Is Israel a Jewish State?

[IndigoChild5559]

Isn’t there a well known saying about two wrongs?

All I see is wrongs in every direction…

You totally missed the point. Everyone is screaming about the 40,000 deaths in Gaza (which by the way rightly include a LOT of Hamas, not just civilians) but the death rate of civilians in Ukraine are 20x more.

The death of even one innocent person breaks my heart. But let's not kid ourselves. More deaths means more horrible.

 

[GoodAttention]

It's sacred building before Israel.

I watch some extreme jews harassment to christians in jerusalem.

Israel it's enemy of All world, because it's racist zionist regime.


Exactly same opinion , why the world at WW2 didn't accept German Nazi if it was good regime ?

Most of the world accepts Israel, this is fact. We accept Zionism because this is how it is, even if we don’t agree with it.

Muslims want to join rest of world of not?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You totally missed the point. Everyone is screaming about the 40,000 deaths in Gaza (which by the way rightly include a LOT of Hamas, not just civilians) but the death rate of civilians in Ukraine are 20x more.

It seems that your comparing apples and chicken wings. Where did you get the 20x and how is this "rate" defined and determined.

 

[Debater Slayer]

You totally missed the point. Everyone is screaming about the 40,000 deaths in Gaza (which by the way rightly include a LOT of Hamas, not just civilians) but the death rate of civilians in Ukraine are 20x more.

The death of even one innocent person breaks my heart. But let's not kid ourselves. More deaths means more horrible.

You still haven't responded to any of the points I raised in my response to you in post #51 nor justified calling the denunciation of the IDF's mass slaughter of civilians "crying."

I suppose making hasty assumptions and jumping to conclusions are both far easier than backing them up, especially when they are an attempt to dismiss people's concerns about seeing neighbors—whom you claim to love "as yourself" in your user title—killed, maimed, and buried under rubble en masse.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

It is not unnoticed on my end that you labeled my points "crying" in an attempt to dismiss and minimize them, in your title, and I have yet to see you criticize that. Where is it, if you have done so?

I do understand why you might take it that way, as you are correct that people do commonly use "crying" in a mocking sort of way. But that is not how I meant it. I cry over the death of even one person.

My comment is meant SOLELY to point out the hypocrisy of crying for Gaza, but not crying even more for Ukraine. When people do that, it tells me they have an irrational view of Israel and Jews.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I do understand why you might take it that way, as you are correct that people do commonly use "crying" in a mocking sort of way. But that is not how I meant it. I cry over the death of even one person.

Noted. Thanks for clarifying.

My comment is meant SOLELY to point out the hypocrisy of crying for Gaza, but not crying even more for Ukraine. When people do that, it tells me they have an irrational view of Israel and Jews.

There are three things I believe are crucial to point out here:

1) Most people, for better or worse, express more concern the closer a country is to them geographically, personally, or both. I didn't enjoy seeing the blatant double standards when many supporters of Western-led wars of aggression turned around and vehemently decried the Russian invasion of Ukraine under the same mantras and ideals that would have undermined their own bellicose views, but I understand that tribalism and prioritization of the proximate are common elements of human nature.

2) I am, as I said, fully against Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and I have been since the very first day it was launched. I don't have to preface every post on Gaza with my position on the Ukraine war in order to express what I think of the ongoing slaughter of Gazan civilians, just as I don't have to bring up Gaza every time I talk about Ukraine. No one can meet such a criterion, you and me included. I haven't seen you criticize the way the IDF has conducted its bombardment of Gaza even once, but that doesn't invalidate your opposition to the massacring of Ukrainian civilians—even though I believe consistency requires that one oppose the killing of civilians in both cases, not just one.

3) While I know that millions of Jews live in Israel, I don't consider Israel synonymous with Jewry as a whole, nor is my opinion of the Israeli government and its policies synonymous with what I think of the average Israeli, let alone the average Jewish person.

 

[Jedster]

Sure, it is an interesting group of folks.

I met their late Khalifa in 1992 in England. I was a lecturer at the time and had many Muslim students including several Ahmadis.
Also
I was a premie at the time and gave him a framed copy of "Little Drops of Mercy", a satsang GMJ when he was 13. It really impressed and still does(although he doesn't).
Here's the link

Little Drops of Mercy

"And It Is Divine" was an official monthly colour magazine of Divine Light Mission in the early to mid 1970s and was Prem Rawat's major monthly publication during that time in the USA

prem-rawat-bio.org

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Where did you get the 20x and how is this "rate" defined and determined.

Based on the source that said that there has been as many as many as 100,000. Not every source said this. Estimates can vary significantly depending on the methodologies used by different organizations and the availability of accurate information from war zones.

"Ukraine’s war crimes prosecutor did say in February 2023 the total number of Ukrainian civilians killed could be higher than 100,000."

