Is it "dishonest" to talk nicely to missionaries?

[Sirona]

Hi,

I think that most of us can agree on the fact that it's unethical to play nice with somebody with the intent to make them join an (often controversial) religion (a. k. a love bombing), but is it "dishonest" to talk nicely to a missionary although you don't have any intention to change your religion?

Some JWs showed up at my door and I opened the door because I expected the delivery of a package. I suppose they must have changed their rules on how to talk to residents because they were very friendly. I remember scenes from the past with them rattling off Bible verses like a machine gun to get as many Bible verses out as possible in the short moment before the door is closed again. These two approached me although I had a "pagan" statue in my window as well as my Christmas window lights (because in my region one can keep them up until February 2nd). They gave me a brochure and one of them insisted that I should visit their website because it was so crucially important. When I went back to my flat, I heard them talking on the phone through the window that they had given a brochure to Mrs. So-and-So, and I had the impression that they thought they had done a "great job" (Do they have to report by mobile phone now?) Interestingly, they didn't canvass the other tenants in the house where I live, but went away.

I am familiar with the phenomenon of certain religious groups pressuring members to distribute as many books as possible, and from that point of view I feel sorry for them. But I attended a JW service out of curiosity where I felt 100% uncomfortable and therefore I know that I do not want to convert. However, like some others here, I am interested in religion and from that point of view I find it interesting to talk to them.

So, in your eyes, is it "dishonest" to talk nicely to a missionary who is very likely to assume that you want to convert?

 

[Debater Slayer]

No, it is not dishonest unless one expresses sentiments contrary to how they actually feel (such as by telling someone that you love them when you don't). It is diplomatic and courteous, which are vital skills to have. We can't and shouldn't always express negative feelings in a blunt manner.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

is it "dishonest" to talk nicely to a missionary although you don't have any intention to change your religion?

What is the alternative; talk ugly?
Is there no way to be nicely honest?

When I was little, I recall a conversation between my mother (an atheist) and our neighbour, about how to get some JW circulating in the area at the time, to stop coming to our door. Our neighbour came back with a Bible from her house and said to my mother to show it to JW next time they knocked and to say: “no thank you, we’re Catholic.” Apparently, our neighbour had done this and JW had avoided her front porch ever since.

Ps. I don’t know if my mother took her advice; I cannot recall ever seeing that Bible again.

Humbly,
Hermit

 

[SalixIncendium]

So, in your eyes, is it "dishonest" to talk nicely to a missionary who is very likely to assume that you want to convert?

No. Being nice is neither honest nor dishonest. It's just being nice.

Being fake, on the other hand, is entirely dishonest.

 

[Kenny]

Hi,

I think that most of us can agree on the fact that it's unethical to play nice with somebody with the intent to make them join an (often controversial) religion (a. k. a love bombing), but is it "dishonest" to talk nicely to a missionary although you don't have any intention to change your religion?

Some JWs showed up at my door and I opened the door because I expected the delivery of a package. I suppose they must have changed their rules on how to talk to residents because they were very friendly. I remember scenes from the past with them rattling off Bible verses like a machine gun to get as many Bible verses out as possible in the short moment before the door is closed again. These two approached me although I had a "pagan" statue in my window as well as my Christmas window lights (because in my region one can keep them up until February 2nd). They gave me a brochure and one of them insisted that I should visit their website because it was so crucially important. When I went back to my flat, I heard them talking on the phone through the window that they had given a brochure to Mrs. So-and-So, and I had the impression that they thought they had done a "great job" (Do they have to report by mobile phone now?) Interestingly, they didn't canvass the other tenants in the house where I live, but went away.

I am familiar with the phenomenon of certain religious groups pressuring members to distribute as many books as possible, and from that point of view I feel sorry for them. But I attended a JW service out of curiosity where I felt 100% uncomfortable and therefore I know that I do not want to convert. However, like some others here, I am interested in religion and from that point of view I find it interesting to talk to them.

So, in your eyes, is it "dishonest" to talk nicely to a missionary who is very likely to assume that you want to convert?

One can disagree.... nicely.

Once I said, "Great, let's join hands first and pray before we start discussing the Bible" - they left.

I like post #4 too

 

[Revoltingest]

Dishonesty isn't always bad, eg, lying to someone
trying to scam you. And in social situations like RF,
it's useful to feign civility with posters I find immoral,
ignant, & downright repulsive. It keeps the peace.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Dishonesty isn't always bad, eg, lying to someone
trying to scam you. And in social situations like RF,
it's useful to feign civility with posters I find immoral,
ignant, & downright repulsive. It keeps the peace.

I don't believe you.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't believe you.

Exactly!

 

[exchemist]

Hi,

I think that most of us can agree on the fact that it's unethical to play nice with somebody with the intent to make them join an (often controversial) religion (a. k. a love bombing), but is it "dishonest" to talk nicely to a missionary although you don't have any intention to change your religion?

