Is Harvard waging war on Christianity - liberalism run amuck?

[whirlingmerc]

Having put a Christian group on probation for being consistent with their beliefs?
Is this going too far and if not why not.

 

[sayak83]

Having put a Christian group on probation for being consistent with their beliefs?
Is this going too far and if not why not.

Perfectly legit. Student groups get university money and can't discriminate based on race, sex, gender etc.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

@whirlingmerc I'd like to ask you about this inconsistency I often see in right wing ideology- if you would.

Usually, a conservative would agree that the consumers have the right to dictate an industry right? That's what drives and grows the industry.

Why do you try to make colleges and universities an exception from that? Since in the United States they aren't free and cost money. A college student is a kind of 'consumer'.

Why should these consumers and the universities providing the service have to allow certain kinds of speech and thought on their own grounds? Students pay for this service and many of them do not want intolerance in their environment.

Why is this an exception for right-wingers usually defending this dynamic of consumer choice?

 

[Sunstone]

Having put a Christian group on probation for being consistent with their beliefs?
Is this going too far and if not why not.

Some Christians have a persecution complex. They think they're singled out, when in truth the rules applied to others are just being applied to them. The persecution complex, I believe, is part of their tradition and is reinforced by their Bible. It's deeply rooted in their religion and will never entirely go away, in my opinion. That is, there will always be some Christians who embrace the narrative that Christians are always persecuted -- even in places like the Western democracies.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Having put a Christian group on probation for being consistent with their beliefs?
Is this going too far and if not why not.

Um, a university is pretty much a progressive/liberal institution. The promotion of tolerance and to forbade discriminatory practices is the foundation to progressive/liberalism.

 

[Father Heathen]

The Christians whining about this are probably the same sort who defend bakeries that deny gay customers.

 

[idav]

Having put a Christian group on probation for being consistent with their beliefs?
Is this going too far and if not why not.

If there is a club that is part of the school and they want to discriminate based on religion then they need to take the bigotry off campus. Work places and businesses are also not allowed either. A church can be bigots if they like but best they not get government funding. Universities have to abide by federal law not to descriminate based on race religion gender or sexual orientation or people will sue their pants off.

 

[Altfish]

Um, a university is pretty much a progressive/liberal institution. The promotion of tolerance and to forbade discriminatory practices is the foundation to progressive/liberalism.

What you seem to be saying is that knowledge leads to progressive liberalism. Isn't knowledge and understanding a good thing?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

What you seem to be saying is that knowledge leads to progressive liberalism. Isn't knowledge and understanding a good thing?

SMH yes and your point?

 

[whirlingmerc]

If there is a club that is part of the school and they want to discriminate based on religion then they need to take the bigotry off campus. Work places and businesses are also not allowed either. A church can be bigots if they like but best they not get government funding. Universities have to abide by federal law not to descriminate based on race religion gender or sexual orientation or people will sue their pants off.

Religious views are not second class views rather constitutionally protected.
There is a right to free association as well. The Obama admin may have felt sex rights trump religious rights always in every way but its a disappointment when Harvard lemmings along over that precipice.

 

[whirlingmerc]

What you seem to be saying is that knowledge leads to progressive liberalism. Isn't knowledge and understanding a good thing?

An equivocation of wisdom and progressive liberalism, they seem to have lost their way as per what is stamped on their diplomas.

from WIki:
The official seal of the Harvard Corporation. Found onHarvard diplomas, it carries the university's original motto, Christo et Ecclesiae ("For Christ and Church"), later changed to Veritas ("Truth").

 

[Altfish]

SMH yes and your point?

That's what universities are for - extending knowledge, making you think about long held beliefs, etc.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

An equivocation of wisdom and progressive liberalism, they seem to have lost their way as per what is stamped on their diplomas.

from WIki:
The official seal of the Harvard Corporation. Found onHarvard diplomas, it carries the university's original motto, Christo et Ecclesiae ("For Christ and Church"), later changed to Veritas ("Truth").

And? Just once, could some group somewhere attempt to be more inclusive without bunker mentality Christians shrieking about being persecuted?

 

[Altfish]

An equivocation of wisdom and progressive liberalism, they seem to have lost their way as per what is stamped on their diplomas.

from WIki:
The official seal of the Harvard Corporation. Found onHarvard diplomas, it carries the university's original motto, Christo et Ecclesiae ("For Christ and Church"), later changed to Veritas ("Truth").

Well in this multicultural world with people of many faiths and none; doesn't it make sense to change those blinkered mottos

 

[Altfish]

An equivocation of wisdom and progressive liberalism, they seem to have lost their way as per what is stamped on their diplomas.

from WIki:
The official seal of the Harvard Corporation. Found onHarvard diplomas, it carries the university's original motto, Christo et Ecclesiae ("For Christ and Church"), later changed to Veritas ("Truth").

Precisely, it isn't about Christian persecution it is about rebalancing Christian privilege.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

One can only imagine how @whirlingmerc would feel if the university were taking action against a Muslim group discriminating against Christians.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Some Christians have a persecution complex. They think they're singled out, when in truth the rules applied to others are just being applied to them. The persecution complex, I believe, is part of their tradition and is reinforced by their Bible. It's deeply rooted in their religion and will never entirely go away, in my opinion. That is, there will always be some Christians who embrace the narrative that Christians are always persecuted -- even in places like the Western democracies.

What I like to call "armchair" persecution.

I theorise that since the Bible speaks about how the true believers will find themselves being persecuted, and that such persecution is a sign you're on the right path, it pulls at the conscience of many overweight, under exercised middle class westerners that their lives are somewhat lacking in persecution, and so to cover this seeming gap in their spiritual lives, they'll desperately take anything remotely misconstruable as persecution and wrap it around themselves like a big reasuring blanket.

..."unfounded internet rumour that one of the Columbine murderers asked someone if they were a Christian before he killed her? HE WAS PERSECUTING CHRISTIANS! Thank goodness, Christians are being persecuted, I am a Christian, therefore I am being persecuted, QED. I'm so glad I can sleep soundly in my warm queen size bed after eating twice my daily recomended caloric requirement and not feel guilty about the world's poor or starving. What with me being PERSECUTED and all, I must be on the right track. I can't wait for the "war on Christmas" to start up to make me feel even more persecuted and thereby justify my blatant crass consumerism"

 

[HonestJoe]

Having put a Christian group on probation for being consistent with their beliefs?
Is this going too far and if not why not.

It seems like the University has a clear set of rules which will apply equally to all associated organisations. If an organisation is unwilling or unable to follow those rules, it can't continue it's formal association with the University. "But we're following out beliefs" isn't a legitimate excuse, not least because allowing it effectively opens up literally anything.

 

[Underhill]

Religious views are not second class views rather constitutionally protected.
There is a right to free association as well. The Obama admin may have felt sex rights trump religious rights always in every way but its a disappointment when Harvard lemmings along over that precipice.

So tell me, assuming you are right (you aren't), why should a groups religious rights trump the individuals rights?

 

[idav]

Religious views are not second class views rather constitutionally protected.
There is a right to free association as well. The Obama admin may have felt sex rights trump religious rights always in every way but its a disappointment when Harvard lemmings along over that precipice.

Religious views are allowed on campus but for some reason you think freedom of religion should give privilege to break the law. It doesn't and shouldn't.