Is it possible for you to do anything that God did not already know you would do?

[Comicaze247]

You laugh at me for believing in the Bible then you use George Carlin to prove your point............................. oh the irony. Sadly you can officially not be taken seriously now.

*sigh* Seriously, how does somebody's career affect the points they make? The reason he was so successful was because he made such good points. Good comedians (like all artists) make people think, and question.

Btw, I never took you seriously. Your responses just amuse me Especially the fact that you use that to cop-out of responding to the points I brought up. It seems to be a trend with people like you.

 

[JMorris]

haha Wait let me guess your gonna get Gallagher to prove the Big Bang with his mallet!

i understand, ignorance is bliss. thinking might make you sad. and i guess you believe the magician really pulls the rabbit out of the hat. are you actually going to think up anything of your own to disprove anything we say? or are you just gonna keep shurgging it off?

 

[Enoch07]

i understand, ignorance is bliss. thinking might make you sad. and i guess you believe the magician really pulls the rabbit out of the hat. are you actually going to think up anything of your own to disprove anything we say? or are you just gonna keep shurgging it off?

Sorry gonna pass. I have decided you guys are just out looking for giggles. So you'll have to go back to George teaching you his holy gospel. Just so ya know I got ya both on ignore now, so laugh it up.

 

[JMorris]

lol, thats exactly what i thought you'd say. you cant in any way argue your point in a intelligent and logical manner, so you give up. well, if i probably would too. i mean, how can you argue with the logic thats been presented? you cant, so you dont. better put those blinders back on lest you notice the sillyness you believe to be true

 

[Comicaze247]

Sorry gonna pass. I have decided you guys are just out looking for giggles. So you'll have to go back to George teaching you his holy gospel. Just so ya know I got ya both on ignore now, so laugh it up.

ROFL! Will do! *sigh* That was funny

:ignore::ignore::ignore::ignore::ignore::ignore:

LOL

 

[JMorris]

ROFL! Will do! *sigh* That was funny

:ignore::ignore::ignore::ignore::ignore::ignore::ignore:

LOL

what'd you expect? him to actually even ATTEMPT to say ANYTHING remotely logical to prove his point, or disprove yours or mine? now THAT would of been a miracle (specially if what he said made any sense). but can you blame him? he only had two options, rethink his definition of god, and his religion as a whole; or simply ignore it all. and rethinking your beliefe structure would be FAR too traumatic

 

[Comicaze247]

what'd you expect? him to actually even ATTEMPT to say ANYTHING remotely logical to prove his point, or disprove yours or mine? now THAT would of been a miracle (specially if what he said made any sense). but can you blame him? he only had two options, rethink his definition of god, and his religion as a whole; or simply ignore it all. and rethinking your beliefe structure would be FAR too traumatic

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
You can lead someone with reason, but you can't make him think.

 

[JMorris]

I can go all night. I have several thousand years worth of common knowledge (that God is omniscient and free will does exist at same time), a whole entire Bible, and a truck load of common sense to back me up. Your theories are nothing but word games, so I am not worried one bit.

i guess that wasnt meant to be taken literally. i wonder where all that "common knowledge" and "common sense" went? guess god knew you were gonna lose this debate.....so you did. or did you do that on your own free will?

 

[Beaudreaux]

Thats the flaw in your logic. We always have/had more than one course.

Not according to you. I asked you if it is possible to do ANYthing that God did not already know you would do and you said "no". So, how can you have more than one course of action when only one course of action is possible?

 

[Storm]

Not according to you. I asked you if it is possible to do ANYthing that God did not already know you would do and you said "no". So, how can you have more than one course of action when only one course of action is possible?

Becuase knwledge of what course will be taken does not constrain the possibilities.

IOW, our choices determine God's knowledge, not the other way 'round.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Your saying that because God can see the future your fate is predetermined. Who determines that fate?

Enoch, the only thing that matters about that question is that the answer cannot be YOU. When you take an action, as you have admitted, it is impossible for you to do anything other than what God already knows you will do. Who decides upon that action? I would say God did when He made you (if I believed in God...or predestination) but it wouldn't matter much if I was wrong. The only thing we know for sure is that YOU are not the one deciding.

 

[Beaudreaux]

I don't get it. How is a person's choice in any way tied to God's knowledge?

I have two dogs. They love steak. I know them both very well -- not perfectly, but very well. If I leave a couple of big, juicy steaks out in their bowls and walk out of the room, I can be about 99.9999% sure that if I'm away for more than a couple of minutes, those steaks will be gone when I come back. Since there is that .0001% chance that I'll be wrong and the steaks will still be sitting there when I get back, I wouldn't call myself omniscient.

