Is ISIS a disaster for all muslims?

[Shadow Wolf]

Actually it is Islam that is their rocket fuel, if you will. Granted, though many Muslims are revolted by the thought, it's all in how one chooses to interpret the texts. Since there is no clergy in Islam, folks are pretty well able to interpret things as they see fit. If you don't like what one Imam says, find another who is closer to your thinking.

That holds true for pretty much any religion. And when you can't find a leader that agrees with you, the historical trend is to branch of and start your own denomination.
ISIS is not only bad for Muslims because they have been their main targets, I have no doubt that people are going to start targeting Muslims because of the Islamic State banner ISIS waves. We still haven't gotten over the 9/11 Islamophobia, and now these ****-for-brains show up. And there will probably be more Islamaphobia, creating more marginalized Muslims, which will provide more recruiting opportunities for ISIS and the next group that emerges.

 

[metis]

At least here, people who do such things are prosecuted instead of being praised.

BTW, just saw a loon with my drive back home, so when I just saw your avatar, I just had to let you know that I just saw one of your relatives.

 

[Smart_Guy]

I have no idea what their justification is, or whether its just emotion.

beheading the news reporter is another recent example.

Yeah, that was shocking. That is not even the way of execution in Islam. They fail miserably in trying to fake the act of being Muslims. Only seen a still photo of them both standing before the execution started. Any idea if there is any possible reason they could claim (or claimed) for killing him?

 

[metis]

"The Jews were made to come down, and Allah’s Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina, and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."
Ishaq 464

 

[Smart_Guy]

Even here in Canada, we find reports of forced marriages, honour killings, attempts to impose gender apartheid, genital mutilation, young men going overseas to join al-Shebab and ISIS etc.

At least here, people who do such things are prosecuted instead of being praised.

All of those above are fought against by Islam.

In my part of Saudi Arabia, what used to be called the kingdom of Hijaz before, I see absolutely nothing of those. Please believe me, no matter what you see, it can never stand for the whole thing, not even close to it. What I hear of, are reports from far parts of Saudi Arabia in local news done by non Hijazi locals, and from other Arab countries, and they sound like fairy tales to me because of their weirdness and our disapproval of it.

Hijaz is where Makkah is, the center and source of Islam.

 

[Smart_Guy]

"The Jews were made to come down, and Allah’s Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina, and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."
Ishaq 464

That's way out of context BTW. You have no idea what the Jews did to Muslims that time. The last treaty breach done by the jews then, almost wiped all Muslims of all ages and genders out of the face of earth after having them tortures in the most inhumane way. If my memory serves me right, it was three betrayals the Jews done, and they were forgiven in all of them until that last one happened. Those Jews BTW were like 3 Arab tribes and some of them still exist. I know of those in Yemen at least. They didn't represent all Jews I know.

And boys were spared. That is a wrong part in the source.

This was discussed before and everything was clarified. If you want more clarifications please start a new thread, because it is too much to post here.

 

[metis]

That's way out of context BTW. You have no idea what the Jews did to Muslims that time. The last treaty breach done by the jews then, almost wiped all Muslims of all ages and genders out of the face of earth after having them tortures in the most inhumane way. If my memory serves me right, it was three betrayals the Jews done, and they were forgiven in all of them until that last one happened. Those Jews BTW were like 3 Arab tribes and some of them still exist. I know of those in Yemen at least. They didn't represent all Jews I know.

Sorry, but playing the blame game doesn't work here as beheading is allowed in Islam, which is the point I made with what I quoted and where you were incorrect.

Also, as far as your claim of what the Jews supposedly did, could you source that for us using an actual historical source?

 

[Smart_Guy]

Sorry, but playing the blame game doesn't work here as beheading is allowed in Islam, which is the point I made with what I quoted and where you were incorrect.

Also, as far as your claim of what the Jews supposedly did, could you source that for us using an actual historical source?

Beheading in Islam being allowed, does not mean allowing to behead everyone they see for no reason. Your statement above implies that yes it does, that is incorrect.

Blaming game has nothing to do with the main subject. You opened a can of worms by bringing an inaccurate example.

You know there is nothing such as an actual historical source . I mean in the way that each side will claim that the sources given from the is wrong, not as a real thing. But anyways, if I'm not mistaking, my source is the same source you used, but in its original Arabic from. Still, you can have an overview here:
Invasion of Banu Qurayza - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As I said before, there is so much about it and it will only break this thread.

And also, being a native Makkan Muslim myself, I'd say that all sources are not 100% correct. I say that only the warriors were executed. Otherwise, how would there be Jews in Yemen now? Yes, there are Jews in Yemen for real. No sources is need for this, everyone knows it.

 

[metis]

Beheading in Islam being allowed, does not mean allowing to behead everyone they see for no reason. Your statement above implies that yes it does, that is incorrect.

Blaming game has nothing to do with the main subject. You opened a can of worms by bringing an inaccurate example.

You know there is nothing such as an actual historical source . I mean in the way that each side will claim that the sources given from the is wrong, not as a real thing. But anyways, if I'm not mistaking, my source is the same source you used, but in its original Arabic from. Still, you can have an overview here:
Invasion of Banu Qurayza - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As I said before, there is so much about it and it will only break this thread.

