Is Harris Really Worth Voting For?

[anna.]

Same

Do you find it difficult to navigate in real life, or are you pretty chill?

That's why I talk politics online, it's because I don't have anyone irl. I'm the one who left them, to be fair.

I was once one of them, which is why I know the mindset so very well.

 

[icehorse]

What's "excessive profit"?

it's like that judge once said about pornography:

"I'm not sure I can define, but I know it when I see it"

 

[Truthseeker]

Actually, I'd say that the oligarchs / kleptocrats (insert your favorite term), ARE largely responsible for all of society's ills.

Capitalism can work well, but only if it's well regulated, and such regulations have been steadily eroded for the last 40 years or so.

As a challenge, name any ill in society today, and I'll be happy to link it back to oligarchs in a step or two. The oligarchy is poisoning everything.

I am also in favor of regulations on businesses. Unfortunately, the corporations own a lot of the lawmakers. It would be better if the step was taken to have public funding of campaigns, instead of donations. But I know that won't happen because the corporations own some of the lawmakers through their donations. So it's an endless circle, apparently.

 

[Revoltingest]

I was once one of them, which is why I know the mindset so very well.

How did you overcome it?

 

[Revoltingest]

it's like that judge once said about pornography:

"I'm not sure I can define, but I know it when I see it"

A subjective judgement in the hands of politicians,
who might have any number of agendas is a
dangerous thing. It's bad enuf that they pay so
much attention to porn....really, a whole lotta
attention....detailed research...extensive viewing.
But let's keep their slavering maws away from
profit.

 

[icehorse]

If one looks at the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), one
sees that the cumulative number of regulations has greatly
increased over time. The last 4 decades shows the addition
of 80,000 pages. And that's just at the federal level. As a
business owner, I've seen increasing state & local regulation
Problem is that government creates a lot of dysfunctional
regulation.

I'm specifically talking about changing the regulations that used to keep oligarchs in better check. Like Glass-Steagall (which was good), and Citizen's United (which is horrific).

 

[icehorse]

A subjective judgement in the hands of politicians,
who might have any number of agendas is a
dangerous thing. It's bad enuf that they pay so
much attention to porn....really, a whole lotta
attention....detailed research...extensive viewing.
But let's keep their slavering maws away from
profit.

The problem is that the oligarchs can - and do - hire the best lawyers to find endless ways to game the system and rip everyone off. I agree that politicians must be closely monitored, but so must the oligarchs.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm specifically talking about changing the regulations that used to keep oligarchs in better check. Like Glass-Steagall (which was good), and Citizen's United (which is horrific).

Were they really in check?
I don't see it.
Overall, things are much tighter, eg, S&L regulation,
bank regulation, landlord regulation, consumer
protection, environmental, labor.

 

[Revoltingest]

The problem is that the oligarchs can - and do - hire the best lawyers to find endless ways to game the system and rip everyone off. I agree that politicians must be closely monitored, but so must the oligarchs.

Who are these oligarchs?
And how is it that this word applies?

Definition of OLIGARCH

a member or supporter of an oligarchy; one of a class of individuals who through private acquisition of state assets amassed great wealth that is stored especially in foreign accounts and properties and who typically maintain close links to the highest government circles… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

one of a class of individuals who through private acquisition of state assets amassed great wealth that is stored especially in foreign accounts and properties and who typically maintain close links to the highest government circles

 

[Pogo]

Ecological overshoot or just "overshoot", is the idea that humans are using the planet's resources in unsustainable ways. We're destroying our topsoil, depleting our fresh water aquifers, depleting our fisheries, de-foresting the planet, polluting everything with the runoff from our mines, and so on.

One side effect of this unsustainable use of resources is global warming, which is indeed a serious problem. But it pales when compared to overshoot.

So a list of local relatively problems that are being dealt with to greater or lesser extents, though I question your evaluation of their total danger relative to the global problem of greenhouse warming which also needs multiple local solutions and the recognition that we need to act intelligently.

 

[icehorse]

Who are these oligarchs?
And how is it that this word applies?

Definition of OLIGARCH

a member or supporter of an oligarchy; one of a class of individuals who through private acquisition of state assets amassed great wealth that is stored especially in foreign accounts and properties and who typically maintain close links to the highest government circles… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

one of a class of individuals who through private acquisition of state assets amassed great wealth that is stored especially in foreign accounts and properties and who typically maintain close links to the highest government circles

As I said earlier: pick your term. You don't like "oligarch"? How about kleptocrat? "1%ers"? Pick another, it's not about haggling over the term.

As I'm sure you know, these very few "oligarchs" (until a different term is offered), control most of the media, most of the banks, most of the wealth and income, most of the land, and so on, in the world.

I don't know that there is some sort of arbitrary cutoff point to say "this millionaire is not an oligarch but this billionaire is".

 

[Truthseeker]

I'm specifically talking about changing the regulations that used to keep oligarchs in better check. Like Glass-Steagall (which was good), and Citizen's United (which is horrific).

I was trying to read about Glass-Steagall, but I have low understanding of economic matters. However I do understand Citizens United, and the Supreme Court in that instance was screwing us over like they have a habit of doing recently. It means that wealthy donors control us more.

 

[icehorse]

I was trying to read about Glass-Steagall, but I have low understanding of economic matters. However I do understand Citizens United, and the Supreme Court in that instance was screwing us over like they have a habit of doing recently. It means that wealthy donors control us more.

My perhaps oversimplified understanding of Glass-Steagull is that it kept banks from gambling with our money. Such gambling led to the economic crisis of 2007-2008 which was created by the banks and which we citizens had to pay for.

