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Is halloween _pagan

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
You're lucky then.

Remember my post number six here: The Decline

I deal with these kinds of people frequently online and even in real life.
I do understand that there is a minority of Christians who are Christian Nationalists (including the New Speaker of the House). They are pretty scary. But thankfully they are not representative.

I'd take what you encounter online with a grain of salt. I have noticed that the internet attracts a lot of dysfunctional people who are avoided in real life, but who find captive audiences in forums and chatrooms. I'm not saying that everyone in a forum is unstable. I'm just pointing out that it is way more common than IRL, and so you cannot generalize from what you hear in a forum to real life.
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
I do understand that there is a minority of Christians who are Christian Nationalists (including the New Speaker of the House). They are pretty scary. But thankfully they are not representative.

I'd take what you encounter online with a grain of salt. I have noticed that the internet attracts a lot of dysfunctional people who are avoided in real life, but who find captive audiences in forums and chatrooms. I'm not saying that everyone in a forum is unstable. I'm just pointing out that it is way more common than IRL, and so you cannot generalize from what you hear in a forum to real life.

Just because those people keep those thoughts private in public and only espouse them online, doesn't meant hey aren't overall harmful to society or religion as a whole.

Also, I've seen these same nationalists in real life. I dealt with them in the military, my current town, and in various places I've visited nation wide.

See, I let people just talk, I don't interrupt or intervene, I just listen and be friendly, so I get to hear a lot of inner dialogue others may not publicly espouse out loud, because people trust me.

 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
That's why they just move accused priests instead of getting rid of them.

Tacitly ignoring it is still approval imo.




Maybe they should walk the talk huh?
Just a couple of comments.

First, I am appalled by child molestation, even if the children are teens. I consider it a violent crime, and they do not seem to be rehabilitatable. Thus, if I were king, I would have them executed. Furthermore, I would outlaw ALL marriages under 18, since this is the most common way for perpetrators to have access to their victims without consequence.

That said, I think it is worth noting that pedophilia (sex with pre-adolescent children) is not more common among Catholic priests than the general public. The reason for the outcry is that these are supposed to be moral leaders, so we hold them to a higher standard. Furthermore, the majority of the problem was not pedophilia, but pederasty (adult men having sex with teen boys), which is a homosexual thing. I am not saying it is any better, just different in nature.

Next thought -- pedophilia is a problem wherever children exist, and people seem to opt for covering it up and protecting the institution. This has been the case with the Boy Scouts, Little league, teachers in schools, etc. So its not really a Catholic Church problem, its a human being problem.

Next thought -- the Catholic Church to its credit has made major changes. I don't think it will ever completely eliminate the problem because human beings just do evil things. But I do believe it will cut it way down. For example, all employees of the Catholic church, whether paid or volunteer, are now required to go through training on how to spot abuse and report it. I am also aware that they now screen applicants for seminary to exclude any that give indication of pedophilia or homosexuality. I would say that at this present moment, a catholic church is probably one of the safest places for kids to be.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
When I went to college in South Carolina you would not have said you were pagan without expecting reprisal from the freedom loving Christians. It is changing with time but is still very endemic just not so on the surface. They destroyed a sculpture in Georgia not to recently because it was considered to pagan like.
Being Jewish, I'm very familiar with the Christian tendency to want to lock me into a conversation in order to convert me. I consider that a small thing, a terrible rudeness, but nothing to get my panties in a wad about.

Do you have a link to the story about this Georgian statue? I'm curious and would like to read about it if I may.
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
adult men having sex with teen boys), which is a homosexual thing. I am not saying it is any better, just different in nature.

It seems this is stating that pederasty is exclusively a homosexual problem. (Which on face value seems accurate), but I'm sensing a deeper meaning here that is reminds me of blaming homosexuals FOR pederasty exclusively.
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
Just a couple of comments.

