Is god perfect?

[waitasec]

No, not really.

We should remember two things at all times. God created the world for us. This should make us feel wonderful, powerful, and godly, of sorts.

We should also remember that even the mosquitoes were created before us, so we should remember that we are still a humble creation.

And how should we feel? We should remember that God loves us. God is a Father, God is a King, and it's our job to be thankful for all that He's given us.

He doesn't need it, but we'll be better people for it.

see, here you assume the earth was created for humans specifically.
or did i misunderstand?

 

[Harmonious]

erm so your say that relaying on people is an emotional weakness or something? this is were we are at a crossroads I think, being independant doesnt mean there is no relience, and relience doesnt mean that your some needy individual themselves. i am a well rounded adult and i love my mother, and i am emotionally attached to her, but im still independant, im still doin my own thing.



erm are you comparing God to a mother? now thats just silly, i dont get my morality from my mother, Goodness does not stem from my mother, my mother isnt omnisceint, omnipotent etc, that is a silly statement Pen.

I was with you up until that last paragraph. Comparing God to your mother isn't unheard of. God Himself did that, if you think of the Ten Commandments. The first five involve Man and God, and the second five involve Man and Man. But the fifth listed is honoring one's parents.

You don't get your morality from your mother? Really? Was she that bad of a teacher? Somehow, I don't think you meant to say that. At least, I hope you didn't.

You would be willing to say that goodness doesn't stem from your mother? You would truly scorn her giving birth to you? Her raising you? Her providing for you? Somehow, I don't think you mean to say that, either.

True - your mother isn't omniscient or omnipotent.

But don't disrespect your mother because she isn't God. All humans have three partners in their creation and birth: their mothers, their fathers, and God. And all three deserve that respect.

I realize that there are those who don't believe in God. But you know... Show me a man who loves his mother, and I'll show you a man who's man enough for me.

 

[Harmonious]

see, here you assume the earth was created for humans specifically.
or did i misunderstand?

It's hard to explain.

God created the world to give creatures His love. Humans have the capacity to not only understand the concept of this, but also the ability to choose to return it.

According to my belief system, humans are the only creatures with free will. Angels and demons serve God, but they have no ability to choose to do otherwise.

Because humans have this ability, an argument could be made that people are more impressive than angels.

But the idea that I believe is more complex than I have the vocabulary to describe.

I'll give it my best shot, though.

 

[Katzpur]

lets keep it simple and say, going to church every week or praying before dinner.

Well, I do both of those things, and I'd say they are both examples of some of the things we do to worship God. To me, though, it's more of an attitude of honor and respect more than a set of behaviors.

 

[Katzpur]

if i may,
in the context of the bible, to worship is to fear

And in the context of the Bible, to fear is to recognize and respect God's power and authority.

 

[micrurus]

Well, I do both of those things, and I'd say they are both examples of some of the things we do to worship God. To me, though, it's more of an attitude of honor and respect more than a set of behaviors.

sorry to go for your nationality, but its an easy way to make my point and maybe you are an exception.

If every one in the world lived like the average american, we would need 6 planets to support our global human population.
now IMO, if you believe in god and god is perfect, god would not want you to worship you. if you truely believe in god that would suffice and he would need no proof. if you want to show respect and humbleness i think that he would reather have people to show respect for the creation and not the creator.

 

[waitasec]

It's hard to explain.

God created the world to give creatures His love. Humans have the capacity to not only understand the concept of this, but also the ability to choose to return it.

According to my belief system, humans are the only creatures with free will. Angels and demons serve God, but they have no ability to choose to do otherwise.

Because humans have this ability, an argument could be made that people are more impressive than angels.

But the idea that I believe is more complex than I have the vocabulary to describe.

I'll give it my best shot, though.

i appreciate that.

animals have the capacity to understand emotions. especially within certain species. there are cases of jealousy and some even show signs of empathy.
however, there are certain animals that don't, from what we can see.
we all share the same building blocks genetically speaking, it's just shuffled around differently for different animals.

if you have the time, i recommend watching this:
[youtube]9RExQFZzHXQ[/youtube]
YouTube - The Poetry of Science: Richard Dawkins and Neil deGrasse Tyson

you've got an astro-physicist and a biologist talking science.
and trust me, if i can get it anyone can...

 

[waitasec]

And in the context of the Bible, to fear is to recognize and respect God's power and authority.

but how can we do that if we can't even fathom what that really means?

in an earlier post i mentioned that dictators have power over people because they are people. we can relate to that power, see what i mean?

