Is it difficult to understand theists?

[Revoltingest]

I suspect you never had imaginary friends?
https://www.moms.com/10-benefits-of...10-signs-parents-might-need-to-pay-attention/

Not to claim gods are imaginary but whether or not they are, the benefits would be the same.

No imaginary friends.
But kids know that they're imaginary.
I encouraged mine to make up some.
Oh, the hilarious misadventures they had.

 

[Secret Chief]

I do "see" some taste's though it is called Synaesthesia.

Do you see any other stimuli, not typically sensed by sight?

 

[Secret Chief]

It is like we are talking two different languages.

This is probably key. Two people may use the same terms but have different meanings attached to them. And when such words are embedded in sentences, the overall context can make dictionaries less helpful than one may expect. The g word for a Christian may bear little resemblance in meaning to the g word of a Hindu, for instance,

 

[PureX]

No there would not be because I do not understand spiritual, can't you just tell me what you "see", what image your words about waking Allah from the path within conjure up?

Why are you asking what he "sees" when he has already stated that he does not "see" God?

Also, I think you understand 'spirit' better than you think you do. Let's say you are staying in a hotel, and you decide to walk around the place a little. You come to a large room full of people who are there for a wedding celebration. But even before you know why they're there, you can feel the spirit of joy, mirth, and good humor, etc., in the room. And you can feel yourself getting 'infected" by it. Because that's how we humans are. We tend to take on the spiritual state of those around us. We are a social species, after all.

Recognizing a spiritual state or condition within oneself, or within others, is not some great supernatural mystery or feat. We do it all the time. So it's not that you don't understand human spirit and spirituality. It's that you don't understand it in relation to the idea of God.

 

[firedragon]

I try to understand what someone is saying. I'm very sensitive to cognitivity: there are some theistic claims that I'm just not sure are even saying anything at all, like "God is love." I understand what "God is loving" would mean, because it's saying God has a property. But "God is love" is saying that God is a property, which is somewhat just nonsense. So I do struggle with claims that seem noncognitive at times, and will ask for clarification where possible. I often don't get satisfactory explanation though.

You should try the prosperity gospel.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

In different discussions or debates that has been in RF for some time, it look like some people have difficult in understanding how or why theists believe what they do?

If you have trouble understanding theists, what do you feel is the difficult?
When a theist answer you how he or she have their belief and how they come to their answers in the religious belief, do you take time to listen to what they theist sis trying to tell you? or do you use your own understanding of religion to assume what the theist actually saying is?

(PS: this is no attack at anyone who are not a theist, it hopefully will become a thread that clerify what you struggle to understand)

I think it is more difficult for many theists to understand atheists than the other way around

 

[firedragon]

It is very difficult to understand theists, from my perspective, lets have a conversation,

If I told you I have a unicorn in my paddock, what would you reply?

Since Unicorns are supposed to be mythological animals the Greeks called Atana Khara or as some call it Gabrabha who supposedly lived in Asia it maybe plausible they existed some day. But if the term refers to what you picture as a unicorn that's a bit strange because they may have been smaller if they ever existed. Since it means Wild *** or Wild Donkey. Untamed.

So I would reply saying you will have a lot of friends in the future since you are very very rich in the morrow.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I want evidence before I consider it.

Look around, and observe the intricacies & complexities of living functions.
No mindless & undirected processes of selfish genes would create and maintain the balance we see in bio systems!

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

In different discussions or debates that has been in RF for some time, it look like some people have difficult in understanding how or why theists believe what they do?

If you have trouble understanding theists, what do you feel is the difficult?
When a theist answer you how he or she have their belief and how they come to their answers in the religious belief, do you take time to listen to what they theist sis trying to tell you? or do you use your own understanding of religion to assume what the theist actually saying is?

(PS: this is no attack at anyone who are not a theist, it hopefully will become a thread that clerify what you struggle to understand)

I listen very carefully to everybody I am having a discussion with. I also desire that they return the favour -- and listen to me when it is my turn.

The major problem that I have is that, when we really get down to the basics of religious belief, I am invariably presented with contradictions. And when I point out those contradictions, in general only a couple of things I find are likely to happen: some excuse will be offered up (for which there is no evidence except the contradiction itself), the question of "mystery" will be suggested ("God works in mysterious ways"), or anger that I haven't paid enough attention or that I am deliberately trying not to understand.

To be honest, I even find your comments on unicorns to be strange, because I think you know very well that unicorns do not exist, and have never existed (at least as far as a single shred of evidence has ever found).

 

[Clara Tea]

In different discussions or debates that has been in RF for some time, it look like some people have difficult in understanding how or why theists believe what they do?

If you have trouble understanding theists, what do you feel is the difficult?
When a theist answer you how he or she have their belief and how they come to their answers in the religious belief, do you take time to listen to what they theist sis trying to tell you? or do you use your own understanding of religion to assume what the theist actually saying is?

(PS: this is no attack at anyone who are not a theist, it hopefully will become a thread that clerify what you struggle to understand)

I think that outlook is more important than belief in God. The outlook that we should get along in peace is more important than reading and misinterpreting scriptures. Surely "thou shalt not kill" takes precedence over war, yet we are embroiled in wars around the world.

Your peaceful outlook will win Christian converts. All the threats of burning in the fires of hell have not gained as many converts as the pacifist messages.

 

[Clara Tea]

I listen very carefully to everybody I am having a discussion with. I also desire that they return the favour -- and listen to me when it is my turn.

