Is God Helpless under the Realm of Free Will????

[morphesium]

In the past when I got into an argument over Hell, I asked the question: If God created Hell knowing someone would actually go there, wouldn't God be a Monster? The answer I received back was that since we all have free will, God is helpless to stop one from going to Hell if they choose Hell for themselves.

Is God really helpless within the realm of free will? I think not.

I was walking through a store one day. A lady was demonstrating some fancy cookware. I don't remember the name. To make a long story short, before she was done with me, I purchased all the cookware. The funny thing was I didn't need cookware, nor did I want cookware, however I bought all the cookware under my own free will.

I know a man who is the world's greatest salesman. He says that a salesman knows he is good when he can sell someone something they don't need or want and make them happy they bought it. This saleslady did just that to me.

This brings us to the point. Is God not capable of doing the very same thing? I have free will and I have cookware now. Wouldn't Hell be empty if God cares at all and yes, under the realm of free will?

So this brings us to the question: Is God a Monster or not? I think not. The concept of Hell is what does not add up.

Some religions/cultures had God who commits rape, murder and all other kind of unethical acts. Every religion projects their God to be the most "perfect" but for the thinking person, things just wont add up as you said.

Our God(s) that came through religion are all just fakes, are just mythical. Created by the wiseacers to rule their society and the followers are just victims.
Religion is a curse againt universal brotherhood.

 

[muhammad_isa]

In the past when I got into an argument over Hell, I asked the question: If God created Hell knowing someone would actually go there, wouldn't God be a Monster? The answer I received back was that since we all have free will, God is helpless to stop one from going to Hell if they choose Hell for themselves.

Hmmm .. your choice of words is not really correct..
Almighty God can do all things, including taking people out of hell. However, if souls are that corrupted, God might decide to leave you there .. for a while

Some innocent people go to prison in this life .. there will be nothing like that in the next..

 

[Bird123]

Hell really should just mean the grave in the bible. No eternal life or resurrection means rotting in the ground.
http://www.bibleed.com/hell-and-the-grave.html

On that note I will say something that doesn't make sense, is resurrecting evil people from the grave just to throw them into a lake of fire to torture for eternity. Certainly doesn't sound like that of a merciful just and good god. I don't know about the book of Revelations. Revelations is probably the bloodiest book I've ever read. That book probably supposed to be all metaphor anyway making it hard to discern.
http://www.thebricktestament.com/revelation/index.html

Does leaving one in the grave really makes sense either? Can't the problem be Fixed? Isn't it mankind who finds destroying a problem instead of fixing it better? Is one to say God is at no higher a level than mankind?

 

[Bird123]

Your concept of Hell maybe misled. The fire of God's wrath is having our own ways visited upon us. It's in both the Old and New Testaments. The tenants of Hell are comfortable until they don't like what's happening to them, and then they either change their ways or become accustomed to their lot.

I can agree that when our actions return to teach us what our actions really mean that it can seem like Hell. And sometimes people who need to change but refuse, do hurt until it becomes easier to change, however it could never be for eternity.

 

[Bird123]

I think not also.

I have dropped belief in the concept of Hell myself. I wonder why the concept still lingers.

Perhaps it lingers because of the Fear it has generated in people. I have a friend who is Christian only out of this Fear. He says just in case it's true. It is sad that Religions use this tactic when they are supposedly talking for God.

 

[Bird123]

Hmmm .. your choice of words is not really correct..
Almighty God can do all things, including taking people out of hell. However, if souls are that corrupted, God might decide to leave you there .. for a while

Some innocent people go to prison in this life .. there will be nothing like that in the next..

People like to change what Religion teaches. Hell is taught to be eternal. Of course, you are right that God can choose to do anything. With that in mind, why would an Intelligent Being create Hell in the first place. What purpose could it serve? Does torture really teach one to do anything but hate? If God is Love, why would He set up a place to teach hate?

 

[idav]

Does leaving one in the grave really makes sense either? Can't the problem be Fixed? Isn't it mankind who finds destroying a problem instead of fixing it better? Is one to say God is at no higher a level than mankind?

