Is God good? Is God loving?

[Aupmanyav]

The thing is, you believe in Brahman and you have not yet provided empirical evidence the tBrahman exists and he is simply "energy" although you claim to it. Unless of course you retract your belief statement.

I have no intention of retracting from my statement. The Standard Model of Big Bang says that we started with a ball of 'physical energy'. Therefore, all that exists in the universe is just that. Hindus know it as 'Brahman'.

 

[Nimos]

Evil to me is just a lack of good and has no positive existence in itself, so when considering what fully has existence there is only good.

But what about those cases where good is not a relevant label, would that then be considered evil? Lets assume that some organization is collecting money to the starving people, but I choose not to give them anything.

Assuming that helping those that starve is considered good, so for me to not give them any money, would be considered evil?

And how do balance this, lets say Bill gates give 2 million dollars, but you only give 20 dollars. Obviously the 2 million dollars are much more helpful then 20$ so would your donation then be considered less good than his, just because he has a lot more money, and your donation would be considered to more good than one that just gave 1 dollar?

Again the reason that someone choose not to donate money might be because they themselves are homeless, don't have any money on them at the moment or whatever reason they might have to not donate. But to label them as being or doing something evil doesn't seem very fair.

I also doubt that you actually believe or reason in this way when deciding what is good or evil, there must or ought to be more criteria for determining what is considered evil than simply the lack of good.

 

[Nimos]

Well, I just realized what my problem is, I think too much and I ask too many questions. Why does not matter if God is good or loving? Why do some believers insist it is so? Why can't God just be God? What do believers insist on giving God attributes? I really think they have to believe that for their own personal reasons but I have no reason to need God to be good or loving so I can say I don't know. Baha'u'llah wrote that God is completely independent of the knowledge of all created things.

Because that is what the scriptures say he is. Also if God is equally accountable for all the evil things going on in the world as he is for helping. Then its difficult to argue why anyone would assume that they would be saved by him, as he is more or less a wildcard that can do anything. It would also be valid to assume that God intentionally do not care about all the babies that die during birth or at a very early age.

So why would anyone wish to worship such being to begin with, even if he existed?

 

[SalixIncendium]

If God is good and God is loving what is the evidence? This is all about evidence. I don’t want to see any scriptures because they are not evidence.

Look around you in this world. What evidence do you see that would indicate that a good/loving God exists? I am trying to be objective about this rather than being influenced by my own feelings and life experiences which do not constitute evidence.

"Good" is a human concept. Does God apply human concepts to His existence?

"Love" is a feeling. Does God feel feelings?

 

[Koldo]

That question doesn't make sense to me.

Why not?
One of the things that an evil God would do is inflict suffering upon conscious beings. If nothing exists, there is no one to inflict suffering upon.

 

[Koldo]

Because existence is inherently good and giving good things to another is love. That's how I see it at least.

Why do you consider existence to be inherently good?

 

[Link]

The signs from fruits, nature, animals we use like horses, all point to a Good Creator.

 

[Link]

The same way you can trust your parents to be good to you and are not malicious, you can trust the Creator as good.

 

[Koldo]

Methodologically, leave your current theology aside. That means leave your particular religion aside. Dont be a Muslim, Christian, no Bible, no Quran, no prophets, no manifestations. How do you find God? I dont know if this is gonna help because we carry our bags on our backs and its very difficult to let go, muslim, bahai, christian or atheist.

God is found in natural theology. Muslim and Christian scholars and philosophers since time immemorial have engaged in it. Maybe even before Jesus on record. This is a metaphysical, logical method. You just observe nature, with a logical mind and infer things based on it.

E.g. Wajidul Wujud which is just an arabic word for "Necessary being". Its a philosophical argument for the existence of a necessary being which by definition means "something that cannot be any other manner as it is". In opposition to a contingent being which means it can exist in other ways. Every contingent being logically has to be contingent upon something necessary. That means your laptop was manufactured by someone, the raw materials come from somewhere, where it is taken from maybe soil or trees, both of them come from something because they just cannot come into existence by their own volition, so this is called "regression". Logically this cannot go on forever, which is "Infinite regression". Thus it has to stop at some point in history upon a necessary being. Thats a logical expression of how a necessary being exists.

Now this necessary being does not have any of your theological beliefs. It is only an establishment as a principle.

This is natural theology.

I just tried to put it in a few words since you are interested.

Please do create a topic on this. I would like you to show on what grounds you are making this claim:"Every contingent being logically has to be contingent upon something necessary."

 

[Link]

Please do create a topic on this. I would like you to show on what grounds you are making this claim:"Every contingent being logically has to be contingent upon something necessary."

