Is it reasonable to believe in a 'loving, merciful' God?

[nPeace]

I chose these two attributes because they are the most championed by the Christians I either know personally or I've conversed with while I was a member of a couple of Christian boards. And whenever these Christians were confronted with the examples I've given in my prior posts or with similar examples, their initial inclination was to blame the devil or blame sin and fallen man.

Furthermore, when these Christians were confronted with Isaiah 45:7, they either ignored this verse or they immediately dismissed it out of hand as an incorrect and mistaken interpretation of the verse. Most of these Christians loved to tell me that God loves me and has a wonderful plan for my life, not knowing that I suffered through a living hell of abuse while I was growing up.

I tried to explain my life of abuse to a pastor once and his response to me was that I'm a cursed soul, God obviously hates me and is punishing me for the sins of my biological parents. Meanwhile, this pastor continuously insisted that God is loving and merciful.

Oh dear. Hearing these experience do hurt.
Religious people have done much harm by hiding or watering down the truth, because of their greed for dishonest gain.
It may be hard for you to believe, considering what false shepherd have done 'in the name of God', but God neither approves of them, nor supports them.
They are frauds... like these... Jeremiah 23:1, 2

 

[rational experiences]

If science a man owning machines would shut his speaking theisms.

Natural only.

Yet he thinks he is a God owning a machine he uses against his family. Not written by lying occult liars in his bible so we named him as a human a man and a satanist.

God is natural first Satanism science gods destruction by burning consuming gods body.

Scientific theist just a human liar.

Pretty basic a liar is a man.

Now did your human mother owning a man baby know how evil you were or would be in thin king?

No.

Maybe if she did maybe she said sex is a sin don't touch me. I should only be a virgin.

She would only learn after you grew up into the liar you are dishonoring natural human life.

Your baby claim I grew up.

In biology out of earths ground what grew up first as direct as the ground dust descendant? Of God?

The holy good tree says the scientific liar.

So brother satanist theist why did a mountain of stone end up looking like a tree?

Actually I tried to anti it and now it is a monument to my satanic science lies.

In life's reality science is a liar.

As water never owned in science history the life tree and biologies oxygenation by plants

Why the theme good tree versus satanic evil tree coal.

How to eradicate biology when coal is a base thesis for invention by humans of electricity.

To invent first. Remember I do not own it first God natural body did.

Seeing pottery clay batteries with wine was a battery used by the ancients to use a powered machine.

As Christ changed water into wine. CH gases in science out of earths ground body was never discussing heavens which is one holy mass only.

One meant one no separation.

 

[MyM]

Facts, objectivity, and a reasoned response. Citing dogmas that not only have no factual basis, but are often contrary to facts, does not resonate with the intellectual capacity of the average human.

Anyone can say "I believe X" and walk away. Who cares what a person believes. We want to know WHY a person believes X. How did they end up with that belief versus some other belief Y, or belief Z, or an objective and factual conclusion?


We don't see reasons. A person saying "God demands it" is not a reason, that is part of the dogma. We are asking why do you as an individual with some intellectual capacity has decided X is true at all. We do see some theists who have never asked themselves why they believe what they do, they are just trapped in a cycle of belief where there is no stepping aside and examining it.


Why is what you posted rational? Be sure to use facts. When I say facts, I don't mean quoting Bible texts (besides, which version of Bible is it, and why that one?). I mean if you quote a Bible text explain why your interpretation is objectively true and consistent with what we observe of reality.

Just because you fail to understand the concept of God isn't our fault. Look around you. Look at your own body. It's upon you to ponder and it's not the fault of others that you cannot grasp it? See, I don't think you read mine at all.

 

[MyM]

I've yet to meet one theist (Christian, Muslim, Baha'i) who will blame God for the fallen condition of the world. Devout theists will blame fallen man or Satan, but they absolutely refuse to blame God. They will blame the creation (mankind or Satan), but they refuse to blame the creator (God). They won't blame the all-powerful, all-knowing God, who has the power to stop the suffering. Devout theists will either ignore or dismiss Isaiah 45:7 where God admits that he creates disasters, calamity, makes trouble, and brings bad times.

See, it's not upon "us" to speak for God's punishments or rewards. You do it, you pay for it good or bad you will get what God has said will happen. Mankind has sooo much taken upon himself that they are so worthy of everything in this life. Who are they to decide that? If they don't believe in God, let them keep on suffering. Those who do believe in God, need to keep having the fear of God and do righteous and God is the most merciful and the most forgiving. One doesn't have to be so ungrateful to the one who created them. God knows more than man and men need to start understanding that or pay the consequences later on.

