Is Heaven, Nirvana etc the goal?

[Trailblazer]

I believe the RCC has had a belief that the end time resurrection would take place in the same body if it were buried in Holy ground. I believe that is superstition. Paul describes the resurrection in I Cor 15 with a clear indication that it is a new body.

I agree that is superstition and I agree with Paul, which is in accordance with Bahai beliefs..

1 Corinthians 15:40-54 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[c] this Scripture will be fulfilled: “Death is swallowed up in victory.[d]

Read full chapter

“The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157

“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.” Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194

 

[Muffled]

I agree that is superstition and I agree with Paul, which is in accordance with Bahai beliefs..

1 Corinthians 15:40-54 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[c] this Scripture will be fulfilled: “Death is swallowed up in victory.[d]

Read full chapter

“The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157

“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.” Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194

I believe the B verses are not referring to a new body but rather to a soul that has left a body.

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe the B verses are not referring to a new body but rather to a soul that has left a body.

They are referring to the new spiritual body (a new form) that that the soul will take on after it leaves the physical body.

“The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157

“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.” Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194

 

[Muffled]

They are referring to the new spiritual body (a new form) that that the soul will take on after it leaves the physical body.

“The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157

“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.” Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194

I believe a spiritual body has a body and a soul that has left a body does not. You evidently do not understand what he is saying even if he knew what he were saying was true.

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe a spiritual body has a body and a soul that has left a body does not. You evidently do not understand what he is saying even if he knew what he were saying was true.

I believe a spiritual body is a body and a soul that has left the physical body takes on a spiritual body.
What he is saying is that in the spiritual world the human reality (which is the soul) takes on a heavenly form made up of elements of that heavenly realm. (Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194)

 

[Muffled]

I believe a spiritual body is a body and a soul that has left the physical body takes on a spiritual body.
What he is saying is that in the spiritual world the human reality (which is the soul) takes on a heavenly form made up of elements of that heavenly realm. (Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194)

I believe it is different from having a body but there is a spiritual body that the Apostle Paul talks about that is a body and does not take place at death but at the resurrection.

I believe no-one knows what elements a spirit has other than the fact that it no longer is attached to a physical form. I suppose lack of physical form can be thought of as heavenly.

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe it is different from having a body but there is a spiritual body that the Apostle Paul talks about that is a body and does not take place at death but at the resurrection.

The following paragraph is what I believe the resurrection really means. Take note of the last sentence.
The death of man is merely his passing from one world into another and in the Bible “death” means resurrection and continuation of life. It is when that life continues in the spiritual world (heaven) that it gets the spiritual body Paul spoke of.

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

I believe no-one knows what elements a spirit has other than the fact that it no longer is attached to a physical form. I suppose lack of physical form can be thought of as heavenly.

I agree, nobody knows what the spiritual form will be like. All we know is that it won't be physical.

 

[Muffled]

The following paragraph is what I believe the resurrection really means. Take note of the last sentence.
The death of man is merely his passing from one world into another and in the Bible “death” means resurrection and continuation of life. It is when that life continues in the spiritual world (heaven) that it gets the spiritual body Paul spoke of.

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

I agree, nobody knows what the spiritual form will be like. All we know is that it won't be physical.

I believe that statement by the B man shows again why he is not a messenger of God because he is wrong. Resurrection by definition means a return to the body.

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe that statement by the B man shows again why he is not a messenger of God because he is wrong. Resurrection by definition means a return to the body.

Baha'u'llah did not write that. it was written by Emanuel Swedenborg:

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351

Below is what Baha'u'llah wrote about the true meaning of Resurrection. It has nothing to do with bodies, or with the continuation of life in the afterlife, it has to do with spiritual life in THIS world.

“……..And yet, through the mystery of the former verse, they have turned away from the grace promised by the latter, despite the fact that “attainment unto the divine Presence” in the “Day of Resurrection” is explicitly stated in the Book. It hath been demonstrated and definitely established, through clear evidences, that by “Resurrection” is meant the rise of the Manifestation of God to proclaim His Cause, and by “attainment unto the divine Presence” is meant attainment unto the presence of His Beauty in the person of His Manifestation. For verily, “No vision taketh in Him, but He taketh in all vision.” 6”
The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 169-170

“Strive, therefore, O my brother, to grasp the meaning of “Resurrection,” and cleanse thine ears from the idle sayings of these rejected people. Shouldst thou step into the realm of complete detachment, thou wilt readily testify that no day is mightier than this Day, and that no resurrection more awful than this Resurrection can ever be conceived. One righteous work performed in this Day, equalleth all the virtuous acts which for myriads of centuries men have practised—nay, We ask forgiveness of God for such a comparison! For verily the reward which such a deed deserveth is immensely beyond and above the estimate of men. Inasmuch as these undiscerning and wretched souls have failed to apprehend the true meaning of “Resurrection” and of the “attainment unto the divine Presence,” they therefore have remained utterly deprived of the grace thereof.”
The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 144-145

“Inasmuch as these undiscerning and wretched souls have failed to apprehend the true meaning of “Resurrection” and of the “attainment unto the divine Presence,” they therefore have remained utterly deprived of the grace thereof.” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, p. 145

“At the time of the appearance and manifestation of the rays of the Daystar of Truth, all occupy the same station. God then proclaimeth that which He willeth, and whoso heareth His call and acknowledgeth His truth is accounted among the inhabitants of Paradise. Such a soul hath traversed the Bridge, the Balance, and all that hath been recorded regarding the Day of Resurrection, and hath reached his destination. The Day of God’s Revelation is the Day of the most great Resurrection. We cherish the hope that, quaffing from the choice wine of divine inspiration and the pure waters of heavenly grace, thou mayest attain the station of discovery and witnessing, and behold, both outwardly and inwardly, all that which thou hast mentioned.”