God, on the other hand, knows for sure how I'm going to respond in any given situation. He knows, not because he sees the future per se, but because He knows me perfectly. He is 100% sure of what I'm going to do, not just 99.9999% sure. Either way, how is my dogs' choice to eat the steaks or my choice to return the extra change the clerk gave me at the store controlled by someone else's knowledge of what that choice will be. My dogs' choice to eat the steaks or leave them untouched will be the same whether I can accurately predict it or not. My choice to return the extra change will be the same whether God can accurately predict it or not.

Again, who DOES control it is not the point. Who DOES NOT control it is. And if your actions are foreknown, you cannot be the one controlling them.

 

[Beaudreaux]

well thats different......and makes sense. if god is only predicting what we will do based on his knowledge of us, then free will is possible i think. but the problem was if god knew the future for certain. set in stone, in which case the future couldnt deviate and go a different direction.

Doesn't matter. HOW God knows the future is irrelevant. He still knew every action you would ever take in your life before He created the earth. It is not possible for you to anything other than what he already knows.

 

[Beaudreaux]

God does not make that future come true. Only thing He has done is seen the outcome of the paths you take in life.

You have already conceded the argument, Enoch. Restating your old position over and over is not compelling. As you have admitted, in any given situation, it is impossible for you to do anything God did not already know you would do.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Yes. No. No.


You don't understand what I'm saying...

Safe to say. But I'm trying.

He knows what we will do from our perspective, because He is in the future at the same time seeing us do what from our perspective we have yet to come to...

If God is eternal (not time bound) and we are not, then did God exist BEFORE (a time bound term) us?

 

[Beaudreaux]

Not quite like puppies. But yeah that is the point of life, is to exercise your free will. Some will continue to follow God some will go other ways. Obviously your the "other" type cause you feel like you should bow to no one. If that so, then so be it, its your choice. Free will in action.

So God throws several billion dice and only takes the 5s and 6s?

 

[Beaudreaux]

if god is omniscient, it kinda makes everything pointless. because if he knows you will sin, then you will. and vice versa

DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!!!

 

[Draka]

Not as bad as a non-christian trying to debunk God with logic then when she sees shes wrong she says "I don't believe in your God anyway". Which is what all non-believer eventually resort to. So predictable.

Where did I see I was wrong? Oh, that's right, I didn't. Because...I'm not. You wish I was I'm sure, but too bad so sad. And when did I make such a comment as "I don't believe in your god anyway" as any kind of excuse for anything? I know I used it as a point. A point you still obviously don't get. The fact that I don't believe in your god, the fact I follow another path, says a LOT about your concept of your god. See, you seem to believe that:

1. your god wants everyone to worship him and him alone
2. god created everyone
3. god knows everything I will ever do in my life

Now, what part of this don't you understand? And please be specific and give an actual answer.

IF god knows everything you will do in your life BEFORE you are even born AND god creates you anyway THEN god created you to do EXACTLY everything you do INCLUDING murder, rape, steal, lie, reject him, be homosexual, cheat on your spouse, ANYTHING that could be considered a "sin". THEREFORE your god would be creating people that he KNEW were going to sin and THEREFORE creating them TO SIN. NOW that makes absolutely no sense does it? You don't believe that god would make someone just to sin against him...do you? No? THEN the whole concept of god being omniscient is flawed because that would mean he makes sinners ON PURPOSE. It also means...and follow this PLEASE...if god knows what you are going to do your entire life BEFORE you are born the you are born with a predestined fate designed exclusively for you AND that negates any concept of free will because you cannot CHOOSE to go against what god already has predestined for you. If you truly believe...TRULY BELIEVE that you cannot do anything that god doesn't know you are going to do THEN you have no free will. Since you obviously DO HAVE free will, then...BRACE YOURSELF...your beliefs about what god knows...ARE WRONG.

 

[Enoch07]

Enoch, the only thing that matters about that question is that the answer cannot be YOU. When you take an action, as you have admitted, it is impossible for you to do anything other than what God already knows you will do. Who decides upon that action? I would say God did when He made you (if I believed in God...or predestination) but it wouldn't matter much if I was wrong. The only thing we know for sure is that YOU are not the one deciding.

I have to disagree. God made you. God did not make your decisions for you. Its a word game. Not logic.

 

[Tristesse]

I have to disagree. God made you. God did not make your decisions for you. Its a word game. Not logic.

But if you agree that god knows the actions you will take, than god made you knowing your predetermined actions.