I'm sure there are folks who know more details, but I think this is the gist.

 

[anna.]

How did you overcome it?

Sorry for the long story, I think you're a TL/DR kinda guy but here goes anyway... The textbook way: by being exposed to views, information, facts, and just plain insightful analysis of culture, history and politics from people I'd never rubbed elbows with until I came across them online.

Sheltered religious childhood, sheltered conservative ecosystem of family, friends, and school. My first online forum in 2002 was a conservative one where non-conservatives were banned on sight. Psychological reinforcement bouncing off all surfaces of the silo. It carried me through the Kerry swiftboating, Florida recount, the Iraq war, the Obama birth certificate...

In 2009 I left that forum and found another one that was still extremely right wing and religious and with a political section similar to this forum in that (unlike this forum which is well moderated) it grudgingly allowed (but then frequently banned) non-conservative ideologies, and that was literally the first time (I didn't go to college until many years after high school) I'd been exposed to a more liberal, open, questioning, scientific and less dogmatic, less rigid way of looking at the world around me in every aspect of human experience. I made some friends who were very patient with me, and we sparred often in the same way we do here, but when I began to realize that they made sense, their information was supported, their experience was valid, and that I cared about them regardless of whether we had much of anything in common at all or not, I turned around and started looking back at myself, at what I believed - from their vantage point. I'm not at that forum anymore either, but my life was changed in those years. Ironically, I found my way out of conservatism on a conservative site.

I left the GOP in 2012, and am an independent, or NPP as they say in California, but since 2012, I've voted a straight Democratic ticket.

Now I look back, and wonder how did I let myself be so brainwashed? How did I not question? And all I can say is I was raised to obey authority, to be docile - and years later, in my Psychology of Prejudice and Stereotypes class in university, I saw the telltale traits of right-wing authoritarian personalities and I recognized them all too well. I could write a good bit more but I'll leave it at that.

 

[fantome profane]

Democrats & Republicans.
I thought I'd already named them.

Trump is one.
And in the snippet I heard from the Dem convention,
I didn't record any names. Are you disputing that
both parties are obsessing over her race(s)?

Yes, I am disputing that. Are you defending that? What are you defending that with?

I did notice you did come up with one name. Well done.

 

[Revoltingest]

As I said earlier: pick your term. You don't like "oligarch"? How about kleptocrat? "1%ers"? Pick another, it's not about haggling over the term.

Pick my term, eh.
Let's not sling demonizing terms willy nilly.
How does that term apply?

As I'm sure you know, these very few "oligarchs" (until a different term is offered), control most of the media, most of the banks, most of the wealth and income, most of the land, and so on, in the world.

Who are these "oligarchs", & which media
companies are they controlling to what end?

I don't know that there is some sort of arbitrary cutoff point to say "this millionaire is not an oligarch but this billionaire is".

Are you labeling these un-named "oligarchs"
based upon level of wealth?

 

[Revoltingest]

Sorry for the long story, I think you're a TL/DR kinda guy...

I am when posters are about to bore or annoy
me with some lame screed. But you & I are
discussing something interesting.

...but here goes anyway... The textbook way: by being exposed to views, information, facts, and just plain insightful analysis of culture, history and politics from people I'd never rubbed elbows with until I came across them online.

Sheltered religious childhood, sheltered conservative ecosystem of family, friends, and school. My first online forum in 2002 was a conservative one where non-conservatives were banned on sight. Psychological reinforcement bouncing off all surfaces of the silo. It carried me through the Kerry swiftboating, Florida recount, the Iraq war, the Obama birth certificate...

In 2009 I left that forum and found another one that was still extremely right wing and religious and with a political section similar to this forum in that (unlike this forum which is well moderated) it grudgingly allowed (but then frequently banned) non-conservative ideologies, and that was literally the first time (I didn't go to college until many years after high school) I'd been exposed to a more liberal, open, questioning, scientific and less dogmatic, less rigid way of looking at the world around me in every aspect of human experience. I made some friends who were very patient with me, and we sparred often in the same way we do here, but when I began to realize that they made sense, their information was supported, their experience was valid, and that I cared about them regardless of whether we had much of anything in common at all or not, I turned around and started looking back at myself, at what I believed - from their vantage point. I'm not at that forum anymore either, but my life was changed in those years. Ironically, I found my way out of conservatism on a conservative site.

I left the GOP in 2012, and am an independent, or NPP as they say in California, but since 2012, I've voted a straight Democratic ticket.

Now I look back, and wonder how did I let myself be so brainwashed? How did I not question? And all I can say is I was raised to obey authority, to be docile - and years later, in my Psychology of Prejudice and Stereotypes class in university, I saw the telltale traits of right-wing authoritarian personalities and I recognized them all too well. I could write a good bit more but I'll leave it at that.

Fortunately, your journey
led you to where you are.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, I am disputing that.

Did you not hear the speakers
at their convention?

Are you defending that?

I'm not defending either praising or
dissing her because of race & sex.

Come on....read more carefully.

What are you defending that with?

Don't play the loaded question game.

 

[sun rise]

My perspective is that we should be very wary of subsidies and monopolies, tax excessive profit, and let the free market establish prices.

What about where there is no effective free market such as big pharma?

 

[icehorse]

Pick my term, eh.
Let's not sling demonizing terms willy nilly.
How does that term apply?


Who are these "oligarchs", & which media
companies are they controlling to what end?

Are you labeling these un-named "oligarchs"
based upon level of wealth?

yawn