The Tabernacle of Unity, pp. 62- 63

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe that statement by the B man shows again why he is not a messenger of God because he is wrong. Resurrection by definition means a return to the body.

Baha'u'llah did not write that. it was written by Emanuel Swedenborg:

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351

Below is what Baha'u'llah wrote about the true meaning of Resurrection. It has nothing to do with bodies, or with the continuation of life in the afterlife, it has to do with spiritual life in THIS world.

“……..And yet, through the mystery of the former verse, they have turned away from the grace promised by the latter, despite the fact that “attainment unto the divine Presence” in the “Day of Resurrection” is explicitly stated in the Book. It hath been demonstrated and definitely established, through clear evidences, that by “Resurrection” is meant the rise of the Manifestation of God to proclaim His Cause, and by “attainment unto the divine Presence” is meant attainment unto the presence of His Beauty in the person of His Manifestation. For verily, “No vision taketh in Him, but He taketh in all vision.” 6”
The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 169-170

“Strive, therefore, O my brother, to grasp the meaning of “Resurrection,” and cleanse thine ears from the idle sayings of these rejected people. Shouldst thou step into the realm of complete detachment, thou wilt readily testify that no day is mightier than this Day, and that no resurrection more awful than this Resurrection can ever be conceived. One righteous work performed in this Day, equalleth all the virtuous acts which for myriads of centuries men have practised—nay, We ask forgiveness of God for such a comparison! For verily the reward which such a deed deserveth is immensely beyond and above the estimate of men. Inasmuch as these undiscerning and wretched souls have failed to apprehend the true meaning of “Resurrection” and of the “attainment unto the divine Presence,” they therefore have remained utterly deprived of the grace thereof.”
The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 144-145

“Inasmuch as these undiscerning and wretched souls have failed to apprehend the true meaning of “Resurrection” and of the “attainment unto the divine Presence,” they therefore have remained utterly deprived of the grace thereof.” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, p. 145

“At the time of the appearance and manifestation of the rays of the Daystar of Truth, all occupy the same station. God then proclaimeth that which He willeth, and whoso heareth His call and acknowledgeth His truth is accounted among the inhabitants of Paradise. Such a soul hath traversed the Bridge, the Balance, and all that hath been recorded regarding the Day of Resurrection, and hath reached his destination. The Day of God’s Revelation is the Day of the most great Resurrection. We cherish the hope that, quaffing from the choice wine of divine inspiration and the pure waters of heavenly grace, thou mayest attain the station of discovery and witnessing, and behold, both outwardly and inwardly, all that which thou hast mentioned.”
The Tabernacle of Unity, pp. 62- 63

 

[Muffled]

I believe Swedenborg is a philosopher with no better idea of things than the B man and in many cases even less credibility.

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe Swedenborg is a philosopher with no better idea of things than the B man and in many cases even less credibility.

You can believe whatever you want to but that won't change reality.

 

[Muffled]

"It hath been demonstrated and definitely established, through clear evidences, that by “Resurrection” is meant the rise of the Manifestation of God to proclaim His Cause"

I believe his statement is false and there is nothing in a Biblical text that supports it.

 

[Muffled]

You can believe whatever you want to but that won't change reality.

I believe I usually say that. However it is the B man who has to have credibility not me. And he doesn't have it.

 

[Trailblazer]

"It hath been demonstrated and definitely established, through clear evidences, that by “Resurrection” is meant the rise of the Manifestation of God to proclaim His Cause"

I believe his statement is false and there is nothing in a Biblical text that supports it.

I believe this statement is true. There is nothing in a Biblical text that supports it because it was revealed AFTER the Bible was written.

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe I usually say that. However it is the B man who has to have credibility not me. And he doesn't have it.

He does not have credibility for you but He has it for me. Such is the way with beliefs.

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

I hear a lot of Christians say they are looking forward to eternity in Heaven. Hindus say they want to become one with God and Buddhists say they want to reach Nirvana.

However the Gospel (Good news) is that people will spend eternity in a new body on earth.

Perhaps what God thinks is good is different from what people thing is good.

I don't want to exist for eternity even if it was some place good, because eventually everything loses its appeal and there's no new experiences. Also the idea of spending time with the God of the bible is a terrifying proposal.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't want to exist for eternity even if it was some place good, because eventually everything loses its appeal and there's no new experiences. Also the idea of spending time with the God of the bible is a terrifying proposal.

I do not think we can know if it will lose its appeal because all we have to base that upon is our life in THIS world, since we have never experienced anything else. But I understand how you feel, because I am not very excited about the prospect of living forever anywhere!
As for the Bible God, I am not looking forward to getting cozy-wozy with Him either.

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

I do not think we can know if it will lose its appeal because all we have to base that upon is our life in THIS world, since we have never experienced anything else. But I understand how you feel, because I am not very excited about the prospect of living forever anywhere!
As for the Bible God, I am not looking forward to getting cozy-wozy with Him either.

That's a fair point.

 

[Muffled]

I believe this statement is true. There is nothing in a Biblical text that supports it because it was revealed AFTER the Bible was written.

I believe a philosopher of religion does not create scripture. You can delude yourself into thinking it is true but it never will be.