First, I am appalled by child molestation, even if the children are teens. I consider it a violent crime, and they do not seem to be rehabilitatable. Thus, if I were king, I would have them executed. Furthermore, I would outlaw ALL marriages under 18, since this is the most common way for perpetrators to have access to their victims without consequence.

That said, I think it is worth noting that pedophilia (sex with pre-adolescent children) is not more common among Catholic priests than the general public. The reason for the outcry is that these are supposed to be moral leaders, so we hold them to a higher standard. Furthermore, the majority of the problem was not pedophilia, but pederasty (adult men having sex with teen boys), which is a homosexual thing. I am not saying it is any better, just different in nature.

Next thought -- pedophilia is a problem wherever children exist, and people seem to opt for covering it up and protecting the institution. This has been the case with the Boy Scouts, Little league, teachers in schools, etc. So its not really a Catholic Church problem, its a human being problem.

Next thought -- the Catholic Church to its credit has made major changes. I don't think it will ever completely eliminate the problem because human beings just do evil things. But I do believe it will cut it way down. For example, all employees of the Catholic church, whether paid or volunteer, are now required to go through training on how to spot abuse and report it. I am also aware that they now screen applicants for seminary to exclude any that give indication of pedophilia or homosexuality. I would say that at this present moment, a catholic church is probably one of the safest places for kids to be.

Are they really. This was just this April. Investigation reveals widespread sexual abuse and cover-ups by Archdiocese of Baltimore
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
Just a couple of comments.

First, I am appalled by child molestation, even if the children are teens. I consider it a violent crime, and they do not seem to be rehabilitatable. Thus, if I were king, I would have them executed. Furthermore, I would outlaw ALL marriages under 18, since this is the most common way for perpetrators to have access to their victims without consequence.

That said, I think it is worth noting that pedophilia (sex with pre-adolescent children) is not more common among Catholic priests than the general public. The reason for the outcry is that these are supposed to be moral leaders, so we hold them to a higher standard. Furthermore, the majority of the problem was not pedophilia, but pederasty (adult men having sex with teen boys), which is a homosexual thing. I am not saying it is any better, just different in nature.

Next thought -- pedophilia is a problem wherever children exist, and people seem to opt for covering it up and protecting the institution. This has been the case with the Boy Scouts, Little league, teachers in schools, etc. So its not really a Catholic Church problem, its a human being problem.

Next thought -- the Catholic Church to its credit has made major changes. I don't think it will ever completely eliminate the problem because human beings just do evil things. But I do believe it will cut it way down. For example, all employees of the Catholic church, whether paid or volunteer, are now required to go through training on how to spot abuse and report it. I am also aware that they now screen applicants for seminary to exclude any that give indication of pedophilia or homosexuality. I would say that at this present moment, a catholic church is probably one of the safest places for kids to be.

4.4% of Catholic clergy has sexually assaulted a young boy.

Only 3.3% of men have experienced sexual assault or attempted rape.

Seems like it's higher then the average.



"For the last reported year, 2013, the annual prevalence rate for all sexual assaults including rape was 0.1% (annual prevalence rate represents the number of victims each year, rather than the number of assaults since some are victimized more than once during the reporting period). The survey included males and females aged 12+.[4] Since rapes are a subset of all sexual assaults, the prevalence of rape is lower than the combined statistic.[5] Of those assaults, the Bureau of Justice Statistics stated that 34.8% were reported to the police, up from 29.3% in 2004.[6]"

 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
It seems this is stating that pederasty is exclusively a homosexual problem. (Which on face value seems accurate), but I'm sensing a deeper meaning here that is reminds me of blaming homosexuals FOR pederasty exclusively.
Well certainly there are adult men who want to screw teenage girls as well. But while this happened in the Catholic church, it was not the main problem in the sex scandal. 66.7% of the victims were male and 45% were between the ages of 15 and 17

If I am not mistaken, the term pederasty does apply exclusively to sex with teen boys. I don't know what you would call straight men who have sex with teen girls. Which sex is victimized depends on the sexual orientation of the perpetrator.
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
I would say Halloween is pagan. For one thing, it is clearly not celebrated in a Christian manner. Even the main traditions associated with it, like Trick or Treating and Jack O' Lanterns, appear to be secularly-based with Christian stories tacked on for justification. The association with death is by no means exclusive to the Christian All Saints day, and many of the characters of Halloween (Satan, Goblins, Fairies, demons) are pagan-based with Christian stigma added to them.