God isn't just loving which the preachers and teachers of Christianity say. He has his wrath and it will be shown. But in Islam-the last message to mankind, his mercy supersedes his wrath-for those whom He sees fit he can do how he pleases.

 

[MyM]

So, if you were God would you create a world where little children were born with genetic defects, and suffered painful illnesses and often die?

I'm asking YOU what YOU would do. I'm not asking you to try to come up with an answer to defend Baha'i beliefs. Would YOU create a world where children suffer and die? Would that be your choice? If so, explain your intention and purpose to put children through that pain.

God is God. You cannot blame God. He knows the reasons behind His creations more than man do. You don't know why, many cannot answer why because we are not to question God. There could be underlying conditions that you have no inkling about or could be something so drastic you don't know what is the cause. But God knows more than you and to keep blaming God is wrong. Children are a blessing. Think of it, if pain is there, they are the ones that will be with God and he knows well beyond our capabilities of understanding.

 

[Trailblazer]

But God knows more than you

That is what atheists do not understand.

They say that God is all-powerful so God can do anything, which really means that God should do what they think God should do. They love to say that God is all-powerful but they never mention that God is all-knowing, which means God knows more than they could ever know regarding what He should do.

 

[rational experiences]

You do realise consciousness exist confused.

Cause effect sciences fallout UFO irradiation.

Reasoned. My brother told me.

Said earths sun attack ended in mass water evaporation then volcano arose by flood of earth changed.

Erupted.

UFO was vacuum voided by pressure changed cooling water removal off ground.

Your study volcanic earth gas release not UFO.

Earths vacuum voided removed it so pressure sucked out the lightened metal.

Putting it back into space ownership equals earths mass own pressure now owned by space not man and not science.

Science only holds it longer in earths heavens so some of it falls out.

Try keeping it as a fixed constant is the burnt to death warning.

As trees burnt bush carbon burnt into invented coal.

Your inventive answer is I will create it's by causes lying scientist.

From God O one earths answers as man's science.

Whilst he cons cosmic science.

Father is God by mans own first memory the non scientist. Non theist.

A spiritual man.

Keep telling you no man is God liars.

 

[MyM]

That is what atheists do not understand.

They say that God is all-powerful so God can do anything, which really means that God should do what they think God should do. They love to say that God is all-powerful but they never mention that God is all-knowing, which means God knows more than they could ever know regarding what He should do.

It is so obvious that there is a Creator. The signs and wonders are enough for them to put it together. Shayton has them by the jugular and is runnin through them.

“We will show them Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to them that this (the Quran) is the truth” Fussilat 41:53

Through 1400 years now Allah has been showing them signs and for those with understanding, are the ones that will succeed. He will continue to show signs, the minor signs and the major signs before the Day of Judgement. Will they not believe...sighs it's upon themselves to believe.

 

[MyM]

You do realise consciousness exist confused.

Cause effect sciences fallout UFO irradiation.

Reasoned. My brother told me.

Said earths sun attack ended in mass water evaporation then volcano arose by flood of earth changed.

Erupted.

UFO was vacuum voided by pressure changed cooling water removal off ground.

Your study volcanic earth gas release not UFO.

Earths vacuum voided removed it so pressure sucked out the lightened metal.

Putting it back into space ownership equals earths mass own pressure now owned by space not man and not science.

Science only holds it longer in earths heavens so some of it falls out.

Try keeping it as a fixed constant is the burnt to death warning.

As trees burnt bush carbon burnt into invented coal.

Your inventive answer is I will create it's by causes lying scientist.

From God O one earths answers as man's science.

Whilst he cons cosmic science.

Father is God by mans own first memory the non scientist. Non theist.

A spiritual man.

Keep telling you no man is God liars.

lol can you make some sense ...

 

[rational experiences]

That is what atheists do not understand.

They say that God is all-powerful so God can do anything, which really means that God should do what they think God should do. They love to say that God is all-powerful but they never mention that God is all-knowing, which means God knows more than they could ever know regarding what He should do.

If father knew your baby man's life by a future he said he wouldn't have had sex. As he did not invent God earth science.

 

[MyM]

If father knew your baby man's life by a future he said he wouldn't have had sex. As he did not invent God earth science.

what are you saying?

