Is God's existence necessary?

[leibowde84]

You and leibowde84 are like the oink oinks who have been given pearls....you attack me without any understanding of the pearl... What about it...do you think a mind in the state of duality can experience oneness?

Nobody is asking for experience. An explanation would suffice. You have yet to provide one. And what is an "oink oink"?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

This is what I'm referring to. You seem to be the only one who understands what you are trying to convey, yet you don't jump to the obvious conclusion that you are doing a subpar job of explaining it.

I am trying to convey that a mind in the state of duality can never experience enlightenment....I understand that and so I know that I can never experience oneness...based on that fact is the realization, my religious practice has been still mind meditation whereby the ego does not arise...

 

[leibowde84]

Just call us pigs again and mention being so far above others while claiming to have conquered your ego.

Is "oink oink" derogatory?

 

[leibowde84]

I am trying to convey that a mind in the state of duality can never experience enlightenment....I understand that and so I know that I can never experience oneness...based on that fact is the realization, my religious practice has been still mind meditation whereby the ego does not arise...

You seem to think of yourself as better off than us because of this, right?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Just call us pigs again and mention being so far above others while claiming to have conquered your ego.

Fine..but the pattern remains...you attack me and totally disregard the essential pearl...that of the dualist mind not being able to realize oneness...

 

[leibowde84]

Fine..but the pattern remains...you attack me and totally disregard the essential pearl...that of the dualist mind not being able to realize oneness...

But you haven't explained what that means and why it is true. You have to see how vague a claim it is.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You seem to think of yourself as better off than us because of this, right?

Nope...I explained it in my post #228 why I am saying what I am saying.....good and proper advice was given to me wrt duality v oneness....I pass it on to help souls in error as I was at that time....dasal...

 

[leibowde84]

Nope...I explained it in my post #228 why I am saying what I am saying.....good and proper advice was given to me wrt duality v oneness....I pass it on to help souls in error as I was at that time....dasal...

But, you are unable to explain what you mean by that?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Nobody is asking for experience. An explanation would suffice. You have yet to provide one. And what is an "oink oink"?

Good grief...I have given you as much as I can..but there is nothing I can say to make your mind still and free from 'I', but there is still mind meditation practice that may help... 'oink oink' is a reference to the biblical adage about attacking the messenger instead of looking at the message..

 

[Unification]

I think you might be the one in need of humility. I've never claimed to have achieved full consciousness. And this might be the best example of a cop out that I've ever seen. You are saying that because I'm not on the same level of consciousness that you are, I won't understand. I'll take that as you not being able to support your claim.

I wouldn't personally worry about that too much, it's natural to have differing levels of cognition, awareness. Doesn't make one better or below another. It's more of an understanding of your own self very deeply... Ben or no one else can help you understand yourself. Someone can constructively criticize you, and want you to see something you're not aware of about yourself...but it's ultimately on you to reflect on what someone is saying and process that or disregard that.

I know that years ago I was told all sorts of stuff that I ignorantly neglected and ignored because I didn't want to hear it and I thought that I had it all figured out. Turns out now I'm very thankful for that someone being kindly hard on me and planting those seeds within my mind. Years later, the memory of those came back and assisted along the process of humbling myself.

 

[prometheus11]

ben, please explain how the biblical story about casting pearls before swine is about "attacking the messenger instead of looking at the message" thanks.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

But, you are unable to explain what you mean by that?

Ok....I will try once more using a step by step approach...so bear with me and we will see if it makes any sense to you... First, the 'I' of your mind is considered to be you, yes?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

ben, please explain how the biblical story about casting pearls before swine is about "attacking the messenger instead of looking at the message" thanks.

Matthew 7:6 “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

Jesus was teaching the new covenant, aka sermon on the mount and taught this message.... "do not give what is sacred to the dogs, not your pearls to the pigs".....pearls is a metaphor for sacred teaching...what I have been saying about the 'I' in the context of non-duality realization is a sacred religious message.... " "If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces" This means that those who are disbelievers will not like and will totally disregard the sacred message and will attack the the one presenting it to them....

 

[prometheus11]

Nope. Obviously the story is about the difference between humans and dirty animals. Humans appreciate pearls; pigs don't. You are calling your opponents in debate "swine."

 

[Thief]

Evasive patronising nonsense. You made a wild claim and then couldn't substantiate it, it's clear you're just making stuff up to sound cool or superior. It isn't working on either count.

and what can you substantiate?
the non-existence of God?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Nope. Obviously the story is about the difference between humans and dirty animals. Humans appreciate pearls; pigs don't. You are calling your opponents in debate "swine."

No...Matthew 7:6 is using metaphorical language, it is not meant to be taken literally, though I appreciate Jesus' rhetoric is not complimentary to the disbelievers... I wonder if the Engineers would have appreciated the teaching of Jesus...

 

[prometheus11]

You can mistranslated the bible all you want. People who understand language will analyze the text as I do.

 

[Unification]

Nope. Obviously the story is about the difference between humans and dirty animals. Humans appreciate pearls; pigs don't. You are calling your opponents in debate "swine."

Pearls are wisdom and swine is the animal natured mindset/ego.
Pigs represent the lower mind in us that likes to wrestle in the mud. No worries, we all have been there. The human beings are not swine, the current state of their mind is. The swine minded aren't self aware of what they do.

If wisdom is given to someone, and they attack the messenger and don't listen to the message.... it's actually more wise that the messenger just didn't give the message. Some things are better kept to oneself. . saves the trampling. A wise one will realize they bring it upon themselves. There is a time to speak and a time to remain quiet, and there is always a more positive way to speak when speaking.

Most of this stuff isn't even debating/reasoning. It's all attacks on the messengers with opinions rather than substance and focusing on the messages in which people are typing.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You can mistranslated the bible all you want. People who understand language will analyze the text as I do.

What Unification said so eloquently...

 

[Unification]

What Unification said so eloquently...

That was all you bud.