That the original Roman All Saints day took place on Lemuria (the Roman pagan festival of the dead) then switched to the late October/early November date to take place during pre-Christian European festivals like Álfablót and Samhain does suggest that the timing was purposeful either to appeal to the pagans for conversion or for convenience. Whatever the reason, it's fair to say that the date itself is important to both traditions at this point and some sycreticism has occurred.

Simultaneously, the modern holiday is primarily secular, but due to the symbols involved having more of a root in pre-Christian culture due to the appropriation by Christians to stigmatize them, it appears to lean pagan.

Neopagans reappropriating the holiday seems well justified.
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
This article does not mention a time period. My guess would be that the majority of offenses are old ones.

Of course you'd like to guess that.

"Your investigation found that over 600 young people from preschoolers to young adults suffered sexual abuse and physical torture in some cases by clergy members from the 1940s through 2002. That's the year at which this investigation ended. Clergy in some cases preyed on children who were recovering in hospitals."
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
4.4% of Catholic clergy has sexually assaulted a young boy.

Only 3.3% of men have experienced sexual assault or attempted rape.

Seems like it's higher then the average.



"For the last reported year, 2013, the annual prevalence rate for all sexual assaults including rape was 0.1% (annual prevalence rate represents the number of victims each year, rather than the number of assaults since some are victimized more than once during the reporting period). The survey included males and females aged 12+.[4] Since rapes are a subset of all sexual assaults, the prevalence of rape is lower than the combined statistic.[5] Of those assaults, the Bureau of Justice Statistics stated that 34.8% were reported to the police, up from 29.3% in 2004.[6]"

The problem with your statistic is that it throws the pederasty offenses in with the pedophilia offenses. My statement was that pedophilia was not more common among priests. The reverse is true of pederasty -- the priesthood has a much higher incidence of pederasty than the general public.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Of course you'd like to guess that.

"Your investigation found that over 600 young people from preschoolers to young adults suffered sexual abuse and physical torture in some cases by clergy members from the 1940s through 2002. That's the year at which this investigation ended. Clergy in some cases preyed on children who were recovering in hospitals."
If you are saying that these things are horrendous atrocities, I agree with you.
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
Well certainly there are adult men who want to screw teenage girls as well. But while this happened in the Catholic church, it was not the main problem in the sex scandal. 66.7% of the victims were male and 45% were between the ages of 15 and 17

If I am not mistaken, the term pederasty does apply exclusively to sex with teen boys. I don't know what you would call straight men who have sex with teen girls. Which sex is victimized depends on the sexual orientation of the perpetrator.

No, you're right, there are adult men who will.... but you mentioned pederasty and homosexuality for some reason. Which I'm not even really touching on that, only that sex with "underage kids" has been a huge church problem. Not just ancient Greeks, Romans, indians or what have you.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
No, you're right, there are adult men who will.... but you mentioned pederasty and homosexuality for some reason. Which I'm not even really touching on that, only that sex with "underage kids" has been a huge church problem. Not just ancient Greeks, Romans, indians or what have you.
I was simply pointing out that the driving force behind pederasty is different from pedophilia.
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
I was simply pointing out that the driving force behind pederasty is different from pedophilia.

No the fuxk it's not. It's all a power dynamic.

What's the driving factor for pederasty, gay men? Maybe rethink that line of homosexual blame if that's where you're going.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I was rebutting your claim that there was no time frame.

And your current penchant for blaming pederasty on Pagans.
What????? I never said any such thing. Pederasty is a problem with men. There are some cultures which embrace it, such as the Greeks, and other societies that make it a crime, such as ours.
 
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