• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Is Hell Necessary To Christianity?

ellenjanuary

ellenjanuary

Well-Known Member
Storm said:
As a theologically-minded Unitarian Universalist, I've been following the thread Why is universalism heresy? with great interest.

Several folks have expressed the thought that, without Hell, Christianity falls apart completely.

I don't get it.

If you share the opinion above (and are willing to defend it), kindly explain why you think eternal damnation is the lynchpin of Christianity.

Furthermore, if something so ugly is so important to the religion, doesn't that make the religion itself despicable?

ETA: Penguin reminded me that some people have milder understandings of Hell, like separation from God. I was assuming people were talking about the classical fire and brimstone and torture. Please be specific in your response. :)
Click to expand...

I was already to forgive and forget - they've been killing my people for the past 1700 years, but I'm bigger than that. Then I found this pamphlet, lying on the ground, talking about the necessities of Christian life which included "eternal damnation..."

So, if the church down the road does not stone me to death on Sunday, I'll give you a clearer answer... but generally, from personal experience, I have never met a Christian who hasn't got something to say about hell
 
Midnight Pete

Midnight Pete

Well-Known Member
Storm said:
Yeah, and we've got plenty of those without the "doctor" burning us at the stake.
Click to expand...

People do that to other people because they are given over to their wickedness. It has everything to do with religion and nothing to do with Christ.
 
Erebus

Erebus

Well-Known Member
From what I've seen, Hell is absolutely necessary to those Christians who believe that Jesus died so that man can be saved from Hell. If Hell didn't exist, Jesus' death would be meaningless.
The other argument is that Hell is necessary if God loves us.
Neither of these arguments make much sense to me. If God didn't want people to go to Hell, why create it in the first place? If he loves us why would he harm us? I don't get it personally.

I believe that Christians are much better focussing on being good to one another and I have much more respect for Christians who follow this idea rather than trying to save people from Hellfire (or worse, simply threaten people that Hell is where they are headed).
Of course being of a LHP mindset myself I don't believe that everybody loving each other is feasible, but hey, credit for trying anyway :cool:
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
Shyanekh said:
From what I've seen, Hell is absolutely necessary to those Christians who believe that Jesus died so that man can be saved from Hell. If Hell didn't exist, Jesus' death would be meaningless.
The other argument is that Hell is necessary if God loves us.
Neither of these arguments make much sense to me. If God didn't want people to go to Hell, why create it in the first place? If he loves us why would he harm us? I don't get it personally.
Click to expand...
The only reason that makes sense to me is that the Christian god needs to be adored, glorified, and praised. Admittedly an odd characteristic for a god, having a psychological need, but until someone comes up with a better explanation that's the one I'm going with.
 
Etritonakin

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
IMO, Christianity is all wrapped up in the idea of a divine Saviour. If you don't have something to save everyone from, you don't have a Saviour.

This doesn't imply eternal damnation specifically, but it does imply something very unpleasant for the "unsaved".
Click to expand...

What people can be saved from is SIN and DEATH!

"HELL" -not the popular concept, but what is actually said to occur in the bible -just expedites things which would take place anyway....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

This may seem to say "Obey me or I'll kill you" -and that is technically correct to a point -and in the end, but the reality is that sin -the transgression of the law -disobedience to God -leads to death A N Y W A Y.

Jer 21:8 And unto this people thou shalt say, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I set before you the way of life, and the way of death.

Our bodies are a system (which includes the mind) -which is part of a larger system -so on and so forth...
It is obvious to most that there are certain rules we must follow for our bodies to be healthy and for our environment to be healthy.
However, our minds do not necessarily contain or decide to follow rules which are to our own benefit or longevity.

The ten commandments are rules -based on the systems which exist -which ensure not only that we be happy while alive on earth, but are able to live into eternity -and that without conflict. They are merely rules God or men made up for whatever reason.

They are the way TO life -anything and everything else literally leads to death. All else eventually results in misery and death.

