Is Islam Responsible for the Charlie Hebdo Murders?

[Elusive Truth]

And this is the problem: There is no atheist doctrine that mandates murder of believers, and in any event there is no evidence that the shooting was in any way related to the religion.

But one can't help but notice that militant Atheism has a lot in common with radical Islamist.

There is a connection to be made here, being that the radical Islamist ideology was wrong and in fact did/does not know God.

 

[leibowde84]

There was one case where an atheist murdered several Muslim students. That wasn't some obscure article in the newspaper, that made headlines and it's one of the recent events. But you refer to countries themselves punishing Muslims. They don't behead them on the street like the way you put it, but even a lot of Muslim countries won't behead non Muslims on the street anyway. That's one of many examples but you won't believe me anyway even if I showed you. You'll still believe religion is all some giant maniacal control scheme even though that was not it's original intention. You'll still believe all deities are fake even though it doesn't make any logical sense for civilized people to build statues and temples to deities that don't exist. You'll believe what you want anyway no matter what I say or what evidence I offer.

It's not Europe but look at Burma and see what they've done to non Buddhists, including Muslims. Some have called it outright genocide.

The example of the atheist is not a relevant one. It has been discovered that he knew the family that he killed, and he had personal issues with them specifically. While I'm sure he had ill-feelings toward Islam and Muslims in general, he had a personal relationship with the victims. Thus, it cannot be said that it was done purely for religious reasons.

 

[Elusive Truth]

The example of the atheist is not a relevant one. It has been discovered that he knew the family that he killed, and he had personal issues with them specifically. While I'm sure he had ill-feelings toward Islam and Muslims in general, he had a personal relationship with the victims. Thus, it cannot be said that it was done purely for religious reasons.

Via court of law, yes indeed.

 

[gsa]

But one can't help but notice that militant Atheism has a lot in common with radical Islamist.

There is a connection to be made here, being that the radical Islamist ideology was wrong and in fact did/does not know God.

Really? I see almost nothing in common between atheism of any sort and Islam of any sort. One cannot imagine two more diametrically opposed positions. By contrast, there is much in common between Christianity and Islam, theologically and historically, in their treatment of nonbelievers.

 

[Elusive Truth]

Really? I see almost nothing in common between atheism of any sort and Islam of any sort. One cannot imagine two more diametrically opposed positions. By contrast, there is much in common between Christianity and Islam, theologically and historically, in their treatment of nonbelievers.

There is a common cause between "militant atheism" and "radical Islam" indeed.

My family line is survivors from State imposed Atheism.

I do not consider myself a Christian, but from what I can gather of Christian is that Christians know their God.

hence... radical Islam and Atheist do not.

 

[jonathan180iq]

But one can't help but notice that militant Atheism has a lot in common with radical Islamist.

If we are going to make the connection that atheism lead to those murders then how can we deny that Islam lead to the killings at CH?

If we legally recognize hate crimes based on religion as a cause for more severe punishment, then don't we likewise have to recognize murders based on religious "rules" as being in that same vein?

 

[Elusive Truth]

If we are going to make the connection that atheism lead to those murders then how can we deny that Islam lead to the killings at CH?

If we legally recognize hate crimes based on religion as a cause for more severe punishment, then don't we likewise have to recognize murders based on religious "rules" as being in that same vein?

a "Radical" Islamist is no different from my vantage point than an Atheist, I believe a "radical" Islamist is a non-believer.

*neither value a human life as sacred and are willing to kill, on a State level or individual level.

 

[gsa]

a "Radical" Islamist is no different from my vantage point than an Atheist, I believe a "radical" Islamist is a non-believer.

*neither value a human life as sacred and are willing to kill, on a State level or individual level.

Muslims believe in God, atheists do not. Muslims have plenty additional dogmas in addition to that of course.

The idea that atheists don't value human life is absurd, given that most atheists believe that this is the only life we've got.

 

[Cephus]

I said nobody would build statues and temples to DEITIES that don't exist. Does anyone worship Harry Potter or Gundam? Does anyone do religious rituals and chants based around these two? I actually have a better question. Do you read people's posts first? Seriously?

Obviously, you're wrong because the world is full of statues and temples to deities that don't exist. There's a big difference between BELIEVING something exists and something actually existing.

Of course they didn't just build statues and temples but also wrote numerous literature, i.e. poems, prayers, ect. Also, you probably didn't but look what Burma has done to non Buddhists, including Muslims. But oh it's not in Europe so I guess that doesn't count right?