 

[rational experiences]

lol can you make some sense ...

The sun satanist brother owned is owner beginning radiation by mass.

It attacked by blasting earth. IT was voided by space. Proof is the word I wrote and I don't know why Norwood came into my text word use. Wait a minute it was when I was getting irradiated. Must have been followed around was what I thought at that moment.

As stars from the sun blasting cooled voided. Stars proof the space vacuum sucked it back out itself.

As earth flooded it sealed the ufo in until ground bared. Then by water pressure changed is the AI scientific descriptive memory.

The stories I have already told.

You lied as a machine theist.

Your machine ownership itself pretends it is a UFO that earth released in transit of mass in change. As a machine theism by earth God strings Alchemy.

Yet you built it yourself.

You always said the alien was the designer. The alien manifested by man the machine designer himself

Anti man cause in image.

The sun radiation just forms metal balls. O space pressure.

 

[rational experiences]

what are you saying?

Father a human first as first adult did not had not invented humans science. Baby man did. You lie.

 

[MyM]

Father a human first as first adult did not had not invented humans science. Baby man did. You lie.

you still are not making any sense lol

 

[loverofhumanity]

The premise of my thread is to debate the questions posted below, and my debate thread is open for anyone to answer, Christian or non-Christian alike. Answer yes or no to the questions, and then substantiate your answer. Christians should note that quoting scriptures isn't a convincing argument, because the bible has ample examples of God either directly killing people and ordering the Israelites to wipe out entire nations, including killing women, children, and infants (1 Samuel 15:3). For instance, God commanded the Israelites to wipe the Amalikites off the face of the earth (Exodus 17:8–13; 1 Samuel 15:2; Deuteronomy 25:17).

First question: Why would a loving, merciful God create evil (Isaiah 45:7)?

Second Question (Part 1, 2, and 3): Is it reasonable to believe in a 'loving, merciful' God in light of the Holocaust and in light of every other inhumane atrocity and tragedy in human history? What about the rampant rate of murder, sexual assault, abuse, starvation, and deadly diseases and viruses? Are all of these examples that I provided compatible with the belief in a loving, merciful God?

Please take all of these examples into consideration while deciding how you will answer the questions. Please be civil in your replies, and absolutely no name-calling or disparaging remarks about the people who believe differently than you.

I look forward to the replies. Thank you, in advance, for answering the questions.

Sgt. Pepper

My personal story. Before I found God I used to binge drink and then I got depressed and attempted suicide 6 times. But when I found out about Baha’u’llah, my life changed entirely. I became hopeful for humanity and got married to a Baha’i from another race and culture and we have been married for 43 years. I then studied at University, as Baha’u’llah teaches education is very important and am now a qualified counsellor.


By following the teachings of Baha’u’llah, my life became stable and I found inner peace and contentment. So for me, by listening to and choosing to follow Baha’u’llah’s Counsels, my life became enriched and happy. The benefits we get depend upon sincerely making an effort to follow God’s guidance.

I found that by doing so it was in my own best interests.

 

[F1fan]

God is God.

Which God is God?

You cannot blame God.

I can blame God if believers present God in such a way that it is accountable for what exists, and in doing its duties is immoral despite having moral rules.

He knows the reasons behind His creations more than man do.

How do you know? Do you have facts? Or just your dogma?

You don't know why, many cannot answer why because we are not to question God.

Who says? Religious leadership who act as middlemen to this God?

There could be underlying conditions that you have no inkling about or could be something so drastic you don't know what is the cause.

There is no evidence for this, so it's not an issue.

But God knows more than you and to keep blaming God is wrong.

Demonstrate this God exists outside of your imagination.

Children are a blessing.

Which makes it really painful when they suffer and die from diseases that are caused by the world God created. God must be to blame since it is God.

Think of it, if pain is there, they are the ones that will be with God and he knows well beyond our capabilities of understanding.

So we have to deal with the pain yet have no understanding why. That is cruel.

 

[1213]

... note that quoting scriptures isn't a convincing argument,... ...would a loving, merciful God create evil (Isaiah 45:7)?...

Why do you use Bible quote, if it is not convincing?

Second Question (Part 1, 2, and 3): Is it reasonable to believe in a 'loving, merciful' God in light of the Holocaust and in light of every other inhumane atrocity and tragedy in human history? What about the rampant rate of murder, sexual assault, abuse, starvation, and deadly diseases and viruses? Are all of these examples that I provided compatible with the belief in a loving, merciful God?...