And also, being a native Makkan Muslim myself, I'd say that all sources are not 100% correct. I say that only the warriors were executed. Otherwise, how would there be Jews in Yemen now? Yes, there are Jews in Yemen for real. No sources is need for this, everyone knows it.

You're attempting to obscure the point I made, namely that Islam does allow beheading under certain conditions, so you were wrong-- period. I couldn't care less when it may or may not be allowed, nor do I really care what your opinion may be as far as the accuracy of the Qur'an or the Hadith, as this was not under any discussion by myself.

salaam

 

[TashaN]

"The Jews were made to come down, and Allah’s Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina, and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."
Ishaq 464

Not THE Jews, but only one single tribe of them which is Banu Qurayza.

I have two questions for you?

1- Have you or have you not read the Constitution of Medina or the Medina charter?

2- Why only banu Qurayza, one Jewish tribe was killed but not the other two Jewish tribes?


Thank you.

 

[metis]

Not THE Jews, but only one single tribe of them which is Banu Qurayza.

I have two questions for you?

1- Have you or have you not read the Constitution of Medina or the Medina charter?

2- Why only banu Qurayza, one Jewish tribe was killed but not the other two Jewish tribes?


Thank you.

1. No

2. I need some historical confirmation that hasn't as of yet been supplied.

Salaam, and I gotta go.

 

[TashaN]

1. No

2. I need some historical confirmation that hasn't as of yet been supplied.

Salaam, and I gotta go.

Then you should read it if you are interested to know the rules binding the entire state of Medina at that time. Regarding the source, you can simply read the one which Smart_Guy gave you. it says:

The Banu Qurayza, a Jewish tribe in Medina, formed an alliance with the Muslim community led by Islamic Prophet Muhammad. This community soon faced a siege from Meccan forces who were in a state of war with the Muslims. According to the treaty between them,[citation needed] the Banu Qurayza would not take part in the battle against the Meccans, but neither would they attack the Muslims. The community survived the siege, but the Banu Qurayza betrayed the alliance by colluding with enemy forces.

The Banu Qurayza where subsequently besieged for 25 days until they surrendered and faced a judgement for their breach.[1] One of Muhammad's companions, Sa'd ibn Mua'dh, who was also a member of an tribe allied to the Banu Qurayza and a former Jew,[citation needed] was agreed upon to act as judge. He ruled that "the men should be killed, the property divided, and the women and children taken as captives". Some sources claim that this sentence was derived from Jewish testimony and law. Muhammad approved of the ruling, calling it fair as it was according to the Jew's own laws.

They were judged by their own law because they broke the treaty by aiding the enemy against the Muslims. That's they were killed but not the other two Jewish tribes. Please read more about it from non-biased sources.

 

[Smart_Guy]

You're attempting to obscure the point I made, namely that Islam does allow beheading under certain conditions, so you were wrong-- period. I couldn't care less when it may or may not be allowed, nor do I really care what your opinion may be as far as the accuracy of the Qur'an or the Hadith, as this was not under any discussion by myself.

salaam

Why are you saying this? You told a peace of out-of-context info about Islam, regardless to whither it was about the discussion or not, and I tried to clarify or it could unfairly hurt Islam and Muslims.

Would you have liked it if I did the same to Judaism that could hurt Jews and Judaism? No you wouldn't. And just to let you know, neither would I, and I mean having Judaism and the Jews hurt.

Really sorry, didn't mean for it to stray that way

 

[steeltoes]

Them atrocities being committed by ISIS and similar groups are horrifying the non-muslim world.

People will now be suspicious of their muslim neighbours: would they do such things if they thought they could get away with them?

Young muslims leaving peaceful places like Canada to join such groups reinforces the negative impression of islam that the jihadis are producing.

Will things be worse for muslims than they would be without the jihadist groups?

What difference does it make if a Canadian goes into Iraq and fights for his country (Canada), or fights for ISIS? Killing is killing either way, what's so specially horrific about ISIS or Muslims?

 

[steeltoes]

ISIS has a long way to go to show that they are as barbaric as the western forces that invaded and occupied Iraq for the last ten years, only time will tell.

 

[Sees]

What difference does it make if a Canadian goes into Iraq and fights for his country (Canada), or fights for ISIS? Killing is killing either way, what's so specially horrific about ISIS or Muslims?

Do you think someone who goes around shooting rabid, wild dogs is comparable to someone who goes around shooting family dogs in backyards?

 

[steeltoes]

Do you think someone who goes around shooting rabid, wild dogs is comparable to someone who goes around shooting family dogs in backyards?

You can pretty it up by putting lipstick on a pig but all I see is barbarians slaughtering anything that moves and civilized people trying to avoid the crossfire.

 

[steeltoes]

The only difference I can see is that the western forces invaded Iraq from the south, and ISIS is invading Iraq from the north, beyond that I just can't make out any distinctions.

 

[Looncall]

BTW, just saw a loon with my drive back home, so when I just saw your avatar, I just had to let you know that I just saw one of your relatives.

I hope you heard the loon too. It's a special sound. I like it best on a canoe trip at dusk with a mist over the lake.

 

[outhouse]

You can pretty it up by putting lipstick on a pig but all I see is barbarians slaughtering anything that moves and civilized people trying to avoid the crossfire.

He addressed the reality of the situation, instead of making garbage excuses for terrorism and barbaric behavior by throwing out red herrings to the crowd.