Unmarked graves, violent repression and cultural erasure: the devastating human toll of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine

The erasure of Ukrainian nationhood in occupied territories and frequent denial of Ukraine’s right to exist is evidence the Russian invasion has been genocidal in nature.

theconversation.com

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You still haven't responded to any of the points I raised in my response to you in post #51 nor justified calling the denunciation of the IDF's mass slaughter of civilians "crying."

As I said, the intent of my post was to address **mod edit**, not what you said in your post.

 

[Debater Slayer]

As I said, the intent of my post was to address your [...]

I addressed that tangent in posts #51 and #66.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Most of the world accepts Israel, this is fact. We accept Zionism because this is how it is, even if we don’t agree with it.

Muslims want to join rest of world of not?

No, it does not. Most of the world voted against the illegal occupation of Palestinian land at the UN and is outraged over the Gaza genocide. "Israel" and its allies are rogue pariah states.

Also, you said Jews aren't attacking Christian churches which @Godobeyer showed they are. Nothing to say to that, I see. Typical. Just ignore what's there. Lot of that going on here.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The death of even one innocent person breaks my heart.

Apparently when it's Arabs, it doesn't break your heart enough for you to say it's wrong.

But let's not kid ourselves.

Start with yourself.

 

[Ruh]

Quran approves Israel to be a Jewish state. Let Ishmaelite and Israelite live in peace and harmony there.
Extremist Zionist and Hamas both should perish.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Quran approves Israel to be a Jewish state. Let Ishmaelite and Israelite live in peace and harmony there.

Can't have both.

 

[Ruh]

Can't have both.

We never tried so. We can try...

 

[GoodAttention]

No, it does not. Most of the world voted against the illegal occupation of Palestinian land at the UN and is outraged over the Gaza genocide. "Israel" and its allies are rogue pariah states.

If the G7 are pariah states then sure.

Also, you said Jews aren't attacking Christian churches which @Godobeyer showed they are. Nothing to say to that, I see. Typical. Just ignore what's there. Lot of that going on here.

Did anyone die?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

If the G7 are pariah states then sure.

They are. They don't represent the majority of the world. Hell, Western governments don't even represent their own people. They constantly do the opposite of what polls say we want.

Did anyone die?

Of course:

Israeli airstrike hits Greek Orthodox church in Gaza, killing more than a dozen

Air strikes continued to pound Gaza Friday as the Israeli invasion force sat ready near the Gaza border. On the Egyptian side of that border, aid shipments still await entry to Gaza as the U.N. secretary-general visited the site and pushed for a resolution. Leila Molana-Allen reports.

www.google.com

They also murdered an elderly Christian woman and her daughter in cold blood:

Killing of Nahida and Samar Anton - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Stevicus]

Quran approves Israel to be a Jewish state. Let Ishmaelite and Israelite live in peace and harmony there.
Extremist Zionist and Hamas both should perish.

It would be nice if everyone in the world could just live in peace and harmony. I'm still pretty much a peacenik at heart, but it just seems like such an impossible dream.

Even if everyone believed in the same religion, they'd still find reason to fight. A lot of wars have been Muslims fighting Muslims, Christians fighting Christians. Being of the same religion doesn't mean people won't fight each other if they can find a reason to. A lot of it may come down to greed or pride or a certain lust for power or glory.

I remember Marlon Brando in The Formula utter the line: "Human beings, my friend, are a very complex paradox. Very, very dangerous. They don't wanna' be leaders, they wanna' be followers. I mean, they... they can't wait to find some nut, who they think is just wonderful, to tell them what to do. And they all wanna' be brought under control."

Sound familiar?

 

[Godobeyer]

Most of the world accepts Israel, this is fact. We accept Zionism because this is how it is, even if we don’t agree with it.

Muslims want to join rest of world of not?

You here represent all the world opinion about Israel ?!!

Here in this forum there are many people against Israel crimes.

WW2 in Europe despite they all Christians.
Europeans didn't accept German nazi because German nazi consider them selfs as superior human race same as zionists now !!

Why we Muslims should accept zionist racist regime between us ?

 

[Ruh]

It would be nice if everyone in the world could just live in peace and harmony. I'm still pretty much a peacenik at heart, but it just seems like such an impossible dream.

Even if everyone believed in the same religion, they'd still find reason to fight. A lot of wars have been Muslims fighting Muslims, Christians fighting Christians. Being of the same religion doesn't mean people won't fight each other if they can find a reason to. A lot of it may come down to greed or pride or a certain lust for power or glory.

I remember Marlon Brando in The Formula utter the line: "Human beings, my friend, are a very complex paradox. Very, very dangerous. They don't wanna' be leaders, they wanna' be followers. I mean, they... they can't wait to find some nut, who they think is just wonderful, to tell them what to do. And they all wanna' be brought under control."

Sound familiar?

You sound realistic, can't deny. But the temptation of dreaming should not stop.