Some JWs showed up at my door and I opened the door because I expected the delivery of a package. I suppose they must have changed their rules on how to talk to residents because they were very friendly. I remember scenes from the past with them rattling off Bible verses like a machine gun to get as many Bible verses out as possible in the short moment before the door is closed again. These two approached me although I had a "pagan" statue in my window as well as my Christmas window lights (because in my region one can keep them up until February 2nd). They gave me a brochure and one of them insisted that I should visit their website because it was so crucially important. When I went back to my flat, I heard them talking on the phone through the window that they had given a brochure to Mrs. So-and-So, and I had the impression that they thought they had done a "great job" (Do they have to report by mobile phone now?) Interestingly, they didn't canvass the other tenants in the house where I live, but went away.

I am familiar with the phenomenon of certain religious groups pressuring members to distribute as many books as possible, and from that point of view I feel sorry for them. But I attended a JW service out of curiosity where I felt 100% uncomfortable and therefore I know that I do not want to convert. However, like some others here, I am interested in religion and from that point of view I find it interesting to talk to them.

So, in your eyes, is it "dishonest" to talk nicely to a missionary who is very likely to assume that you want to convert?

It's never dishonest to be pleasant to someone, even if you hate their guts.

But realistically, what more can a canvasser expect to achieve than to stimulate some interest? So perhaps they did do as good a job as could be hoped for.

My own approach to JW door-to-door salesmen varies, depending on how busy and how patient or impatient I'm feeling. On the one hand I feel sorry for them, sent out as they are on a near hopeless mission. And they are often quite nice people. On the other hand their religion is dreadful, narrow, anti-intellectual stuff that I have no time for whatever.

I once kept one talking on the doorstep for almost an hour. On other occasions I have been kinder and brushed them off quickly, by saying "I'm afraid I'm a Catholic" - which I find is a very effective showstopper with any kind of evangelist.

 

[Audie]

Hi,

I think that most of us can agree on the fact that it's unethical to play nice with somebody with the intent to make them join an (often controversial) religion (a. k. a love bombing), but is it "dishonest" to talk nicely to a missionary although you don't have any intention to change your religion?

Some JWs showed up at my door and I opened the door because I expected the delivery of a package. I suppose they must have changed their rules on how to talk to residents because they were very friendly. I remember scenes from the past with them rattling off Bible verses like a machine gun to get as many Bible verses out as possible in the short moment before the door is closed again. These two approached me although I had a "pagan" statue in my window as well as my Christmas window lights (because in my region one can keep them up until February 2nd). They gave me a brochure and one of them insisted that I should visit their website because it was so crucially important. When I went back to my flat, I heard them talking on the phone through the window that they had given a brochure to Mrs. So-and-So, and I had the impression that they thought they had done a "great job" (Do they have to report by mobile phone now?) Interestingly, they didn't canvass the other tenants in the house where I live, but went away.

I am familiar with the phenomenon of certain religious groups pressuring members to distribute as many books as possible, and from that point of view I feel sorry for them. But I attended a JW service out of curiosity where I felt 100% uncomfortable and therefore I know that I do not want to convert. However, like some others here, I am interested in religion and from that point of view I find it interesting to talk to them.

So, in your eyes, is it "dishonest" to talk nicely to a missionary who is very likely to assume that you want to convert?

Here peoplecwill talk to missionaries to
practice English.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

So, in your eyes, is it "dishonest" to talk nicely to a missionary who is very likely to assume that you want to convert?

On the contrary, I view it as critical in this situation. The primary purposes of door-to-door proselytizing - whether the missionaries realize it or not - is establishing the "Us vs Them" mentality. It's not about converts, and their churches know this. Their leaders send them out "into the wild", trained to be as overbearing and insufferable as possible. The questions they ask, the times they come to your door, the mere act of questioning another's religion and telling them it's wrong. They know that those they send out will be met with hatred and anger, and that's the point. When they return to the church from their rounds, they bear these negative experiences. And they're met with open arms, understanding, "love" and kindness. They're understood there, they're safe there, they're home.

It is imperative, I believe, to receive these mistaken messengers kindly, to show that their church is wrong about the outside world and is lying to them. Being blunt about it is not effective, as that's why they are sent out in pairs; to protect one another from "temptation" and reason. Kindness and hospitality is the better tactic, and politely refusing their propaganda.

Hail to the giver! | a guest has come;
Where shall the stranger sit?
Swift shall he be who, | with swords shall try
The proof of his might to make

Fire he needs | who with frozen knees
Has come from the cold without;
Food and clothes | must the farer have,
The man from the mountains come.

Water and towels | and welcoming speech
Should he find who comes, to the feast;
If renown he would get, | and again be greeted,
Wisely and well must he act.

~ Hávamál stanzas 2 - 4

 

[PureX]

On the list of objectionable behaviors prosletyzing isn't especially high up. And I find they will leave if asked. So I can't see any reason to be impolite in this instance.

They are a time-suck, however, so I don't engage with them.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Hi,

I think that most of us can agree on the fact that it's unethical to play nice with somebody with the intent to make them join an (often controversial) religion (a. k. a love bombing), but is it "dishonest" to talk nicely to a missionary although you don't have any intention to change your religion?

