Is God's existence necessary?

[Ben Dhyan]

Yes, I know it doesn't need verification, I just happened to acquire it. I am 100% confident.

ben d, try to push past the delusion into ACTUAL pure consciousness. If you feel you have done that, let me know your thoughts and I'll confirm or deny.

You remind me of a previous poster here at RF named Prophet, who imagined that his ego had realized enlightenment...but I think he may have ultimately come to realize his fundamental but deadly error.. And there are still many enlightened wannabes here who want to believe they have realized enlightenment who have fallen for the same error you have... they don't get it that it is the 'I' that prevents union... When someone says 'I' realized pure consciousness or words to the effect....it can be dismissed as it implies duality of the personal self and God/Tao/Nirvana//etc... Union means there is non-duality...there can be no separation between an experiencer and an experience....subject and object...

 

[leibowde84]

You remind me of a previous poster here at RF named Prophet, who imagined that his ego had realized enlightenment...but I think he may have ultimately come to realize his fundamental but deadly error.. And there are still many enlightened wannabes here who want to believe they have realized enlightenment who have fallen for the same error you have... they don't get it that it is the 'I' that prevents union... When someone says 'I' realized pure consciousness or words to the effect....it can be dismissed as it implies duality of the personal self and God/Tao/Nirvana//etc... Union means there is non-duality...there can be no separation between an experiencer and an experience....subject and object...

Why should we take your word for achieving this, though? You obviously can't support your claim.

 

[prometheus11]

Then why, ben d, are your posts so proud and haughty, full of "the arrogant 'I'?"

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I think you might be the one in need of humility. I've never claimed to have achieved full consciousness. And this might be the best example of a cop out that I've ever seen. You are saying that because I'm not on the same level of consciousness that you are, I won't understand. I'll take that as you not being able to support your claim.

I also have never claimed to have realized enlightenment....but as a practitioner of still mind meditation for many decades...my mind has attained a state free from thought when there was no 'I' present to disturb the underlying unity of Divine being...during that state there is non-duality, so when I re-arises in my mind and duality returns...the awesome event is over.. So it becomes obvious to me that so long as I seek to experience union...union can never be realized...only when the I is not present!!!

 

[leibowde84]

I also have never claimed to have realized enlightenment....but as a practitioner of still mind meditation for many decades...my mind has attained a state free from thought when there was no 'I' present to disturb the underlying unity of Divine being...during that state there is non-duality, so when I re-arises in my mind and duality returns...the awesome event is over.. So it becomes obvious to me that so long as I seek to experience union...union can never be realized...only when the I is not present!!!

Shouldn't it be easier to support your claim, then?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Why should we take your word for achieving this, though? You obviously can't support your claim.

I don't need you to support my understanding...it is my religious practice to just be one with God.. If anyone else feels they are not interested in Divine union...that's their business...

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Then why, ben d, are your posts so proud and haughty, full of "the arrogant 'I'?"

I can only ever be honest about this subject... I personally made the same mistake many decades ago after the first union state of mind event of afterwards imagining it was I who experienced the event... It was only after I told a more advanced practitioner of what 'I' experienced...he promptly put me straight on my error...it has saved a wasted life of believing in a false enlightenment...and thus I feel obliged to help other when the opportunity arises... Like you lot...my ego was initially hurt and resentful about the rebuke..it took many years to actually accept it and even now when I meditate...the hardest thing is to allow the mind to be free of my desire for the awesome even of union... Every time I set out to meditate, it is always the same...that is normal...having a healthy ego is fine for normal life activity...but when it is religious practice time...the ego must be disciplined to settle down and not disturb the mind...

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Shouldn't it be easier to support your claim, then?

If my I is not present when the mind is in a state of oneness...how do propose I can easily convey it?

 

[prometheus11]

It's not working, ben. You're nothing BUT fragile ego, here.

 

[leibowde84]

I don't need you to support my understanding...it is my religious practice to just be one with God.. If anyone else feels they are not interested in Divine union...that's their business...

I'm only concerned because you used your superior enlightenment as reasoning for being unable to support your argument.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

It's not working, ben. You're nothing BUT fragile ego, here.

Ahh..your hurt resentful ego does not like what it hears....a call that it gets in the way of enlightenment rather than being the center of it... ...but like I said, I do understand where you are coming from and feel for you...but progress of your soul's unfoldment towards enlightenment will be severely retarded unless my explanation is understood to be true..

 

[leibowde84]

If my I is not present when the mind is in a state of oneness...how do propose I can easily convey it?

That's on you. You are unable to support your claim. Don't blame us for not being "one" enough. It's arrogance in action.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I'm only concerned because you used your superior enlightenment as reasoning for being unable to support your argument.

You are showing that do not even understand what is being said to you....I have no enlightenment!

 

[leibowde84]

Ahh..your hurt resentful ego does not like what it hears....a call that it gets in the way of enlightenment rather than being the center of it... ...but like I said, I do understand where you are coming from and feel for you...but progress of your soul's unfoldment towards enlightenment will be severely retarded unless my explanation is understood to be true..

In other words, "I'm better than you, so there!" Buddy, if you can't support a claim with a reasoned argument, just keep it to yourself, or admit that YOU are unable to support it.

 

[leibowde84]

You are showing that do not even understand what is being said to you....I have no enlightenment!

Then support your claim or admit that you cant. That's all I'm asking. Explain that it is you, not us.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

That's on you. You are unable to support your claim. Don't blame us for not being "one" enough. It's arrogance in action.

I don't blame you for anything except perhaps your lack of understanding of what I been trying to convey...be that as it may...you can be as resentful of me as you like, and as disbelieving of anything I have conveyed... that is your life and so go for it....

 

[prometheus11]

So, ben, for people that can't stand the pride and arrogance you display with zero evidence of your claims, they shouldn't seek what you claim to have achieved, right?

 

[leibowde84]

I don't blame you for anything except perhaps you lack of understanding of what I been trying to convey

This is what I'm referring to. You seem to be the only one who understands what you are trying to convey, yet you don't jump to the obvious conclusion that you are doing a subpar job of explaining it.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

So, ben, for people that can't stand the pride and arrogance you display with zero evidence of your claims, they shouldn't seek what you claim to have achieved, right?

You and leibowde84 are like the oink oinks who have been given pearls....you attack me without any understanding of the pearl... What about it...do you think a mind in the state of duality can experience oneness?

 

[prometheus11]

Just call us pigs again and mention being so far above others while claiming to have conquered your ego.