paarsurrey
Veteran Member
There won't be any real conflict with the western values when Islam spreads in the West, as it will happen very peacefully and according to the constitution of a country.
Regards
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Is Islam Compatible With Western Values?
- Thread starter Rival
- Start date
I am sorry, but every single part of this statement is unlikely to happen.
The conflict is already happening and will grow a lot louder before it is solved.
The spread is probably not too far from its highest point.
Constitutions and countries are useless in helping the situation.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Nevertheless, it is going to happen in 300 years from 1908, the year of demise of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. He prophesied it.
Regards
Sees
Dragonslayer
Would still be in conflict with certain Western values. Even if we rename ideologies, principles, values, etc. that are conflicting/incompatible - they remain conflicting/incompatible...labels are just labels, they simply help with identification and communication.
gnostic
The Lost One
I am not arguing against your point(s).
I just find it very funny that Muslims often blame western culture of being "Imperialism", but they ignore the imperialistic nature of Islam itself.
Islam became imperialism on the very first day, Muhammad and his followers set foot on Medina. The day when they began attacking in revenge for those who refused to follow him as a "prophet" or as "messenger". The conquest of the rest of Arabian peninsula, destroying idols and forcing others to submit to Islam, is just that - an act of imperialism.
And after Muhammad's death, what did the Islamic leaders and armies did with their neighbors? They had invaded them, in order to spread Islam. The whole successive caliphates that followed, have always being imperialistic in nature.
It funny how they (Muslims of today) always blame America and Israel, and any other nations for being imperialism, and yet they ignored their own imperialistic history.
And like Ex Muslim wrote in his reply:
Muhammad have set his religion against others as opponents.
If the opponents won't accept Islam through gentle persuasion and peaceful conversions, then they will make wars upon them, take their land, freedom, and steal their properties, just as Muhammad have done when he was alive.
Yes, and many American and Europeans (well, and Chinese, and Japanese, and...) deny that their colonialism and imperialism has had any negative effects on other people/nations--and yet history shows that civilization has been round after round of peoples rising, conquering and then fading...and sometimes rising to conquer again, often justifying their actions as reactions to the unjustified invasions by others that took place long, long ago.
It needs to end. IMO, of course.
gnostic
The Lost One
It is not going to happen, because the Sunni don't follow Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.
In world population, there are about 86 to 90% of Sunni, comparing the less than 1% of Ahmadis. The Ahmadis may be peaceful, but the Sunnis see Mirza as a false messiah and heretics, and view all Ahmadis as heretics.
So I don't much much hope for Mirza's so-called prophecies, affecting the Sunnis, or the Shiites for that matter.
gnostic
The Lost One
The problem is that we are humans, and it is human nature to beat the craps out of others for disagreeing them. It is in our nature to be a bully, whether we do it for political, social, cultural or religious reason. They will always try to justify their actions, for any one of (or combination of) those reasons.
No one can learn from their mistakes of the pasts, and that's why history keep repeating itself, because they can't help themselves.
On my more positive days, I would disagree because I am sometimes optimistic. More often, like today, I think you've nailed it.
gnostic
The Lost One
On my more positive days, I would disagree because I am sometimes optimistic. More often, like today, I think you've nailed it.
Well, in my younger days, I was not so much as optimistic, I was more of an idealist. But the older I get, realism have crept in, and I have become somewhat of a realist or a cynic.
I still wished that we get alone with each other, but it is very hard to maintain an idealistic outlook, when all I see around me are hypocrites, whenever they be in politics, in cultures or in religions.
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No, I don't think it is.
Western society has moved beyond repression of women. Islam has not. Western society embraces all cuisines. Islam does not. Western society accepts the religious affiliations of others. Islam does not.
I'd like to say that Western society had moved beyond violence but, unfortunately, we are still neck and neck in that area.
However, Islam seems to delight in blowing people to tiny bits with IEDs, which is, in my eyes, a particularly brutal method and they do it for the pettiest of reasons.
gnostic
The Lost One
Islam also favour severing hands for petty theft, but Muhammad was highway bandit, robbing merchant caravans, so Islam is a hypocritical religion.
Flogging and possible stoning for adultery for women, or women who don't have their heads or limbs suitably covered, or for women going out unescorted by male relatives. The Qur'an even encouraged domestic violence for controlling disobedient wife/wives.
Honour killings for apostasy or any other family dishonour, like those already mentioned in the above paragraph about treatment of women.
Islam did not stop slavery. Arab nations were still practising slavery as late as 1970s. It was only diplomatic pressures from other nations that have Arab nations have started banning slavery, as illegal activity.
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gnostic
The Lost One
While the Golden Age of Islam was better for women than the contemporary Christian kingdoms, it is still not great for women because they are treated like properties, not as humans.
And the western societies have outstripped Muslim countries in the last couple of centuries.
Equality for women in Islam or during the Islamic caliphates is a myth.
And the western societies have outstripped Muslim countries in the last couple of centuries.
Equality for women in Islam or during the Islamic caliphates is a myth.
skl
A man on a mission
The writing is on the wall. It is only a short time away before some indoctrinated crazy fool gets their hands on a nuclear device. This is why many nations are increasing military spending such as the UK who have built and launched the most sophisticated submarine ever built with awesome capabilities to counter such a threat.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
skl
A man on a mission
I understand it is not in keeping with the original topic but I was supposed to have quoted this post:
paarsurrey said: ↑
There won't be any real conflict with the western values when Islam spreads in the West, as it will happen very peacefully and according to the constitution of a country.
It is quite unlikely any of the current terrorist groups will pose a nuclear threat, however the future terrorists may have more money and access to these types of weapons.
FunctionalAtheist
Hammer of Reason
Hem. What are "the values that the Qur'an, Shariah, etc."
I doubt it will be possible to wait 300 years.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
About 100 years have already past and the progress is good.
Regards