Is homosexuality a choice?

[MW0082]

fear is an element for consideration, it's not a removal of will.

Sure it is, when it is embedded in you that homosexuality is wrong and you're going to hell. That could easily remove one's will and desire to be who they truely are.

you dont compare things that are the same, you compare things that are similar.
and if you'd like to explain why these things are not similar (keeping in mind that what you are discussing is period specific), then you probably should.

gays and interacial couples are not the same. hatred for homosexuals is a much longer battle, and more rooted into our society than interacial couples. So no, not the same or even similair. No comparison to be made.

you're right, it didn't make sense because i misworded it.
edit: i, for one, value honesty and expression more than security and acceptance. so i ... choose to accept myself and expect others to do the same (or get over it).

Thats the problem is not everyone allows others to do so, thats the point.

i've answered your argument as to why you think being openly homosexual is not a choice. you haven't provided another one. and please try to keep in mind that we're not discussing the chemistry that causes attraction, we're discussing open homosexuality.

What does it matter if someone is open about their homosexuality or not? they are still homosexuals, and it is still not their choice.....:drool:

Also I would like to point out you're speaking to a homosexual man, who has first hand experience of what I am discussing.

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

Sure it is, when it is embedded in you that homosexuality is wrong and you're going to hell. That could easily remove one's will and desire to be who they truely are.

coercion is not a removal of responsibility. simply because something's hard, does not make it impossible, and does not keep it from being a choice.

gays and interacial couples are not the same. hatred for homosexuals is a much longer battle, and more rooted into our society than interacial couples. So no, not the same or even similair. No comparison to be made.

you're ignoring the cultural context.
there was a time in history where having an open relationship with a person of a different race (or even expressing attraction for a person of a different race) could result in being ostracized from ones family, church and peer groups. it could result in physical violence and the threat of hell. marriage between persons of different races was not recognized by the state. you dont see ANY similarities between these two things, really?

Thats the problem is not everyone allows others to do so, thats the point.

nobody can disallow you the ability to make a choice, they can simply set up consequences for making a particular choice. there are consequences to EVERY choice.

What does it matter if someone is open about their homosexuality or not? they are still homosexuals, and it is still not their choice.....:drool:

a person has a choice to be open with their homosexuality. i dont know how else to put this. and i have not, for one minute, suggested that homosexual attraction is a choice.

 

[MW0082]

coercion is not a removal of responsibility. simply because something's hard, does not make it impossible, and does not keep it from being a choice.

Wow you must never had to swim against the current.... gay children and teens do not feel like they have achoice sometimes. They have religious fanatics telling them it's a phase and they are going to hell. You don't think it takes their choice away, even a little bit??

If you don't your wrong, and unless your gay you could never know.

you're ignoring the cultural context.
there was a time in history where having an open relationship with a person of a different race (or even expressing attraction for a person of a different race) could result in being ostracized from ones family, church and peer groups. it could result in physical violence and the threat of hell. marriage between persons of different races was not recognized by the state. you dont see ANY similarities between these two things, really?

Oh I am sorry what scripture does it condemn the interacial couples...? Society has some similarities but no the homosexual agenda is much much bigger than any we have faced to date!!!

nobody can disallow you the ability to make a choice, they can simply set up consequences for making a particular choice. there are consequences to EVERY choice.

Those consequences could be so severe that it takes your choice away. Oh be a homosexual and burn in hell or not be and go to heaven? What choice would YOU make....

a person has a choice to be open with their homosexuality. i dont know how else to put this. and i have not, for one minute, suggested that homosexual attraction is a choice.

But you're missing the point, you think anyone can walk out on the street and be open abpouyt their homosexuality. they cannot, their freedoms are limited and they have fear.

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

Wow you must never had to swim against the current.... gay children and teens do not feel like they have achoice sometimes. They have religious fanatics telling them it's a phase and they are going to hell. You don't think it takes their choice away, even a little bit??

If you don't your wrong, and unless your gay you could never know.

first of all, you dont really know very much about me.
second, you're not listening. and i'm tried of repeating myself.
third, saying "unless you're gay you could never know" is a cop-out.

Oh be a homosexual and burn in hell or not be and go to heaven? What choice would YOU make....

if i was a homosexual who believed in hell, i would choose to burn for all eternity before i rejected who i was.
but from what i remember of your posts, you dont believe in hell, do you?

But you're missing the point, you think anyone can walk out on the street and be open abpouyt their homosexuality. they cannot, their freedoms are limited and they have fear.

ok, yes you can.
and fear is something that has been overcome by millions throughout history to bring about necessary change in society.

