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Is Heaven, Nirvana etc the goal?

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I believe that is a worthy goal.

Do you have any desire for eternal life, Heaven or another life on earth?
I believe that if i do what Allah ask of me now when i am a human being, the result will be as Allah have said, a place in Paradise, But do i hold a desire that i want, or have to go to paradise? I would say no, i do believe desire is keeping me away from actually entering paradise.

Would i want or wish for a new life as a human being? No, human life is not what a sufi seeking, only closeness to Allah is what i am seeking. But even the seeking would have to be let go of in the end too (i believe)

Being like an empty cup (no desire) is better then being full of desire for something i can not know if i reach or not.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I believe that if i do what Allah ask of me now when i am a human being, the result will be as Allah have said, a place in Paradise, But do i hold a desire that i want, or have to go to paradise? I would say no, i do believe desire is keeping me away from actually entering paradise.

Would i want or wish for a new life as a human being? No, human life is not what a sufi seeking, only closeness to Allah is what i am seeking. But even the seeking would have to be let go of in the end too (i believe)

Being like an empty cup (no desire) is better then being full of desire for something i can not know if i reach or not.

I believe for a Christian there is never separation from God.
Rom 8:39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I believe that reference to paradise will be equivalent to the Kingdom of God where there is eternal life. However how do you know whether or not God requires something different of you than to be a good person?
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I believe for a Christian there is never separation from God.
Rom 8:39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I believe that reference to paradise will be equivalent to the Kingdom of God where there is eternal life. However how do you know whether or not God requires something different of you than to be a good person?
In my understanding i would not enter paradise if i have not purified my mind and body fully so there is no attachments left with in my being. To a sufi there is no Christ to believe in who took away our sins. the only way to purify our being is by fixing our wrong doings, and become without what you call sin.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I believe from the number of false statements he makes that he can't possibly have a revelation from God. However I don't believe he is a deceiver but perhaps deluded in some cases.
Which statements?
People are free to believe whatever they want to believe, and they will.
I get my information from God directly so it is never a matter of misinterpretation. I would be glad to do a logical review though if you think you can rather than just toe the religious line.
I do not believe that anyone except the Messengers of God get information directly from God.
I would be open to a logical review.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I believe for a Christian there is never separation from God.
Rom 8:39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Scriptures of other religions also have similar statements about not being separated from the love of God.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Scriptures of other religions also have similar statements about not being separated from the love of God.
A little correction. "Scriptures of other religions also have similar statements about not being separated from the love of "THEIR" God and "THEIR" prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations / mahdis. Not doing that annoys "THEIR" Gods.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
My goal now is to advise my children in life and help my wife of 54 years till I live to the extent I can. I have fulfilled all my other goals.
That's plenty, and taking care of your wife and children is what matters most in life.
I hope you and your family are staying healthy. Today I had tears in my eyes when I heard the news on TV about what is happening with the pandemic in India. :cry:
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Yeah, the situation in India is dire. We also had our brush with corona. Myself, son and one grandson testing +ve. The grandson is still +ve but has not encountered any problem. He is 9 (In India, testing is not always reliable, it is more of a business). My wife, unfortunately, has developed some intestinal hemorrhage due to precautionary anti-biotics that were given, but I think she will be able to overcome that soon. Got the ultra-sound done. Unnecessary inconvenience. All that is life.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Yeah, the situation in India is dire. We also had our brush with corona. Myself, son and one grandson testing +ve. The grandson is still +ve but has not encountered any problem. He is 9. My wife, unfortunately, has developed some intestinal hemorrhage due to precautionary anti-biotics that were given, but I think she will be able to overcome that soon. Got the ultra-sound done. Unnecessary inconvenience. All that is life.
Okay, thanks for the update, I was worried about you. Please let me know how things are going.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I hear a lot of Christians say they are looking forward to eternity in Heaven. Hindus say they want to become one with God and Buddhists say they want to reach Nirvana.

However the Gospel (Good news) is that people will spend eternity in a new body on earth.

Perhaps what God thinks is good is different from what people thing is good.
It's a good question. I've asked myself the same.

Let me give you a tidbit of background. I have had moments of grave doubt in my past, especially during times of deep depression, when all sense of the divine deadens. When I am in those times of pain of course it is hard not to wonder things like, if there is a loving God, why would he allow such unjust suffering. I have begun to doubt everything, from the afterlife to the very existence of God.

It seems that my doubts only reach that level of severity when I'm clinically depressed, thank goodness. But I do have to adjust my theology to account for the possibilities the get me to see.

For example, during one such episode, I took a formal vow that should it turn out that there is no God, I would still live my life as though God existed, since I saw that life to be the best of all possible lives.