I think it is reasonable to believe in loving and merciful God, because if He would not be that, why would we be alive anymore?

I don’t think loving and merciful means God then must accept anything, or allow evil people to live eternally.

I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Yahweh, who does all these things.
Isaiah 45:7

To understand that correctly, I think it is necessary to understand what is darkness. It is like emptiness, it is nothing, that what is left when light doesn’t shine. Darkness is created by moving light away. Similarly, evil is like darkness, it is what is left when good is not around. Evil really is nothing more than lack of good.

In the beginning people wanted to know evil like God knows. that is why they rejected God (good, and light). And that is why God expelled people to this first death, where we can experience what evil truly means.

This “life” is like Matrix in that movie, like virtual reality, where people can experience things through their body, while soul is in safe and can’t be destroyed by anything of this world. Luckily this is only a short lesson and those who become righteous, can go back to life after this.

I think God is loving and merciful. And one reason why I think so is also that He gave us this opportunity, even though this can be a hard lesson.

Still, He has never forsaken people. He has given us rules and promises that would have made this easier, but people have been evil and chosen many atrocities to themselves. I think people have only themselves to blame for all evil. Thank God that He is merciful and doesn’t allow evil people to continue forever.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

{snip} I can blame God if believers present God in such a way that it is accountable for what exists, and in doing its duties is immoral despite having moral rules.

There are theists who seem to be afraid of questioning God, as if they're terrified that he will smite them on the spot. Ordinarily, it's Christians who refuse to blame God for the fallen world we live in, or at least that's been my experience. They're adamant to blame the fallen creation rather than blame the creator, who has infinite knowledge and unlimited power. FWIW, I think we should place the blame where it should go, which is on the creator, with infinite knowledge and power, who knew that his creation would fall to pieces before he began creating anything. He knew humanity would fall into depravity and corruption before he created A&E. The world is God's cosmic mess, because he created the world knowing that it would collapse under the weight of moral corruption.

 

[F1fan]

There are theists who seem to be afraid of questioning God, as if they're terrified that he will smite them on the spot.

Are they afraid of God, or afraid peer pressure? I see many theists of a tribe being very careful to not cross certain lines to express their actual thoughts.

 

[Bree]

The premise of my thread is to debate the questions posted below, and my debate thread is open for anyone to answer, Christian or non-Christian alike. Answer yes or no to the questions, and then substantiate your answer. Christians should note that quoting scriptures isn't a convincing argument, because the bible has ample examples of God either directly killing people and ordering the Israelites to wipe out entire nations, including killing women, children, and infants (1 Samuel 15:3). For instance, God commanded the Israelites to wipe the Amalikites off the face of the earth (Exodus 17:8–13; 1 Samuel 15:2; Deuteronomy 25:17).

First question: Why would a loving, merciful God create evil (Isaiah 45:7)?

Second Question (Part 1, 2, and 3): Is it reasonable to believe in a 'loving, merciful' God in light of the Holocaust and in light of every other inhumane atrocity and tragedy in human history? What about the rampant rate of murder, sexual assault, abuse, starvation, and deadly diseases and viruses? Are all of these examples that I provided compatible with the belief in a loving, merciful God?

Please take all of these examples into consideration while deciding how you will answer the questions. Please be civil in your replies, and absolutely no name-calling or disparaging remarks about the people who believe differently than you.

I look forward to the replies. Thank you, in advance, for answering the questions.

Sgt. Pepper

First just want to point out that you say 'Christians should note that quoting scripture isnt a convincing argument' and then you use a scripture Isaiah 45:7. So, i'll also use scripture in my explanation because a merciful God would not leave us in the dark as to why all these bad things are occuring.

And there is my first point. The fact that the scriptures do explain why mankind is in such a terrible state is evidence that God does care and that he is aware of our plight.

Yes there are a lot of bad things happening in the world. But who is perpetrating all the violence and destruction? Is it not man himself who does these things? Is it reasonable to conclude that because some people hurt others, God must not be merciful?

Consider this senario.
You have 5 young children, you love them all but 1 of your kids decides it likes to bully one of the other kids. Im sure you would discipline your child and you would try to correct the bad behavior. If that childs behavior did not change, what would you do with your child? Would you kick him out of the house and onto the streets, tell him never to come home? Or would you persevere and try to get that child help to change his ways?