Is Islam Compatible With Western Values?

[icehorse]

Is Islam Compatible With Western Values?

What are the Western values?
Will somebody reflect on it? please.
Regards

Personally I'd prefer to defend "secular humanist" values. "Western values" seems to imply an "us vs. them" orientation that isn't necessary. Once again, I'll point you to the Universal Declaration on Human Rights (UNDHR) created by the United Nations. To me, it's a good summary of secular humanist values (which I think is probably what most people here mostly mean when they say "Western values").

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country

It's important to remember that the world's Muslim leaders rejected this declaration and created their own version - The Cairo Declaration on Human Rights. The Cairo declaration is "Sharia friendly", and it stands in clear conflict with the UNDHR. (For example when it comes to freedom from religion.)

 

[DawudTalut]

.....I like this branch but am still suspicious of the possibility of a hidden agenda.
Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.

Peace be on you.
Their hidden agenda is very visible.
Why so far anyone in the world [who know things in space and in depth of earth and water and hear voices all over the world and can see into all offices etc ] could not find that 'secret agenda'.
Their records are all open.....One cannot keep secrets upto 127 years, in many generations, in many places, and after so much persecution.

One may directly pray to God for knowing their secret agenda!
What else can be offered?

 

[morphesium]

Is Islam Compatible With Western Values?

If the founder of islam -Mr. Mohammed happened to be born at this age in any part of the civilized world, he would be put in jail (most probably life sentence) for multiple counts of anti-social and anti-moral activities ranging from pedofilia to torturing to killing innocents. Or perhaps there are a few "potential islamic prophets" awaiting execution in these jails for their heinous crimes.

 

[Yerda]

I would rest easier at night if I believed that. How did you come to such a conclusion?

By the observation that hundreds of millions of Muslims seem to wish to follow some form of Islam but not force everyone else to do so.

Certainly the scripture is not consistent with your conclusion?!

Religious scripture is consistent with anything.

 

[icehorse]

By the observation that hundreds of millions of Muslims seem to wish to follow some form of Islam but not force everyone else to do so.

Religious scripture is consistent with anything.

As far as I know, about 1/3 or 1/2 of all Muslims want Islam to be political. Let's say it's only 1/4, just for the sake of argument. While 1/4 certainly isn't the majority, don't you think that it would be more accurate to say that Islam itself is political?

As far as your comment of scripture goes, I don't buy your argument. Scripture is what helps to keep certain ideas alive from generation to generation. In other words - while your comment is philosophically true, in practice there are certain interpretations of scripture that remain predominate from generation to generation. And of course the easy answer is that written words DO convey meaning.

 

[paarsurrey]

If the founder of islam -Mr. Mohammed happened to be born at this age in any part of the civilized world, he would be put in jail (most probably life sentence) for multiple counts of anti-social and anti-moral activities ranging from pedofilia to torturing to killing innocents. Or perhaps there are a few "potential islamic prophets" awaiting execution in these jails for their heinous crimes.

Muhammad did nothing of that sort. It is just wrong imagination of some people.
Muhammad was in fact a man of this age as much as of the time1400 years ago. He would have been a hero in the East as well in West, if he would have been here in this time.
Regards

 

[icehorse]

Muhammad did nothing of that sort. It is just wrong imagination of some people.
Muhammad was in fact a man of this age as much as of the time1400 years ago. He would have been a hero in the East as well in West, if he would have been here in this time.
Regards

What did he do that makes you say that?

 

[Yerda]

While 1/4 certainly isn't the majority, don't you think that it would be more accurate to say that Islam itself is political?

Maybe. I'm not sure. Is it the case?

As far as your comment of scripture goes, I don't buy your argument. Scripture is what helps to keep certain ideas alive from generation to generation. In other words - while your comment is philosophically true, in practice there are certain interpretations of scripture that remain predominate from generation to generation. And of course the easy answer is that written words DO convey meaning.

I agree.

The Koran can obviously be interpreted according to the political aspirations held by the interpeter but does it itself add up to a political manifesto? I don't think so.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Muhammad was in fact a man of this age as much as of the time1400 years ago. He would have been a hero in the East as well in West, if he would have been here in this time.
Regards

Except today we tend to put those who adhere to non-violence, such as Dr. King and Gandhi, on a pedestal. And while Muhammad was a man of his times, he is not a man of this time. Leonardo Da Vince, Jon Stewart Mill, Percy Shelley, they were men are men of these times and were way ahead of their times, and we hold them up for their ideas, their ingenuity, and their lasting contributions on society as a whole. Muhammad started a religion that permits slavery, represses women, and limits our freedoms. Da Vince was on the trail to discovering evolution and Natural Selection centuries before Darwin and he invited hydraulics and robots and made improvements to many areas such as cartography, Mill wrote for freedom of speech and association, and even equality of the sexes, and Shelley bravely advocated for atheism during a time when it was very difficult to be open about being atheist in the West.

 

[icehorse]

@Jaiket Let's say hypothetically that 1/4 of Muslims think of Islam as having an important political component. A component that advocates for theocracies. So just for the sake of discussion, if that was true, would agree that we could fairly say that "Islam has a strong political component" ? (This is really just a question about semantics at this point)

As for the Quran... hmmm, the translations I studied seem to have a strong political component. Are you saying that as you've read the Quran you haven't seen that message?

