Is Harris Really Worth Voting For?

[icehorse]

What about where there is no effective free market such as big pharma?

Right, I guess that would fall into the monopoly-adjacent category?

 

[sun rise]

Sorry for the long story, I think you're a TL/DR kinda guy but here goes anyway... The textbook way: by being exposed to views, information, facts, and just plain insightful analysis of culture, history and politics from people I'd never rubbed elbows with until I came across them online.

Sheltered religious childhood, sheltered conservative ecosystem of family, friends, and school. My first online forum in 2002 was a conservative one where non-conservatives were banned on sight. Psychological reinforcement bouncing off all surfaces of the silo. It carried me through the Kerry swiftboating, Florida recount, the Iraq war, the Obama birth certificate...

In 2009 I left that forum and found another one that was still extremely right wing and religious and with a political section similar to this forum in that (unlike this forum which is well moderated) it grudgingly allowed (but then frequently banned) non-conservative ideologies, and that was literally the first time (I didn't go to college until many years after high school) I'd been exposed to a more liberal, open, questioning, scientific and less dogmatic, less rigid way of looking at the world around me in every aspect of human experience. I made some friends who were very patient with me, and we sparred often in the same way we do here, but when I began to realize that they made sense, their information was supported, their experience was valid, and that I cared about them regardless of whether we had much of anything in common at all or not, I turned around and started looking back at myself, at what I believed - from their vantage point. I'm not at that forum anymore either, but my life was changed in those years. Ironically, I found my way out of conservatism on a conservative site.

I left the GOP in 2012, and am an independent, or NPP as they say in California, but since 2012, I've voted a straight Democratic ticket.

Now I look back, and wonder how did I let myself be so brainwashed? How did I not question? And all I can say is I was raised to obey authority, to be docile - and years later, in my Psychology of Prejudice and Stereotypes class in university, I saw the telltale traits of right-wing authoritarian personalities and I recognized them all too well. I could write a good bit more but I'll leave it at that.

Thanks, @anna for that review. It is to your credit that you were able to start thinking for yourself. Too many never are able to break free of their conditioning.

Among other things people complain about bureaucracy (I do as well). But the problem is bigness. I ran into Federal government class bureaucracy working for a big bank. We used to install updates with tech people working together. But sometimes things did not work. Managment was all for 6 sigma (problems wiill happen) while at the same time not tolerating any problems. The end result was a massive form that we had to full out which was reviewed by people in India who made sure we filled the form out correctly. Then everything had to be reviewed by senior management who had no idea what we were doing, how we were doing it and how we tried to not make mistakes and recover quickly when things went South. Having work for Social Security for a few months, the form I had to fill out there was simpler and related to actual benefits that people got whereas the bank form was more complicated and of zero use to anyone.

 

[Revoltingest]

yawn

Yeah, I thought you had nothing.

 

[icehorse]

Yeah, I thought you had nothing.

Gosh darn it, you just HAVE to make things personal don't you?

Please, just go away.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I don't know.
All I've yet heard is campaign posturing.
But it's clear to me that she's smarter than Trump.

She's only good for word salad. We'll be seeing a lot of that in the future.

 

[oldbadger]

Her new image is "Freedom".
Yet she advocates a more powerful government,
able to dictate our prices, & confiscate our assets.

Your assets?
Why would Kamala Harris want a dirty old smelly traction engine?
(sorry....no TEs on offer)

 

[oldbadger]

Ha. Me neither.

Are you for Trumpy?
I would think that a self loving stupid hypocrite is not quite your idea of an ideal candidate?
Oh well.........

 

[Audie]

Are you for Trumpy?
I would think that a self loving stupid hypocrite is not quite your idea of an ideal candidate?
Oh well.........

Whether or not it's traditional for nonresident
aliens to vote in US elections, I won't.