Because people have been focused on Europe and the UK. I've brought up the violence in Myanmar many times. In fact, you're the one who said that Muslims face discrimination and specifically listed an event that happened in the U.S. Don't go blaming me when I responded to what you wrote.

You're well known for exaggerating on this forum and have this pretentious snooty attitude towards others. I don't have to prove anything to you. Not that it matters because you're so stubborn and close-minded you'll refuse it even if it's in your face. I see, so it's over a PARKING space? Because there's no religious ties, does that make it alright? What does it matter? You say Muslims don't face tough times, yet they clearly are. I'm not brainwashed by the media like you and research this stuff.

You didn't have anything to begin with, you just threw something out that you obviously had no clue about and were hoping I didn't know either. When I proved you wrong, you shifted the goalposts. Oh, there must have been some reason for the killings! Clearly you haven't researched any of this stuff because you keep proving you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about. You're just making a fool of yourself.

 

[Jumi]

Cartoons are not a declaration of war. They are nowhere near the same as the rape and murder scenario you discussed earlier. After your efforts to censor CH failed, your options were ignore it or protest it. Instead, some Muslims decided to murder cartoonists. And you express solidarity with the murderers. To most of humanity, that's vile and evil.

And let's not forget the murderers killed Muslims and others.

 

[jonathan180iq]

a "Radical" Islamist is no different from my vantage point than an Atheist, I believe a "radical" Islamist is a non-believer.

*neither value a human life as sacred and are willing to kill, on a State level or individual level.

But aren't you then just making exceptions based on your subjective concept of who knows god and who doesn't? I'll guarantee that none of the young men who joined ISIS yesterday would deny their staunch devotion to God. Did the priests who ordered the execution of thousands of people during the inquisition do so because they didn't value the holiness of the Lord God Almighty above man?

You can't pick and choose when it's convenient.

Institutionalized atheism is a terrible thing, as you've mentioned your family line had to survive it.
Does that make an individual atheist guilty of institutionalized atheism?
Are you going to blame me for what institutionalized atheism did to your family?

Institutionalized Islam is a terrible thing. Does that make individual Muslims terrible people?
Institutionalized Christianity is a terrible thing. Does that make individual Christians terrible people?

The answer to each of those questions should be "no".

 

[Cephus]

And let's not forget the murderers killed Muslims and others.

Which murderers?

 

[Elusive Truth]

Muslims believe in God, atheists do not. Muslims have plenty additional dogmas in addition to that of course.

The idea that atheists don't value human life is absurd, given that most atheists believe that this is the only life we've got.

Yes Muslims believe in God...

Radical Islamist do not...

Are you saying that all Muslims are Radical?

 

[gsa]

Which murderers?

The CH murderers.

 

[gsa]

Yes Muslims believe in God...

Radical Islamist do not...

Are you saying that all Muslims are Radical?

You don't think that ISIS members believe in God? Who are they shouting is great?

 

[Elusive Truth]

But aren't you then just making exceptions based on your subjective concept of who knows god and who doesn't? I'll guarantee that none of the young men who joined ISIS yesterday would deny their staunch devotion to God. Did the priests who ordered the execution of thousands of people during the inquisition do so because they didn't value the holiness of the Lord God Almighty above man?

You can't pick and choose when it's convenient.

Institutionalized atheism is a terrible thing, as you've mentioned your family line had to survive it.
Does that make an individual atheist guilty of institutionalized atheism?
Are you going to blame me for what institutionalized atheism did to your family?

Institutionalized Islam is a terrible thing. Does that make individual Muslims terrible people?
Institutionalized Christianity is a terrible thing. Does that make individual Christians terrible people?

The answer to each of those questions should be "no".

I have no subjective reality...

So I will pass on reading the rest of this reply on false pretext.

 

[jonathan180iq]

I have no subjective reality...

So I will pass on reading the rest of this reply on false pretext.

So you are the absolute supreme authority on objective declarations of who knows god and who doesn't?

I bow to you, your greatness.

 

[Elusive Truth]

You don't think that ISIS members believe in God? Who are they shouting is great?

No, ISIS members do not know God, so how could they believe in God?

 

[Elusive Truth]

So you are the absolute supreme authority on objective declarations of who knows god and who doesn't?

I bow to you, your greatness.

No... Law is my authority, I judge blindly.

 

[gsa]

No, ISIS members do not know God, so how could they believe in God?

I see. No true Scotsman...