 

[waitasec]

goin to the gym...
good night ya'll

 

[micrurus]

i appreciate that.

animals have the capacity to understand emotions. especially within certain species. there are cases of jealousy and some even show signs of empathy.
however, there are certain animals that don't, from what we can see.
we all share the same building blocks genetically speaking, it's just shuffled around differently for different animals.

if you have the time, i recommend watching this:
[youtube]9RExQFZzHXQ[/youtube]
YouTube - The Poetry of Science: Richard Dawkins and Neil deGrasse Tyson

you've got an astro-physicist and a biologist talking science.
and trust me, if i can get it anyone can...

those are 2 of the brightest people alive today, thanks for the vid, il certainly watch it

 

[Katzpur]

sorry to go for your nationality, but its an easy way to make my point and maybe you are an exception.

Hey, I'd just as soon you go for my nationality as my religion. At least it's a change.

If every one in the world lived like the average american, we would need 6 planets to support our global human population.

Yes, it's truly tragic.

now IMO, if you believe in god and god is perfect, god would not want you to worship you. if you truely believe in god that would suffice and he would need no proof. if you want to show respect and humbleness i think that he would reather have people to show respect for the creation and not the creator.

Allow me to quote one of my favorite passages of scripture:

Matthew 25:34-40 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Now it's not my intention to use this thread to brag about my religion, but I will tell you this: We take Matthew 25:34-40 very seriously. We comprise less than .2% (not 2%) of the world's population, and yet we are truly dedicated to feeding the hungry, clothing the naked and caring for the sick. The amount of humanitarian work we do for a religion that is so small, relatively speaking, is phenomenal. And don't think we only care for ourselves. Whenever there is a natural disaster of some kind anywhere in the world, we are among the first to respond. We do so without expecting anything in return, and we don't proselytise as part of our service. As a matter of fact, after the tsumani in southeast Asia a few years back, our care packages included not only food, clothing and hygiene supplies but copies of the Qur'an, since the people we were serving in their time of need were primarily Muslims. So, I believe it's entirely accurate to say that a big part of the way we worship our God is by caring for His children.

 

[1AOA1]

And if so, does he need worship?

Wouldn't worship of God be the prioritization of it and the will to be one with it as opposed to the purely material?

 

[Harmonious]

Wouldn't worship of God be the prioritization of it and the will to be one with it as opposed to the purely material?

Interestingly enough, it is my understanding that if God had to choose between people acknowledging - never mind worshiping - Him and people treating each other with justice and kindness, God prefers proper human interaction.

I'm sure God desires both, but human loving kindness is the priority.

 

[Evandr]

Perfection would never necessitate a change a state.

Our Heavenly Father needs nothing from us other than our growth; His eternal increase is realized through our personal growth as His offspring much the same way I experience personal growth through the accomplishments of my own children and they (along with me) through theirs; it's perpetual. All His commandments are geared for our benefit that we might become like Him. Worship is the ultimate show of respect and before one can be worthy of such respect one must first demonstrate an understanding of it and that can only be done through the exercise of the same.

I will never understand why people try to seperate the worship of God from the need to love one another even as Christ loved us all. It's a complete package, to properly worship God one must keep His commandments and that means loving and respecting all God's creations.

 

[FR33MASON]

God is as perfect as you make the concept out to be.

If you feel the need to worship then god does also.
If you feel that there is no need to worship then god doesn't also.

 

[PolyHedral]

Possibly, but no holy book describes a perfect god, despite claims to the contrary.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Possibly, but no holy book describes a perfect god, despite claims to the contrary.

Well the Koran does, actually. I have to give the Muslims that much. The Koran describes Allah as absolutely all knowing, absolutely all powerful, absolutely all encompassing. The Bible, not so much. The Bible says god repents, fails to forsee things, changes his mind, gets upset, weeps, feels anger, etc.

 

[PolyHedral]

Well the Koran does, actually. I have to give the Muslims that much. The Koran describes Allah as absolutely all knowing, absolutely all powerful, absolutely all encompassing. The Bible, not so much. The Bible says god repents, fails to forsee things, changes his mind, gets upset, weeps, feels anger, etc.

Don't people still sin "against" Allah?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Don't people still sin "against" Allah?

No, they sin against their own souls, according to the Quran. Mind you, I'm not agreeing with this idea that Allah is these things, just pointing out that the Koran says it.

 

[PolyHedral]

No, they sin against their own souls, according to the Quran. Mind you, I'm not agreeing with this idea that Allah is these things, just pointing out that the Koran says it.

But if they're sinning at all, that implies that Allah isn't influencing correctly to get what He wants, i.e. that He is failing in what he wants to do. Obviously, a god that fails at a task he performs can't be perfect.