 

[Wirey]

On the surface....at face value....you're right about that.
But the phrase is a "code word" for justifying Israeli
policy of scorched earth destruction & mass murder
of Palestinians. Why? Because whenever the genocide
is decried, that's the perfunctory response.
Add to this her denial of allowing anyone to speak on
behalf of the Palestinians. (They can be pro-Israel,
but not pro-Palestinian or pro-Muslim.)

Most of what I read and heard isn't that the Israelis are attempting a genocide. Rather, it seems the Israeli government (which has a 30-35% approval rating in Israel) want to make the northern half of Gaza unlivable so once the shooting stops, Israeli settlers can begin moving in again. While evil and sadistic as a motive, it doesn't rise to the level of 'genocide', and using that word to describe the ancestors of Holocaust survivors is fraught with peril. While I understand your point completely, and agree with you for the most part, and I understand that nothing happens in a vacuum, Israel was attacked by terrorists, and all of this is a follow-on from that action. If the Hamas leadership wants to stop this, all they have to do is release the hostages and Israel is out of excuses. But we both know that won't happen. These are two groups with too much interest vested in hating each other (the Israeli right wing government and Hamas, not the two groups of citizens) to ever behave in a way that benefits their population. The easiest solution would be for the Israelis to not vote for ultra-nationalists.

......which brings us back to my four or five votes for Kamala Harris. Despite the fact that she does not align 100% with my political views (I have a strong anti-pantsuit leaning), compared to the train wreck on the other side, she looks like her cowboy hat is pretty white from here.

 

[oldbadger]

Whether or not it's traditional for nonresident
aliens to vote in US elections, I won't.

Got it.
So that's why you will not vote for anybody..... OK.

 

[anna.]

Thanks, @anna for that review. It is to your credit that you were able to start thinking for yourself. Too many never are able to break free of their conditioning.

Among other things people complain about bureaucracy (I do as well). But the problem is bigness. I ran into Federal government class bureaucracy working for a big bank. We used to install updates with tech people working together. But sometimes things did not work. Managment was all for 6 sigma (problems wiill happen) while at the same time not tolerating any problems. The end result was a massive form that we had to full out which was reviewed by people in India who made sure we filled the form out correctly. Then everything had to be reviewed by senior management who had no idea what we were doing, how we were doing it and how we tried to not make mistakes and recover quickly when things went South. Having work for Social Security for a few months, the form I had to fill out there was simpler and related to actual benefits that people got whereas the bank form was more complicated and of zero use to anyone.

Thank you, I like the way you put that, that I was able to start. Because the work isn't finished, and hopefully won't until the day I die.

And yet despite the myriad ways bureaucracy can mess things up, its bigness also allows it to do things individuals and even states cannot, because the bigness is what gets the job done. Take disaster relief, for example. Or Coast Guard search and rescues. Food safety regulations. Pandemic relief. Citizens depend on the bigness to move mountains and make things happen for the good of the citizens even as they know all too well about the red tape involved in adding a room onto the house or signing loan papers. I don't know if anyone knows how to fix that.

 

[Truthseeker]

My perhaps oversimplified understanding of Glass-Steagull is that it kept banks from gambling with our money. Such gambling led to the economic crisis of 2007-2008 which was created by the banks and which we citizens had to pay for.

I'm sure there are folks who know more details, but I think this is the gist.

Okay, the Wikipedia article did mention Glass-Steagall in the context of that recession. There had been some repeal of that, and some economists blamed the recession on that. There didn't seem to be unanimity on that score. I know that speculation of some sort on housing was responsible for that recession. I believe that under Obama, guardrails were put back into place again. That's my memory, anyway, which is often faulty. I see that one group of scholars that were described as somewhat left leaning put Obama as the 7th best President, and Donald Trump in last place. Biden at that time (February) was placed as 14th. This is out of 46 Presidents. But whatever scholars rate the Presidents, Trump is close at the bottom, and Biden does pretty good in that regard. And yet Biden before his disastrous debate was trailing somewhat to become President, noit in the overall national polls, but in "swing states". In recent times, the electoral college has been favorable to Republican presidential candidates. So it would be impossible at this time to have an amendment to repeal the electoral college because Republicans would vote against, and you need two thirds of the Senate or House or both plus three quarters of the states to ratify it. The Equal Rights Amendment came just short of getting three quarters of the states to pass that amendment. I would like to have that amendment in effect today. As an old geezer, I remember that attempt.