The major problem that I have is that, when we really get down to the basics of religious belief, I am invariably presented with contradictions. And when I point out those contradictions, in general only a couple of things I find are likely to happen: some excuse will be offered up (for which there is no evidence except the contradiction itself), the question of "mystery" will be suggested ("God works in mysterious ways"), or anger that I haven't paid enough attention or that I am deliberately trying not to understand.

To be honest, I even find your comments on unicorns to be strange, because I think you know very well that unicorns do not exist, and have never existed (at least as far as a single shred of evidence has ever found).

I'll be sure to let my unicorn know.

can I say "he /she is a unicorn"?

Calling someone a "unicorn" is entirely different. It means unique or sexy.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I listen very carefully to everybody I am having a discussion with. I also desire that they return the favour -- and listen to me when it is my turn.

The major problem that I have is that, when we really get down to the basics of religious belief, I am invariably presented with contradictions. And when I point out those contradictions, in general only a couple of things I find are likely to happen: some excuse will be offered up (for which there is no evidence except the contradiction itself), the question of "mystery" will be suggested ("God works in mysterious ways"), or anger that I haven't paid enough attention or that I am deliberately trying not to understand.

To be honest, I even find your comments on unicorns to be strange, because I think you know very well that unicorns do not exist, and have never existed (at least as far as a single shred of evidence has ever found).

If other dimensions exist i would think unicorns could exist there, and some times our dimension and other bleed in to each others, then we may see creature like unicorns, so no i can not rule it out fully.

 

[Clara Tea]

In different discussions or debates that has been in RF for some time, it look like some people have difficult in understanding how or why theists believe what they do?

If you have trouble understanding theists, what do you feel is the difficult?
When a theist answer you how he or she have their belief and how they come to their answers in the religious belief, do you take time to listen to what they theist sis trying to tell you? or do you use your own understanding of religion to assume what the theist actually saying is?

(PS: this is no attack at anyone who are not a theist, it hopefully will become a thread that clerify what you struggle to understand)

Non-theists don't believe in God. So, it isn't terribly important to understand how theists came to their conclusions about God (since God doesn't exist in their opinion).

Theists have a tremendous impact in the world (they rally for candidates, overthrow elections (Gavin Newsome, California.....Gray Davis, California), and they are going state by state, blaming the COVID economy on Democrats, and overthrowing the Democratic election system to pack Congress with their own people. Perhaps that is what scares non-theists?

 

[Clara Tea]

If other dimensions exist i would think unicorns could exist there, and some times our dimension and other bleed in to each others, then we may see creature like unicorns, so no i can not rule it out fully.

Problems arise when some correspond with unicorns while others don't know they are there.

 

[Clara Tea]

You can also start from a non belief, and when you study the texts the belief will arise when you understand more.
Spiritual/religious practice is not done exactly the same for every one, what works for me does not mean the same method of realization will happen for you

And some people think that it is bad to have atheists in a religious forum. If what you say is true, many might be converted.

However, scare tactics (fires of hell) don't seem to work well to convert them (because they've heard it all before).

 

[Clara Tea]

Faith is only the beginning but you have to have faith to start with, it is circular reasoning.

Here is how I understand this,

You have to believe in god or you will never believe in God. It is maddening to be faced with arguments like this.

A movie about the loch Ness monster has an adult insisting that he has to see it to believe it. But a little kid says, no, first you have to believe it, then you can see it.

Perhaps perception is a matter of faith?

 

[Clara Tea]

Let us accept everything you say is true, now explain why I should chose one religion over another without using faith.

Just pick the correct religion, then assume that all others are false. That leads to the next idea, of taking land from the Pagans to support our real God.

Such ideas have been circulating for many centuries...perhaps that is the problem?

 

[Spirit of Light]

And some people think that it is bad to have atheists in a religious forum. If what you say is true, many might be converted.

However, scare tactics (fires of hell) don't seem to work well to convert them (because they've heard it all before).

I used to want to convert people too before, but not anymore

 

[RestlessSoul]

And some people think that it is bad to have atheists in a religious forum. If what you say is true, many might be converted.

However, scare tactics (fires of hell) don't seem to work well to convert them (because they've heard it all before).

I went to a Catholic school, Mass every Sunday, religious parents; I don't remember anyone ever threatening me with the fires of hell. Maybe I was just lucky? The first I really heard about the fires of hell, was coming across some images from Hieronymous Bosch in a book about European history.

 

[Rawshak]

Also, I think you understand 'spirit' better than you think you do. Let's say you are staying in a hotel, and you decide to walk around the place a little. You come to a large room full of people who are there for a wedding celebration. But even before you know why they're there, you can feel the spirit of joy, mirth, and good humor, etc., in the room. And you can feel yourself getting 'infected" by it. Because that's how we humans are. We tend to take on the spiritual state of those around us. We are a social species, after all.

Well I think you are using a different definition of spirit, this one,

the prevailing or typical quality, mood, or attitude of a person, group, or period of time.

So if that is all CT is talking about fine, but I think he is not just talking about the atmosphere.

Recognizing a spiritual state or condition within oneself, or within others, is not some great supernatural mystery or feat. We do it all the time. So it's not that you don't understand human spirit and spirituality. It's that you don't understand it in relation to the idea of God.

Now you have switched from spirit to spiritual and back again.

I think you need to settle on what you are suggesting here,

Spirit the non-physical part of a person which is the seat of emotions and character; the soul.

Spiritual the quality of being concerned with the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.

When you are using two definition of spirt it is confusing your hotel analogy is not related to spirit in the sense of spiritual