Is it true the Kabbha was a Hindu temple?

[K.Venugopal]

you can witness things. there is a level in Islam named Ul'ul ElBab which means 'owner of secrets. but of course one could not get there just like that. first you should wish to reach God, that would be first taqwa and after you make that wish God takes control of your life. you witness how it works and you'd be sure it could only be done by God. please don't ask me my experience. everyone has unique path. that is something between you and your Rab. if you did not ask God, then you can't blame anyone for not having an answer. yes, you can ask God personally. an answer like that comes from God, not from weak people like ourselves. so let me know in case you sincerely want to know if Mohammad (PBUH) was his messenger and last of Prophets and i'd give you recipe of one single salaat.

No doubt you've had your experiences and I would respect that. But I just want a simple answer to a simple question. How are Muslims, even those who may 'revert' even as we are speaking, claiming that they have witnessed that Allah is God and Mohammad is his prophet? My question is upon the usage of the word 'witness'. Is it a honest word to use when it is obvious that nobody could have witnessed anything like that?

 

[Surya Deva]

I think what Muslims mean by witnessing 'god' is they have had spiritual experiences(what constitutes one is subjective) with the practice of their religion, thus vindicating for them that their religion is true and Allah is the only god. In the same way a Christian whose had similar experience with the practice of their religion declares Jesus is true and Jesus is the only truth.

When they get some kind of personal validation that their religion is true they draw immature conclusion that it must necessitate that their religion and god is true and every other god is false. A bit like a child saying, "my daddy is better than your daddy" But, what they overlook is that eveybody in every religion is making the same claim. So what makes their claim, religion and god less true?

If one were to look at this rationally one would have to draw the following conclusion that eveybody from every religion is experiencing similar things and something is causing those experiences. It could be said everybody is experiencing god and each religion is giving it a different name. The immature people will cling to the name as god, not realising that the name is nothing more than a symbol and not god itself.

 

[.lava]

No doubt you've had your experiences and I would respect that. But I just want a simple answer to a simple question. How are Muslims, even those who may 'revert' even as we are speaking, claiming that they have witnessed that Allah is God and Mohammad is his prophet? My question is upon the usage of the word 'witness'. Is it a honest word to use when it is obvious that nobody could have witnessed anything like that?

when someone wants to be a Muslim he has to accept Mohammad (PBUH) as last Prophet of Allah. in Arabic, it is called Shahadat (well, i try to give similar sound here)

şahadet

• {N} testimony, testification, attestation

şahadet ,-ti
1. witnessing, witness, testifying, attestation.
2. (a Muslim´s) dying in battle; martyrdom.

a Muslim dying in Jihad for Allah witnesses Allah literally, they see Allah therefor they die with a smile on their faces. in some cases -like joining Islam- it is more like an acceptance but each witnesses Allah in his life and his own way. none of the experiences that make him sure about Allah and Prophets would be literal but would be undeniable and mystic. if not, then he could not have faith in what's unseen. being Shahid is not the only option to witness Allah literally. requires very high level of sainthood though.

in my earlier post i tried to explain one thing. one can ask God if Mohammad (PBUH) was Prophet or not. there is a certain salaat for make requests to Allah. it is possible to see him. he is not lost or he is not just a memory.

.

 

[K.Venugopal]

I think what Muslims mean by witnessing 'god' is they have had spiritual experiences(what constitutes one is subjective) with the practice of their religion, thus vindicating for them that their religion is true and Allah is the only god. In the same way a Christian whose had similar experience with the practice of their religion declares Jesus is true and Jesus is the only truth.

When they get some kind of personal validation that their religion is true they draw immature conclusion that it must necessitate that their religion and god is true and every other god is false. A bit like a child saying, "my daddy is better than your daddy" But, what they overlook is that eveybody in every religion is making the same claim. So what makes their claim, religion and god less true?

If one were to look at this rationally one would have to draw the following conclusion that eveybody from every religion is experiencing similar things and something is causing those experiences. It could be said everybody is experiencing god and each religion is giving it a different name. The immature people will cling to the name as god, not realising that the name is nothing more than a symbol and not god itself.

Masterly insight and supremely put. Indeed, saying one's religion alone is true and all others are false is somewhat an uneducated position, particularly when, in the case of Islam, much history preceded it and much has followed it, most of which have nothing whatsoever to do with Islam.

