Is God's existence necessary?

[Unveiled Artist]

I think he means God as an entity rather than just a concept.

Oh. I cant tell the difference since I dont have a concept of what god is as an entity. So, guess my answer is mute.

 

[Gambit]

For sake of discussion we can rely on our (naive) intution for what concern the definition of nature.

So, your "metaphysical naturalism" is based on a naive intuition?

Unless you like to define what you meant with "natural" in your original claim.

A natural explanation is a physical one.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Is God's existence (metaphysically) necessary?

Everything is God. Does that answer it?

 

[McBell]

Everything is God. Does that answer it?

Nope

 

[viole]

So, your "metaphysical naturalism" is based on a naive intuition?

Nope. But when someone addresses something like a natural explanation, or a lack thereof, I always make the assumption that the speaker knows what he is talking about and what he means about natural. Have I been too optimistic by assuming that?

A natural explanation is a physical one.

Fine. So let me reformulate my question. Which of the following alternatives are you addressing?

1) there is no explanation (for why there is something instead of nothing). Neither physical nor not-physical. The fact that something exists is a brute fact about existence.
2) there is an explanation, but it cannot be a physical one.

Which one is right?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Evasive patronising nonsense. You made a wild claim and then couldn't substantiate it, it's clear you're just making stuff up to sound cool or superior. It isn't working on either count.

No...it was casting pearls before swine....and your response is that predicted in these cases....Note that the soul who understood the esoteric principles agrees....only the profane are confounded...

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Isn't this just a cop out, though? You are just using poetic language and vague biblical sayings to avoid supporting your claim it seems.

If you are one who is confounded by the complete exchange between prometheus11 and myself...then it just means you are one who has not yet experienced pure consciousness.... No harm in that, not many have....until then you will not understand....please be humble and not see it as patronizing, and certainly try and refrain from the response of oinks oinks...

 

[Rick O'Shez]

No...it was casting pearls before swine....and your response is that predicted in these cases....Note that the soul who understood the esoteric principles agrees....only the profane are confounded...

No, completely unconvincing, this is just further evasion because you've been caught out in a false claim. I seem to remember this is your usual pattern, claiming superior knowledge but invariably going into evasion mode when asked to clarify and back up your claims.
Zero credibility with me I'm afraid.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

No, completely unconvincing, this is just further evasion because you've been caught out in a false claim. I seem to remember this is your usual pattern, claiming superior knowledge but invariably going into evasion mode when asked to clarify and back up your claims.
Zero credibility with me I'm afraid.

Of course it is unconvincing to you...you have not experienced pure consciousness....it's a no brainer....just try to use some self discipline and not get too publicly sulky about it..

 

[Gambit]

Fine. So let me reformulate my question. Which of the following alternatives are you addressing?

1) there is no explanation (for why there is something instead of nothing). Neither physical nor not-physical. The fact that something exists is a brute fact about existence.
2) there is an explanation, but it cannot be a physical one.

The naturalist believes only the physical exists. That being the case, the naturalist has no physical explanation for why the physical universe (multiverse) exists. (No one here is disputing that something exists. That is a given.)

 

[prometheus11]

When I achieve a state of pure consciousness and therein consider ben d's statements, they prove to be silly, vacuous, and utterly ridiculous.

 

[Gambit]

Everything is God. Does that answer it?

No, not necessarily. Is your pantheistic God perpetually undergoing change?

 

[Unification]

When I achieve a state of pure consciousness and therein consider ben d's statements, they prove to be silly, vacuous, and utterly ridiculous.

If you reached a state of a whole, non-polluted mind that was radically transformed by organic energy that arose within your body, you would become radiantly aware of yourself and realize the jokes on you. It'd be an experience you couldn't miss. You'd be considering all of your own past statements and realize how ignorant you were while laughing at yourself.

 

[prometheus11]

That happened first, then I realized everybody (except me) talking about achieving pure consciousness was horribly deceived. Ben d's comments seemed especially silly and vacuous. I recommend that everyone here talking about pure consciousness attempt to REALLY and TRULLY achieve pure consciousness like I have. DONT SETTLE for fake pure consciousness any longer!! Push through to ACTUAL pure consciousness. Let me know the first reslization to hit you, and I will confirm or deny that you have achieved REAL pure consciousness. Best of luck!!

 

[Unification]

That happened first, then I realized everybody (except me) talking about achieving pure consciousness was horribly deceived. Ben d's comments seemed especially silly and vacuous. I recommend that everyone here talking about pure consciousness attempt to REALLY and TRULLY achieve pure consciousness like I have. DONT SETTLE for fake pure consciousness any longer!! Push through to ACTUAL pure consciousness. Let me know the first reslization to hit you, and I will confirm or deny that you have achieved REAL pure consciousness. Best of luck!!

Pure consciousness is just a phrase, it's a "non-polluted state of mind." A pure,wholesome,balanced mind. It's not corrupted or imbalanced.

The first realization is self realization, knowing oneself, realizing ones own past pollution,impure, and corruption of mind. The self-judgement seat of realizing/becoming awake/aware of ones past dirty laundry of a mind and how way off target of the marks one was.

The realization of, "wow, no matter how intelligent, sweet, good I thought that I was... I was way off and wrong."

If one knows themselves, they see others behaving and being the same way that they used to be. Trying to explain it is like speaking another language almost. I thought that this was all ridiculous, and silly also just a few years ago.

Has nothing to do with having a plethora of knowledge of exoteric nature. It's knowing the truth about ones own metaphysical, internal nature/character. It's that truth that liberates someone from being their own worst enemy.

 

[prometheus11]

No, I verified my experience. As I said, try to push through the deception into ACTUAL pure consciousness instead of the delusion (lie) of pure consciousness.

 

[Unification]

No, I verified my experience. As I said, try to push through the deception into ACTUAL pure consciousness instead of the delusion (lie) of pure consciousness.

Your experience...don't need evidence or your verification, your nature/character will reflect. Those seeking to please others or verify/prove themselves to others do so in vain.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

When I achieve a state of pure consciousness and therein consider ben d's statements, they prove to be silly, vacuous, and utterly ridiculous.

Haha....so is this the Engineer talking or an enlightened human soul....?

 

[prometheus11]

Yes, I know it doesn't need verification, I just happened to acquire it. I am 100% confident.

ben d, try to push past the delusion into ACTUAL pure consciousness. If you feel you have done that, let me know your thoughts and I'll confirm or deny.

 

[leibowde84]

If you are one who is confounded by the complete exchange between prometheus11 and myself...then it just means you are one who has not yet experienced pure consciousness.... No harm in that, not many have....until then you will not understand....please be humble and not see it as patronizing, and certainly try and refrain from the response of oinks oinks...

I think you might be the one in need of humility. I've never claimed to have achieved full consciousness. And this might be the best example of a cop out that I've ever seen. You are saying that because I'm not on the same level of consciousness that you are, I won't understand. I'll take that as you not being able to support your claim.