Infinite chain is proven impossible by many proofs. I'm not talking about time, even without time, put an infinite chain of effects and causes, there needs to be a cause that is not an effect or a self-causing effect.

Western Academics try to downplay this by saying it's applying parts to the whole fallacy, saying, the whole chain is an effect, but that's only one proof philosophically for it and even that proof is by induction and not applying parts to the whole.

There are many philosophical proofs against infinite chain.

 

[Lain]

What I am hard pressed to understand is how believers see God as responsible for all the good in the world but they completely overlook everything that is not good and God is not responsible for anything that isn't good. I consider that illogical. I guess it is because they were brought up believing that as children that God is all-good and God is all-loving but I wasn't brought up in any religion.

I see God as the Ultimate Cause of all things, who gives and retracts goods, which causes "gaps in the good" as I call it, also know as the evil we experience (for instance when He retracts the gift of life from us we drop dead). This is not something I overlook but is fundamental to how I see God personally.

 

[firedragon]

I have no intention of retracting from my statement. The Standard Model of Big Bang says that we started with a ball of 'physical energy'.

That doesnt mean its "brahman".

 

[firedragon]

Please do create a topic on this. I would like you to show on what grounds you are making this claim:"Every contingent being logically has to be contingent upon something necessary."

Err. What grounds does that need? The problem is a new thread or old thread would attract illogical questions from atheists especially. No offence but that's the reality. So its an absolute waste of time.

Apologies.

 

[1213]

If God is good and God is loving what is the evidence? ...

That we still live and God has not killed us. We have freedom to not do as He says.

 

[Lain]

But what about those cases where good is not a relevant label, would that then be considered evil? Lets assume that some organization is collecting money to the starving people, but I choose not to give them anything.

Assuming that helping those that starve is considered good, so for me to not give them any money, would be considered evil?

And how do balance this, lets say Bill gates give 2 million dollars, but you only give 20 dollars. Obviously the 2 million dollars are much more helpful then 20$ so would your donation then be considered less good than his, just because he has a lot more money, and your donation would be considered to more good than one that just gave 1 dollar?

Again the reason that someone choose not to donate money might be because they themselves are homeless, don't have any money on them at the moment or whatever reason they might have to not donate. But to label them as being or doing something evil doesn't seem very fair.

I also doubt that you actually believe or reason in this way when deciding what is good or evil, there must or ought to be more criteria for determining what is considered evil than simply the lack of good.

In my moral theology I actually am extremely binary, acts are either good or evil. How one determines good or evil acts as you notice is more complex than saying "there is a lack of good in this act." Acts can have some bad effects and they also don't have to do the most good as well. Not every good act has to be chosen also.

 

[Lain]

Why not?

I genuinely do not understand what you mean by "evil God." Do you mean that the existence of this being is evil? Do you mean that this being only does evil? Something else? Because both of those things are to me inconceivable to apply to the word "God." It is genuinely like asking me to think of an "empty fullness" or "square circle," I can not mentally conceive of it.

 

[Brian2]

If God is good and God is loving what is the evidence? This is all about evidence. I don’t want to see any scriptures because they are not evidence.

Look around you in this world. What evidence do you see that would indicate that a good/loving God exists? I am trying to be objective about this rather than being influenced by my own feelings and life experiences which do not constitute evidence.

We have life and sunshine and food and rain and cats.
Suffering comes to everyone however and God can give a right perspective on it even if He does not take it away.

 

[Aupmanyav]

That doesnt mean its "brahman".

By the word Brahman, Advaitists Hindus like me mean - "what constitutes all things in the universe", as described in this verse in Mandukya Upanishad - "Sarvam Khalu Idam Brahma" (All things here, Brahman).

Suffering comes to everyone however and God can give a right perspective on it even if He does not take it away.

Ah! You mean it is OK to suffer. You mean he can satisfactorily explain it, though he will never remove suffering. It has never been explained to me satisfactorily by the theists.

 

[firedragon]

By the word Brahman, Advaitists Hindus like me mean - "what constitutes all things in the universe", as described in this verse in Mandukya Upanishad - "Sarvam Khalu Idam Brahma" (All things here, Brahman).

Every tom knows that Aup. That does not change anything.

You still dont have any evidence that "Brahman is energy". You quote scripture like a bible thumper who wants you to believe something because "the bible say so". So much for an anti religionist propagandist.

 

[Wildswanderer]

If God is good and God is loving what is the evidence? This is all about evidence. I don’t want to see any scriptures because they are not evidence.

Look around you in this world. What evidence do you see that would indicate that a good/loving God exists? I am trying to be objective about this rather than being influenced by my own feelings and life experiences which do not constitute evidence.

Nature's beauty and people that are loving are all the evidence I really need. But I also have Jesus as the perfect image of the Father who came to show us what love is.