It would probably make more sense to just resurrect the people who will get into heaven, unless hell is just some temporary punishment until the souls learn the errors of their ways but even that seems sort of like a form of black mail. Once a person gets judged to go to hell, repenting afterwards would seem sort of self serving. Is it any better to have god force his will on us or coax us into abiding?

I feel like when dealing with children the best thing is to give them all the knowledge and know how in order for them to make their own decisions. That might actually mean someones going to choose evil. One big thing is that humans know better and choose anyway. Showing the error of their ways through knowledge is the only way, not through physical punishment, physical punishment is very much a human thing. Punishing is just enacting revenge, which I don't doubt some people want but god would be beyond such petty notions.

 

[Bird123]

Some religions/cultures had God who commits rape, murder and all other kind of unethical acts. Every religion projects their God to be the most "perfect" but for the thinking person, things just wont add up as you said.

Our God(s) that came through religion are all just fakes, are just mythical. Created by the wiseacers to rule their society and the followers are just victims.
Religion is a curse againt universal brotherhood.

Truly Religion does reflect mankind and their problems. It shows God and the world what lessons are needed. You are Right that for God and the Thinking person, everything must add up.

 

[Bird123]

It would probably make more sense to just resurrect the people who will get into heaven, unless hell is just some temporary punishment until the souls learn the errors of their ways but even that seems sort of like a form of black mail. Once a person gets judged to go to hell, repenting afterwards would seem sort of self serving. Is it any better to have god force his will on us or coax us into abiding?

I feel like when dealing with children the best thing is to give them all the knowledge and know how in order for them to make their own decisions. That might actually mean someones going to choose evil. One big thing is that humans know better and choose anyway. Showing the error of their ways through knowledge is the only way, not through physical punishment, physical punishment is very much a human thing. Punishing is just enacting revenge, which I don't doubt some people want but god would be beyond such petty notions.

Clearly, it seems many lifetimes will be needed before all those lessons are learned.

 

[muhammad_isa]

People like to change what Religion teaches. Hell is taught to be eternal.

It can be .. some people are incarcerated in this life until death .. similarly, some will never get out in the next.

Of course, you are right that God can choose to do anything. With that in mind, why would an Intelligent Being create Hell in the first place. What purpose could it serve? Does torture really teach one to do anything but hate? If God is Love, why would He set up a place to teach hate?

A place?
.. or maybe a state..
Why do we suffer in this life? If there is 'a god' (and there is!), why would He let that happen? What purpose would it serve?
Naturally, suffering is caused by many different factors, including opression from others .. some suffering is caused by our own deeds, and then there is physical pain etc.

If there is suffering in this life, why shouldn't there be suffering in the next?

 

[Acim]

You can drop whatever you wish, but again the scriptures point to Hell (2 Thessalonians 1: 7-9).

Since the bible is the word of God, we should "hear" it.

Since Paul's words are not God's, we should use discernment.

 

[Acim]

So this brings us to the question: Is God a Monster or not? I think not. The concept of Hell is what does not add up.

Agreed.

 

[Bird123]

It can be .. some people are incarcerated in this life until death .. similarly, some will never get out in the next.


A place?
.. or maybe a state..
Why do we suffer in this life? If there is 'a god' (and there is!), why would He let that happen? What purpose would it serve?
Naturally, suffering is caused by many different factors, including opression from others .. some suffering is caused by our own deeds, and then there is physical pain etc.

If there is suffering in this life, why shouldn't there be suffering in the next?

Pain is no more or no less that something is wrong. Without pain, one could cut their hand off then bleed to death and never know anything was wrong.

Suffering exists for many good reasons. How about these few reasons? 1.If everything we do returns in time to teach us what our actions mean, people can choose some hard lessons for themselves. Is it really bad if a God teaches based on what each chooses for themselves. 2. How about Volunteers? Aren't there great souls who volunteer to go through great adversity in order that others learn and understand? Is it really bad for God to allow some to volunteer to help create a better smarter world?