I'm digressing from the topic a little.

 

[Aupmanyav]

It's beginning to appear that she's just a clone of Biden.

You don't have much choice. It is either her or Trump (unless Trump too passes the baton to someone else, perhaps Vance).
So make the choice when you vote.

 

[Regiomontanus]

Yes, barely.

 

[Kathryn]

You don't have much choice. It is either her or Trump (unless Trump too passes the baton to someone else, perhaps Vance).
So make the choice when you vote.

If a person doesn't live in a swing state, the odds of their vote making any sort of difference is sort of null and void. The electoral college votes will go to whoever carries the state, other than in a very small handful of states that may split votes.

 

[Father Heathen]

You're describing my best friends and most all my family, unfortunately.

While I was growing up and then getting old I never really interacted with or kept in touch with my family (other than my parents and sibling) and I had always felt a pang of guilt over it. Until I discovered they were all MAGA (and huge drama fiends), that is. Then I felt absolved, lol. My parents always voted dem because they belonged to the UAW. However my dad in his final years turned MAGA, but that coincided with his dementia.

 

[Father Heathen]

She's only good for word salad. We'll be seeing a lot of that in the future.

I'll take word salad over treason and rape any day.

 

[oldbadger]

She's only good for word salad. We'll be seeing a lot of that in the future.

What ever is Trump good for?
And I rather think that Kamala Harris will prove to be an amazing President, so lets hope that she makes it there.

 

[Aupmanyav]

If a person doesn't live in a swing state, the odds of their vote making any sort of difference is sort of null and void. The electoral college votes will go to whoever carries the state, other than in a very small handful of states that may split votes.

I tend to forget that. In India the person who gets most votes becomes the member of Parliament, and then the Parliament elects the Prime Minister. Normally, the most popular party and the most popular politician gets to become the Prime Minister. We get into problems when no party gets a majority, then coalitions come up. Modi is currently leading a coalition and his party does not have a majority in the Parliament. Votes in India tend to swing wildly.

 

[wellwisher]

She's still the lesser evil of the two. Trump will be no better - if not worse - for the Palestinians. She at least called for a cease-fire deal.
Israel does seem to have a scary amount of influence in the U.S.

You guys are so naive. In Trump's first term, he would not allow anyone who traded with the US, to buy Iranian oil or face US tariffs. China even stopped buying their Iranian oil, since they sell a lot of good here.

Iran is the bank for all those terror group in the Middle East, including Hamas. With little oil money for Iranthe region was peaceful under Trump. Biden and Harris opened access to assets for Iran, thereby allowing Iran the money needed get back into the terrorist business. The attack on Israel was funded by Harris and Biden, via Iran. Now Harris acts she just woke up and someone else did it. They are either stupid or puppets of the War Material Machine, who needs war to make profit. The money and weapons we give Israel goes to weapons manufacturers.

I was listening to RFK Jr, yesterday during his speech, and he said that before Ukraine was invaded by Russia, the two countries had worked on a peace agreement and come to a compromise. Biden-Harris, put sand in gears of that agreement, because the war hawks saw this as an opportunity to tie up Russia in all consuming war. What happened next is 600,000 Uranian casualties, 100,000 Russian casualties and $200 Billion tax dollar given to weapons manufacturers.

It is risky voting for a puppet who will not define themself. Unless you know who the puppet master are, all types of negative self serving outcome can appear from their puppeteers. Harris is not sharp enough, which makes her a disaster waiting to happen.