 

[MW0082]

first of all, you dont really know very much about me.
second, you're not listening. and i'm tried of repeating myself.
third, saying "unless you're gay you could never know" is a cop-out.

No i don't know you, but I can tell you feel you always have a choice. I am telling you from first hand experience you may not know that. The fear takes away that choice. Speaking of repeating themselves

if i was a homosexual who believed in hell, i would choose to burn for all eternity before i rejected who i was.
but from what i remember of your posts, you dont believe in hell, do you?

No I do not believe in hell, but as a child I worked my *** of to try and not be gay. Out o FEAR OF GOING OT HELL. Do you see my point yet????

ok, yes you can.
and fear is something that has been overcome by millions throughout history to bring about necessary change in society.

Tell that to a gay child who cuts themselves instead of being encouraged to be who they are. No fear takes their choice away, maybe not for YOU, but you cannot speak for everyone now can you...

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

Tell that to a gay child who cuts themselves instead of being encouraged to be who they are. No fear takes their choice away, maybe not for YOU, but you cannot speak for everyone now can you...

i'm not trying to speak for everyone, i'm simply trying to speak logically rather than basing my responses on anecdotal claims.

and you're not listening.
so, we dont have to keep doing this.

 

[MW0082]

i'm not trying to speak for everyone, i'm simply trying to speak logically rather than basing my responses on anecdotal claims.

and you're not listening.
so, we dont have to keep doing this.

No it is you who is not listening, and thats fine. I was done going around in a circle anyways.....

 

[Gloone]

You can pay me a couple million dollars, do a science experiment and we will see how much of a choice it is. :seesaw:

 

[Engyo]

You can pay me a couple million dollars, do a science experiment and we will see how much of a choice it is. :seesaw:

When did you choose to become straight? Do you remember making the choice?

 

[Gloone]

When did you choose to become straight? Do you remember making the choice?

When i discovered the opposite sex. lol

 

[Quiddity]

It makes a difference when bigots attempt to use the "choice" fallacy to deny that LGBT's deserve the same rights as heterosexuals.

You think a lack of them having this argument would then make them non-bigots?

I'm just thinking that choice or no-choice, the rights would still be denied.

 

[Engyo]

When i discovered the opposite sex. lol

And this was truly a concious choice on your part? you looked at the options, thought about it, and then made the decision to be straight?

If so, you are extremely rare. Most know exactly what their orientation is without ever "choosing".

 

[tomato1236]

And this was truly a concious choice on your part? you looked at the options, thought about it, and then made the decision to be straight?

If so, you are extremely rare. Most know exactly what their orientation is without ever "choosing".

I remember thinking that women on tv commercials were total babes when I was about 7 years old.

 

[Smoke]

Your friend is gay or bi

Or an idiot.

I agree with you completely. Frankly, I’m a little offended that because of my friend’s religious beliefs, he thinks I can go out and perform oral sex on Bill tonight. I’m not saying that there is no way that I would, but there would have to be a whole lot of money or a gun involved.

Oh. About dinner: something suddenly came up.

 

[Smoke]

I am sorry but your arguement falls flat. there is nothign else you can do that your family church and friends would abandon you for. Your told you're going to hell,oh and there are people out there that hate you so much they want to kill you. Again, no one would choose to be gay.

It generally takes a while -- due mostly to society's attitudes -- before you start to appreciate it. I'm really, really glad I'm gay. But when I was fifteen, it was a whole other story.

 

[Smoke]

You think a lack of them having this argument would then make them non-bigots?

I'm just thinking that choice or no-choice, the rights would still be denied.

Of course they would. People are not bigots because they aren't aware of the data. They refuse to accept the data because they're bigots.

 

[Quiddity]

Of course they would. People are not bigots because they aren't aware of the data. They refuse to accept the data because they're bigots.

I'm not sure where that leaves me then. I will happily accept the data and probably still object.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

When i discovered the opposite sex. lol

So you have absolutely no attraction for men left whatsoever?

 

[Gloone]

And this was truly a concious choice on your part? you looked at the options, thought about it, and then made the decision to be straight?

If so, you are extremely rare. Most know exactly what their orientation is without ever "choosing".

You may be right. But psychology is always a good field to study. There is a lot that can be learned from it. Was probably one of the better classes I took in college.

 

[Gloone]

So you have absolutely no attraction for men left whatsoever?

Who said I ever had one.