Some JWs showed up at my door and I opened the door because I expected the delivery of a package. I suppose they must have changed their rules on how to talk to residents because they were very friendly. I remember scenes from the past with them rattling off Bible verses like a machine gun to get as many Bible verses out as possible in the short moment before the door is closed again. These two approached me although I had a "pagan" statue in my window as well as my Christmas window lights (because in my region one can keep them up until February 2nd). They gave me a brochure and one of them insisted that I should visit their website because it was so crucially important. When I went back to my flat, I heard them talking on the phone through the window that they had given a brochure to Mrs. So-and-So, and I had the impression that they thought they had done a "great job" (Do they have to report by mobile phone now?) Interestingly, they didn't canvass the other tenants in the house where I live, but went away.

I am familiar with the phenomenon of certain religious groups pressuring members to distribute as many books as possible, and from that point of view I feel sorry for them. But I attended a JW service out of curiosity where I felt 100% uncomfortable and therefore I know that I do not want to convert. However, like some others here, I am interested in religion and from that point of view I find it interesting to talk to them.

So, in your eyes, is it "dishonest" to talk nicely to a missionary who is very likely to assume that you want to convert?

I wonder if the converse is true.

Is it actually nice to randomly bother people who are likely too busy or engaged in having to endure arguably protracted pitches they have no interest or desire in?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

is it "dishonest" to talk nicely to a missionary although you don't have any intention to change your religion?

I agree with the majority, and wonder why you even thought otherwise. Maybe you meant insincerely rather than nicely.

And I feel no duty to people coming to my door to help them use their time more efficiently by getting them along to the next door where they might find a customer. I enjoy the discussions just like I enjoy them here on RF, where the chances of my converting approach zero.

Some JWs showed up at my door

The last time that happened, something unexpected occurred. They're a very nihilistic and pessimistic people, but I'm not. They began by noting how the world is going to hell in a basket, which I guess they supposed was a given and obvious to everybody. I disagreed and noted that never in history had life been so good for so many. They didn't disagree. They just gave up and moved on. Imagine being rejected by the Jehovah's Witnesses without rejecting them first.

I had a similar experience here on RF with a JW when I gave her that answer (somebody once a prolific creationist poster here, but now not seen in years). She was offended that I could be happy in a world where so many were unhappy. She called me selfish. I assumed that she got that from her elders.

Once I said, "Great, let's join hands first and pray before we start discussing the Bible" - they left.

That's a good way to chase them off, but that's not my purpose.

Here in Mexico, it's common to see "Este Hogar es Catolico" with a picture of the Virgin of Guadalupe (same virgin as the Virgin of Zapopan - they're all Mary) outside a residence to keep the Testigos (Witnesses) away. Even non-Catholics use them. I know some:

We keep an image of the Virgin visible without the sign outside our home. Thieves are less likely to enter.

 

[Quintessence]

Nah, what's dishonest is to say you're going to show up to chat about your religion and then fail to show up. Then show up at another time and apologize, then reschedule the original chat. And fail to show up the second time too.

That's seriously my experience with JW's back when I was living in my apartment. I literally invited them to chat religion and they failed to actually show for the appointment both times. It was kind of hilarious, honestly.

 

[pearl]

I understand they are doing what all Christians are called to do, 'go for forth and spread the good news or Gospel'. But they are looking for converts, normally a 'mission' is directed to those who are non-believers.

 

[Father Heathen]

One can disagree.... nicely.

Once I said, "Great, let's join hands first and pray before we start discussing the Bible" - they left.

I like post #4 too

Wàit. Can JWs not pray with non-JW christians?

 

[Kenny]

Wàit. Can JWs not pray with non-JW christians?

It was "touching" that seemed to be a problem. Don't know why. A contagion?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I politely tell anyone who tries to proselytize to me that, "I'm sorry, I do not believe in God and am not interested in hearing more. Have a nice day."

 

[Alien826]

Two stories, the first second hand (a friend of a friend) and the second me.

This guy had what he described as a foolproof way to discourage missionaries and also have some fun. He would agree with them, but lace his speech with cuss words. "Oh yes, I ****ing love God! God is ****ing great!" He claimed that even though he was agreeing with them, they couldn't take the profanity and would quickly leave.

Some time back, my SO was in hospital and I was struggling to visit her very day and also keep up with household tasks. We have a relative who is a member of the LDS church and apparently she passed the word down. One day one of their bishops knocked on my door and asked if I needed help. I said that my grass need cutting (badly!) and very soon a gang of nice people arrived and cut it. Anyway, they asked if I would be interested in talking to their missionaries, and I thought, "Why not?".

After a while, two nice teenage girls arrived and I listened politely to their sales pitch. (My SO was home by then, they would not have come in if I was alone). Several visits followed, which I enjoyed, though I remained unimpressed by their theology. I found that they were very much following a script and got thrown very easily by some of my questions. Eventually I told them (politely) that they were welcome to keep coming but they should understand that their chances of converting me were somewhere between zero and none. That was their last visit. Quite a long time later they turned up on my doorstep, and asked for glass of water, which I gave them. They refused my invitation to come in for a few minutes. They said they just came to my door because they knew I wouldn't be rude to them.