In Judaism, I am taught that we obey God for the sake of our covenant. God is worthy to be obeyed simply because he is God.

But for me it is also tied up in this existential awareness that the moral religious life is the best of all possible lives, even should God turn out not to exist. So, most of the time, I believe in God, and obey out of love and awe. But even when my sense of the divine is deadened, I'm still right in there, observing my covenant.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
In Judaism, I am taught that we obey God for the sake of our covenant. God is worthy to be obeyed simply because he is God.
It is the same in the Baha'i Faith as we have the Covenant of Baha'u'llah that He made with His followers. We are required not only to believe on Baha'u'llah, we are also required to obey the Laws He set forth. These are called The Twin Duties.
But for me it is also tied up in this existential awareness that the moral religious life is the best of all possible lives, even should God turn out not to exist. So, most of the time, I believe in God, and obey out of love and awe. But even when my sense of the divine is deadened, I'm still right in there, observing my covenant.
It is the same here, except that no matter how bad I feel I never question that God exists. I know God exists.
I do not obey God out of love or awe, I obey out of duty and because I believe it is the right thing to do.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
In my understanding i would not enter paradise if i have not purified my mind and body fully so there is no attachments left with in my being. To a sufi there is no Christ to believe in who took away our sins. the only way to purify our being is by fixing our wrong doings, and become without what you call sin.

I believe then that you are still in your sin and will not be able to enter paradise.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
John 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

I believe that the many mansions are in heaven, not on earth and that Jesus was preparing a place in heaven for His disciples so that they could be with Jesus always.

As a Baha'i, I believe that the new Jerusalem is the new Revelation from God that came through Baha'u'llah, which fulfills all the promises of God as recorded in the holy Scriptures. The Law of God in the following passage refers to the Revelation of Baha'u'llah.

“The time foreordained unto the peoples and kindreds of the earth is now come. The promises of God, as recorded in the holy Scriptures, have all been fulfilled. Out of Zion hath gone forth the Law of God, and Jerusalem, and the hills and land thereof, are filled with the glory of His Revelation. Happy is the man that pondereth in his heart that which hath been revealed in the Books of God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. …..

In the Book of Isaiah it is written: “Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of His majesty.” No man that meditateth upon this verse can fail to recognize the greatness of this Cause, or doubt the exalted character of this Day—the Day of God Himself. This same verse is followed by these words: “And the Lord alone shall be exalted in that Day.” This is the Day which the Pen of the Most High hath glorified in all the holy Scriptures.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 12-13

I believe there is nothing physical in Heaven and that includes Jesus.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I believe then that you are still in your sin and will not be able to enter paradise.
It's not that you disagree with him that bothers me. It that you come across like you aren't even listening to him,not even trying to understand what he's saying. You aren't making the effort to stand in his shoes and see through his eyes. The bluntness of your reply comes across like, "It really doesn't matter what you say -- its different from what I say therefore it is just wrong and of no worth."
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
It's not that you disagree with him that bothers me. It that you come across like you aren't even listening to him,not even trying to understand what he's saying. You aren't making the effort to stand in his shoes and see through his eyes. The bluntness of your reply comes across like, "It really doesn't matter what you say -- its different from what I say therefore it is just wrong and of no worth."

I believe that is a false assumption. Purity is always worthwhile. It is just that attempting to get into paradise that way will not work.

I believe it is definitely wrong for achieving his goal.

I believe you will find that I, God speak that way. I get right to the point.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Which statements?
People are free to believe whatever they want to believe, and they will.

I do not believe that anyone except the Messengers of God get information directly from God.
I would be open to a logical review.

I believe that is entirely contrary to what happens in Christianity.

I believe messenger of God, no reincarnation.

I believe that would be beneficial. Let us say that bonafides of a messenger do not come with self accreditation. For me that means, if God is not accrediting the messenger to me then there is no bonafide.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Yeah, the situation in India is dire. We also had our brush with corona. Myself, son and one grandson testing +ve. The grandson is still +ve but has not encountered any problem. He is 9 (In India, testing is not always reliable, it is more of a business). My wife, unfortunately, has developed some intestinal hemorrhage due to precautionary anti-biotics that were given, but I think she will be able to overcome that soon. Got the ultra-sound done. Unnecessary inconvenience. All that is life.

I will pray for you and your family.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I will pray for you and your family.
Thanks, Muffled. Every one in the family is better. Perhaps today my wife will join me in our room (we had been quarantined in separate room for the last week). Now, in the last 54 years, my wife and myself have always shared the bed, even when we may have been angry or not talking to each other. So, this separation was something new.
 
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