 

[Subhankar Zac]

Free will is an illusion.
Matter and energy is a part of God, the impersonal is another kind of energy of God, ATMAN is another aspect of God...
So whatever we do, are indirectly done by the universal consciousness as everything is God, including the empty space inside an atom.
The future already has occured according to plan... But this universe is gradually moving towards it.
Whatever will occur in the future, Be good or wicked is planned.

 

[Subhankar Zac]

Free will is an illusion.
Matter and energy is a part of God, the impersonal is another kind of energy of God, ATMAN is another aspect of God...
So whatever we do, are indirectly done by the universal consciousness as everything is God, including the empty space inside an atom.
The future already has occured according to plan... But this universe is gradually moving towards it.
Whatever will occur in the future, Be good or wicked is planned.

 

[Burl]

If there is suffering in this life, why shouldn't there be suffering in the next?

We could amend that to: If there is disagreement in this life, why shouldn't there be disagreement in the next?

Pain is no more or no less that something is wrong.

The ego's response to disagreement perhaps.

 

[Astravalon]

In the past when I got into an argument over Hell, I asked the question: If God created Hell knowing someone would actually go there, wouldn't God be a Monster? The answer I received back was that since we all have free will, God is helpless to stop one from going to Hell if they choose Hell for themselves.

Is God really helpless within the realm of free will? I think not.

I was walking through a store one day. A lady was demonstrating some fancy cookware. I don't remember the name. To make a long story short, before she was done with me, I purchased all the cookware. The funny thing was I didn't need cookware, nor did I want cookware, however I bought all the cookware under my own free will.

I know a man who is the world's greatest salesman. He says that a salesman knows he is good when he can sell someone something they don't need or want and make them happy they bought it. This saleslady did just that to me.

This brings us to the point. Is God not capable of doing the very same thing? I have free will and I have cookware now. Wouldn't Hell be empty if God cares at all and yes, under the realm of free will?

So this brings us to the question: Is God a Monster or not? I think not. The concept of Hell is what does not add up.

That's one of the problems I've found with regards to
the whole hell concept. In order for it to work, God's
Divinity as to be downgraded to that of a demigod or
super-angel (at best). Then, He isn't really God anymore.
The concepts of an endless hell and an all-powerful, all-
knowing God who is also Love itself don't mesh well at all.

I think your cookware scenario demonstrates how God's
ability to attract souls to Him without force would work.
I suspect He's that attractive, alluring, persuasive; it
will be love at first sight. The soul will choose Him,
willingly.




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[Bird123]

Free will is an illusion.
Matter and energy is a part of God, the impersonal is another kind of energy of God, ATMAN is another aspect of God...
So whatever we do, are indirectly done by the universal consciousness as everything is God, including the empty space inside an atom.
The future already has occured according to plan... But this universe is gradually moving towards it.
Whatever will occur in the future, Be good or wicked is planned.

Agreed, Everything has occurred. I do not confine myself with linear thinking. On the other hand, one trapped in time can be blind to see the future and have limited past sight. Still, that has changed nothing. Because there is a capability to know what my free choices are and will be does not change the fact that I do make that choice freely. Free will is within no free will.

Since we are Spiritual beings in our true natures, there is dimensional overlap. Quantum physics is showing the possibility of an infinite number of dimensions. The overlap occurs since the physical, causal time based universe is based on a dimension where time does not exist.

You are right. It has all already been done. The question I have for you is. Where does it all lead?? Hmmm???

Of course, Seems like we both know Hell never existed to begin with.

 

[Bird123]

We could amend that to: If there is disagreement in this life, why shouldn't there be disagreement in the next?


The ego's response to disagreement perhaps.

Perhaps there will be disagreement until one has lived enough lives to understand all the Math completely. Until then, must not one count on disagreement to point the direction by which one can search to discover the real answers?

 

[Burl]

Free will is within no free will

Hmm... Theism within Monism...Corruption within Perfection...and where will this all lead...