All who UTTERLY REFUSE to do what is necessary for ALL to be happy throughout eternity will eventually be COMPLETELY destroyed in gehennna -the "lake of fire".

There is more to it, but that's the short version. The torment part is not as many claim -though some will be tormented therein.
 
Last edited:
uu_sage

uu_sage

Active Member
As a Christian Universalist, I believe our Christian faith does well without the presence of hell. Hell turns God from our loving Father and savior of all into a imperfect, bipolar and avenging monster. Hell and damnation allows for the presence of hell on Earth that is filled with injustice, hate, cruelty and exclusion. Hell denies that everyone is a blessed child of God. Hell causes people to join the "church alumni society", hell creates conflict amongst religions and inspires divisions in families. Hell is born of humanity's limitations, hate, exclusion, and entitlement. Christianity I believe should center on the religion of Jesus (his teachings, his example and intimate encounter with God) as opposed to the religion made up about Jesus (doctrines and creeds). God has to be better than us not worse. As Christians we should be concerned with loving God with all being, loving others including our enemies, doing justice, loving mercy and walking humbly with God. Scripture says that God's perfect love casts out fear. An imperfect love creates fear.
 
Midnight Pete

Midnight Pete

Well-Known Member
Lawrence said:
So you're actually saying that one needs to be a "sinner" or "sinful" before He actually tries to seek God?
Click to expand...

Yes, in the way way you have need to have a toothache before you go to let the dentist poke around in your mouth. Hopefully, it doesn't get to the point where you have a dental abscess and are putting your health in danger. But if you can't bring yourself to go to the dentist, the abscess might actually kill you. Unless you acknowledge your dentist's ability to make things better, things will only get worse.
 
Penumbra

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Midnight Pete said:
Yes, in the way way you have need to have a toothache before you go to let the dentist poke around in your mouth. Hopefully, it doesn't get to the point where you have a dental abscess and are putting your health in danger. But if you can't bring yourself to go to the dentist, the abscess might actually kill you. Unless you acknowledge your dentist's ability to make things better, things will only get worse.
Click to expand...
What if the dentist designed the system that ensured every baby is born with cavities?
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
uu_sage said:
As a Christian Universalist, I believe our Christian faith does well without the presence of hell. Hell turns God from our loving Father and savior of all into a imperfect, bipolar and avenging monster. Hell and damnation allows for the presence of hell on Earth that is filled with injustice, hate, cruelty and exclusion. Hell denies that everyone is a blessed child of God. Hell causes people to join the "church alumni society", hell creates conflict amongst religions and inspires divisions in families. Hell is born of humanity's limitations, hate, exclusion, and entitlement. Christianity I believe should center on the religion of Jesus (his teachings, his example and intimate encounter with God) as opposed to the religion made up about Jesus (doctrines and creeds). God has to be better than us not worse. As Christians we should be concerned with loving God with all being, loving others including our enemies, doing justice, loving mercy and walking humbly with God. Scripture says that God's perfect love casts out fear. An imperfect love creates fear.
Click to expand...
So in as much as there's nothing to be saved from (typically, hell) you don't consider Jesus to be a savior, and therefore his death really didn't suddenly generate any change in anyone or anything, such as an atoning for sins. Pretty much makes him just a good guy.

Interesting.
 
Penumbra

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Midnight Pete said:
I've never heard of a baby being born with teeth, let alone with cavities. But every child will eventually require dental care.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying that babies are born with teeth. It's a metaphor, using your metaphor.

The concept that people are inherently born with an invisible, undetectable problem is a means of control.
 
Midnight Pete

Midnight Pete

Well-Known Member
Penumbra said:
I'm not saying that babies are born with teeth. It's a metaphor, using your metaphor.

The concept that people are inherently born with an invisible, undetectable problem is a means of control.
Click to expand...

Yes, and that invisible undetectable problem --the corruptibility of the human body-- is perfectly in-line with the corruptibility of the soul.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top