something in life

Where do you get the idea from that suffering does not harm?
Most suffering comes from harmful conditions.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Where do you get the idea from that suffering does not harm?
Most suffering comes from harmful conditions.

If there is no "I" or "Me" to be harmed, suffering is only an attachment in the mind.

 

[Kooky]

If there is no "I" or "Me" to be harmed, suffering is only an attachment in the mind.

So are people dieing of cancer or being shot dead by cops not suffering, or is all death illusory because there are no individuals, and therefore nobody to care about if they're gone?

If individuals don't exist, then the love and joy created by them or is pointless, too, isn't it?
If there is no "I" to be harmed, there is no "I" to feel joy or love or anything positive.
There is, in fact, nothing.

 

[Spirit of Light]

So are people dieing of cancer or being shot dead by cops not suffering, or is all death illusory because there are no individuals, and therefore nobody to care about if they're gone?

If individuals don't exist, then the love and joy created by them or is pointless, too, isn't it?
If there is no "I" to be harmed, there is no "I" to feel joy or love or anything positive.
There is, in fact, nothing.

It all comes down to how detached an person is to this world, 99% of the people are not that detached.
One do feel suffering from pain or lose when it happens, but how to end the suffering is to understand the cause of suffering, on this area Sufism are very similar to Buddhism

There are of course other ways to understand this too.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, by definition, God cannot loose anything or gain anything. He is independent of all creatures, and self subsisting. He told us through messengers He loves us. There is no reason He has to lie. If He did not love us, He would not have created us. Can a wise God creat something He hates? If He did not love us, or did not care for us, He would not have sent Messengers for us, and would not have provided for us.

Of course if what Baha'u'llah wrote is true what you said is true and it makes logical sense that God would not create something He hates or send Messengers if He did not love us. I just cannot feel any love from God and I am told it is my fault because I don't love God so God's love cannot reach me, but why? Why can't God reach me if God is all-powerful? Something seems wrong about that.

I understand this world is a terrible place, and has many sufferings, and unpleasant things, which makes us wonder if a God exists even, or if it does, He really loves us. I am sure you already know the answers I give, but that's all comes to my mind. We are told when we go to next life, the reason for sufferings of this world becomes known and clear then. So, for now, we just have to have faith and trust in God. I don't see we can do anything about it.

I really don't care if God loves me so it does not matter. What difference would it make in my life if I believed that God loved me? What good would it do? God is not here. I have learned to live without love from anyone all my life. Why would I need God's love? This post was not about me. It was about me wondering what I stated in the OP. It was philosophical and not religious. Religion always has answers and I already know those.

I do believe in Baha'u'llah and I do believe in an afterlife that will be far better than this life. The problem is that I cannot imagine anything better even if it exists so the last thing I want is to live forever.

“O My servants! Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes. You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 329

 

[oldbadger]

If God is good and God is loving what is the evidence?
Look around you in this world. What evidence do you see ..................

I'm looking..........................

 

[Trailblazer]

Then this asks to me: what definition of "God" are we talking about? Because I am in answering these questions setting aside the Scriptures and thinking of some bland creator deity. With that definition in mind God would by definition be responsible for all the good that exists because He would've made everything. And then the definition of love I gave earlier which I ripped off some Greek philosopher somewhat, "love is giving good to others." So by doing that this creator deity would be loving.

What I am hard pressed to understand is how believers see God as responsible for all the good in the world but they completely overlook everything that is not good and God is not responsible for anything that isn't good. I consider that illogical. I guess it is because they were brought up believing that as children that God is all-good and God is all-loving but I wasn't brought up in any religion.

What did God give us? God sent Jesus and the other Prophets for our benefit but God also created a world which is a storehouse of suffering in which humans would surely suffer, some much more than others through no fault of their own.

 

[firedragon]

If there is no "I" or "Me" to be harmed, suffering is only an attachment in the mind.

Just curious. You one day associated all other Muslims other than Sufi's with Taliban. I thin you have no clue of the Taliban but that's not relevant.

Dont you think that all the love for all the other religions and atheists you are displaying with so much hearts, it is incoherent with your disposition with other denominations? Curious question.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Just curious. You one day associated all other Muslims other than Sufi's with Taliban. I thin you have no clue of the Taliban but that's not relevant.

Dont you think that all the love for all the other religions and atheists you are displaying with so much hearts, it is incoherent with your disposition with other denominations? Curious question.