 

[paarsurrey]

@Jaiket Let's say hypothetically that 1/4 of Muslims think of Islam as having an important political component. A component that advocates for theocracies. So just for the sake of discussion, if that was true, would agree that we could fairly say that "Islam has a strong political component" ? (This is really just a question about semantics at this point)
As for the Quran... hmmm, the translations I studied seem to have a strong political component. Are you saying that as you've read the Quran you haven't seen that message?

Islam does not advocate "theocracy", it advocates fair rule based on justice to everybody and human right for everybody:

[4:59]Verily, Allah commands you to make over the trusts to those entitled to them, and that, when you judge between men, you judge with justice. And surely excellent is that with which Allah admonishes you! Allah is All-Hearing, All-Seeing.
[4:60]O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obeyHis Messenger and those who are in authority among you. And if you differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah andHisMessenger if you are believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is best and most commendable in the end.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=4&verse=58​

Regards

 

[Yerda]

@Jaiket Let's say hypothetically that 1/4 of Muslims think of Islam as having an important political component. A component that advocates for theocracies. So just for the sake of discussion, if that was true, would agree that we could fairly say that "Islam has a strong political component" ? (This is really just a question about semantics at this point)

That seems fair.

As for the Quran... hmmm, the translations I studied seem to have a strong political component. Are you saying that as you've read the Quran you haven't seen that message?

Some of it could be desribed in terms of politics, yes.

 

[icehorse]

Islam does not advocate "theocracy", it advocates fair rule based on justice to everybody and human right for everybody:

[4:59]Verily, Allah commands you to make over the trusts to those entitled to them, and that, when you judge between men, you judge with justice. And surely excellent is that with which Allah admonishes you! Allah is All-Hearing, All-Seeing.
[4:60]O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obeyHis Messenger and those who are in authority among you. And if you differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah andHisMessenger if you are believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is best and most commendable in the end.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=4&verse=58​

Regards

Hi paarsurrey, I might be using the term "theocracy" a bit different than what's normal. In the case of Islam, what I mean is that a country's laws are based on Sharia, and judges are religious, and they judge cases from the religious, Sharia perspective. So you might well argue that my definition doesn't strictly fit the definition of "theocracy", but I'd argue that in practice, if a country's legal system is ruled by religion, that's a largely theocratic country.

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi paarsurrey, I might be using the term "theocracy" a bit different than what's normal. In the case of Islam, what I mean is that a country's laws are based on Sharia, and judges are religious, and they judge cases from the religious, Sharia perspective. So you might well argue that my definition doesn't strictly fit the definition of "theocracy", but I'd argue that in practice, if a country's legal system is ruled by religion, that's a largely theocratic country.

The day to day affairs of a country are not run by the religious scripture but the statues of law of a country. Quran does not interfere with it.
Regards

 

[icehorse]

The day to day affairs of a country are not run by the religious scripture but the statues of law of a country. Quran does not interfere with it.
Regards

Well that's one way of running a country, but that's not Sharia.

 

[paarsurrey]

Well that's one way of running a country, but that's not Sharia.

Religion has got nothing to do with ruling a country .
Regards

 

[icehorse]

Religion has got nothing to do with ruling a country .
Regards

Well you and I agree on that, hooray. Sadly, hundreds of millions of Muslims disagree with you and me.

 

[paarsurrey]

Well you and I agree on that, hooray. Sadly, hundreds of millions of Muslims disagree with you and me.

Thanks for agreeing with me.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Is Islam Compatible With Western Values?

Sure, it is.
It is one reason that Islam is one of the fastest growing religion even in the West:
"People switch religion when they realised that their new religion offers better facts on religon itself. For example, after 911, Christians in the west swicthed to Islam more than ever before. Why? They wanted to know whether Islam supports terrorism and they read the Quran. They then realised that Islam, from the Quran answers most of the questions they were pondering about in Christanity, and it is NOT related to terrorism. Other things that add to swithcing to Islam is the ending wars pertrated against muslims. The Danish cartoon alone led many Christians to revert to Islam. Europeans wanted to know why Muslim boycotted Danish products, and read the Quran. They also found amazing facts about their lives and religion."
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/23/why-muslims-are-the-worlds-fastest-growing-religious-group/#comment-659878
Right?
Regards

 

[RabbiO]

Is Islam Compatible With Western Values?

Sure, it is.
It is one reason that Islam is one of the fastest growing religion even in the West:
"People switch religion when they realised that their new religion offers better facts on religon itself. For example, after 911, Christians in the west swicthed to Islam more than ever before. Why? They wanted to know whether Islam supports terrorism and they read the Quran. They then realised that Islam, from the Quran answers most of the questions they were pondering about in Christanity, and it is NOT related to terrorism. Other things that add to swithcing to Islam is the ending wars pertrated against muslims. The Danish cartoon alone led many Christians to revert to Islam. Europeans wanted to know why Muslim boycotted Danish products, and read the Quran. They also found amazing facts about their lives and religion."
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/23/why-muslims-are-the-worlds-fastest-growing-religious-group/#comment-659878
Right?
Regards

So, you think that the response of an individual, whose qualifications, if any, are unknown, in the comments section on the Pew Research website constitutes an accurate and authoritative statement?

Do the responsible adults in your household know that you're playing on the internet?