To say every Muslim other than sufis are like Taliban would be a major flaw in a comment, and if those words was actually written, those would be a lie, because it is not a true statement at all. ALL humans no matter religious belief or denominations of any religion deserve the same love and kindness from a sufi, it should not be divided into just sufi teaching can be right.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, I just realized what my problem is, I think too much and I ask too many questions. Why does not matter if God is good or loving? Why do some believers insist it is so? Why can't God just be God? What do believers insist on giving God attributes? I really think they have to believe that for their own personal reasons but I have no reason to need God to be good or loving so I can say I don't know. Baha'u'llah wrote that God is completely independent of the knowledge of all created things.

“How wondrous is the unity of the Living, the Ever-Abiding God—a unity which is exalted above all limitations, that transcendeth the comprehension of all created things! He hath, from everlasting, dwelt in His inaccessible habitation of holiness and glory, and will unto everlasting continue to be enthroned upon the heights of His independent sovereignty and grandeur. How lofty hath been His incorruptible Essence, how completely independent of the knowledge of all created things, and how immensely exalted will it remain above the praise of all the inhabitants of the heavens and the earth!”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 262-263

Goodnight all. I have had enough for one day. It is 2 am and I haven't even eaten dinner yet.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Realizing that suffering is not there to harm, but as a wake-up call to say "you are going off track now". So suffering is a teaching to change something in life

YAllah! All this suffering is just an alarm. What comes later to non-believers is much worse.

 

[Spirit of Light]

YAllah! All this suffering is just an alarm. What comes later to non-believers is much worse.

That would depend on how the non-believers live their life, would it not?
No need to judge atheists to hell.

 

[firedragon]

To say every Muslim other than sufis are like Taliban would be a major flaw in a comment, and if those words was actually written, those would be a lie, because it is not a true statement at all. ALL humans no matter religious belief or denominations of any religion deserve the same love and kindness from a sufi, it should not be divided into just sufi teaching can be right.

Good teaching. But I am still asking you about associating other Muslims other than Sufi's with Taliban, even that, with no knowledge of the Taliban.

Have you ever thought of it?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Good teaching. But I am still asking you about associating other Muslims other than Sufi's with Taliban, even that, with no knowledge of the Taliban.

Have you ever thought of it?

There is no association that other Muslims being Taliban from @Conscious thought, if that have happen it would have been in the past, not in present moment.

 

[firedragon]

There is no association that other Muslims being Taliban from @Conscious thought, if that have happen it would have been in the past, not in present moment.

Right. See. this particular matter cannot be just let loose. If you get offended by it, I see no choice.

If you dont have a clue about the Taliban, why would you typically associate other Muslims other than your group as Taliban? Who taught you that? What if I tell you that the Taliban has a huge background in Sufism? How would you react?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Right. See. this particular matter cannot be just let loose. If you get offended by it, I see no choice.

If you dont have a clue about the Taliban, why would you typically associate other Muslims other than your group as Taliban? Who taught you that? What if I tell you that the Taliban has a huge background in Sufism? How would you react?

Taliban is a terror organization with extreme views, there is no need to compare them to Muslims who are not extreme or member of the Taliban organization( fighting for them). So no no judgment or comparing Muslims who are not a part of that specific group.

May it be that some fraction of Sufis have joined Taliban? Yes that may have happen, that is their choice.

 

[firedragon]

YAllah! All this suffering is just an alarm. What comes later to non-believers is much worse.

The thing is, you believe in Brahman and you have not yet provided empirical evidence the tBrahman exists and he is simply "energy" although you claim to it. Unless of course you retract your belief statement.

aliban is a terror organization with extreme views, there is no need to compare them to Muslims

BUT THATS WHAT YOU DID.

The issue is, you associated with "other Muslims'.

though you have absolutely no knowledge of the Taliban, or their background. You just had an arbitrary thought that "other than SUFISM", others are like Taliban.

Is that Sufi teachings from some old philosopher or is it your personal bigotry? Just trhink about it and make a small case.Where are you learning all of this from?

 

[Spirit of Light]

The thing is, you believe in Brahman and you have not yet provided empirical evidence the tBrahman exists and he is simply "energy" although you claim to it. Unless of course you retract your belief statement.


BUT THATS WHAT YOU DID.

The issue is, you associated with "other Muslims'.

though you have absolutely no knowledge of the Taliban, or their background. You just had an arbitrary thought that "other than SUFISM", others are like Taliban.

Is that Sufi teachings from some old philosopher or is it your personal bigotry? Just trhink about it and make a small case.Where are you learning all of this from?

If you say so.

 

[firedragon]

Taliban is a terror organization with extreme views

What about the LTTE? Do you consider them a terror organisation with extreme views? What is the difference between them and the Taliban? Think about it. Is it that you have never in your life made any study of any of this but just blindly followed your personal love, and your imam?

what about the only ever drop of a nuclear bomb in the entire human history??? Is there a reason you would never ever take that as an example? Do you love them too much and your God and religion has some bias?

Think about it.