 

[K.Venugopal]

when someone wants to be a Muslim he has to accept Mohammad (PBUH) as last Prophet of Allah. in Arabic, it is called Shahadat (well, i try to give similar sound here)


şahadet

• {N} testimony, testification, attestation

şahadet ,-ti
1. witnessing, witness, testifying, attestation.
2. (a Muslim´s) dying in battle; martyrdom.

a Muslim dying in Jihad for Allah witnesses Allah literally, they see Allah therefor they die with a smile on their faces. in some cases -like joining Islam- it is more like an acceptance but each witnesses Allah in his life and his own way. none of the experiences that make him sure about Allah and Prophets would be literal but would be undeniable and mystic. if not, then he could not have faith in what's unseen. being Shahid is not the only option to witness Allah literally. requires very high level of sainthood though.

in my earlier post i tried to explain one thing. one can ask God if Mohammad (PBUH) was Prophet or not. there is a certain salaat for make requests to Allah. it is possible to see him. he is not lost or he is not just a memory.

In appears that in explaining the meaning of the word "witness", you have missed the point of "being personally present". You cannot witness on hearsay. True, in the realm of mysticism, there could be methods of witnessing the truth of something just spoken of but as you yourself say, these require "very high level of sainthood". Why then do the masses of Muslims parrot day in and day out that they have witnessed something which obviously is beyond their ken to witness? Using the word witness to mean experience or believe is only a metaphorical usage of the word. Therefore Muslims when declaring that Allah is the only God and Mohammad is his prophet in actuality have no personal knowledge of it and declare on the faith of what is preached to them. Faith is always true because it is a very subjective experience. Being so, one person has faith in Allah, another in his idol of Krishna. It is unfair to rank any faith, much less dismiss any faith as untrue.

 

[Gharib]

In appears that in explaining the meaning of the word "witness", you have missed the point of "being personally present". You cannot witness on hearsay. True, in the realm of mysticism, there could be methods of witnessing the truth of something just spoken of but as you yourself say, these require "very high level of sainthood". Why then do the masses of Muslims parrot day in and day out that they have witnessed something which obviously is beyond their ken to witness? Using the word witness to mean experience or believe is only a metaphorical usage of the word. Therefore Muslims when declaring that Allah is the only God and Mohammad is his prophet in actuality have no personal knowledge of it and declare on the faith of what is preached to them. Faith is always true because it is a very subjective experience. Being so, one person has faith in Allah, another in his idol of Krishna. It is unfair to rank any faith, much less dismiss any faith as untrue.

first of all i do not know if you believe in god but i do and heres something for you.
i do know that god exists from the sorroundings (sorroundings such as life, death, nature etc) and so i do not have to see god eye to eye to say: "i witness that god exists" i understand his existence through his power and so therefore i have witnessed that god exists ( one doesn't need to be a smart freak to see around him and see all the clear arguments from his creator).

 

[nawab]

yes it is pointless to rank any faith but when you tell us God is a monkey, Cow and snake that is your height of faith. We muslims witness the unseen God remmeber we dont witness Allah just like we witness snakes and cows. this is a unseen belief. we dont need to see God to embrace his faith, God has given us intellect we should study his laws to affirm not to physically see him. neither did any one of the Hindus today saw Ram or krishna.

and yet there are so many ignorant people who are muslims following a wrong belief but washing ourselves 5 times and dont even let me start about river Ganga and the hindus. Faiths and religions can be evaluated from thier teachings and their concept of God.

Why isnt Hindusim spreading in the West if your path is right one,

 

[Gharib]

to nawab
thank you for adding more information brother.
nice to have you back

 

[Surya Deva]

Why isnt Hindusim spreading in the West if your path is right one

It is

Have you heard of a decade called the 60's?

 

[Gharib]

It is

Have you heard of a decade called the 60's?

and have you heard of a new millenium called 2000 and beyound, forget the 60's

 

[K.Venugopal]

yes it is pointless to rank any faith but when you tell us God is a monkey, Cow and snake that is your height of faith. We muslims witness the unseen God remmeber we dont witness Allah just like we witness snakes and cows. this is a unseen belief. we dont need to see God to embrace his faith, God has given us intellect we should study his laws to affirm not to physically see him. neither did any one of the Hindus today saw Ram or krishna.

and yet there are so many ignorant people who are muslims following a wrong belief but washing ourselves 5 times and dont even let me start about river Ganga and the hindus. Faiths and religions can be evaluated from thier teachings and their concept of God.

Why isnt Hindusim spreading in the West if your path is right one,

The Hindu sees God in a monkey, cow and everything else. Because what these creatures have is just what we and God(s) have - life. The forms that life takes look different. But all existence is life itself celebrating its glory. This is the highest of spiritual understanding.

Hinduism does not contain itself in a particular pre-ordained doctrine - therefore I would think that wherever there is broadmindedness, Hinduism is flourishing there. It does not bother me that there may not be many Hindus in Europe identity-wise, but so long as Europe or any other place celebrates the pluralism of living, of multi-culturalism, multi-ethnicity and allows the practice of any sort of worship (so long as such practices are not inimical to the health and safety of any one) – in such places a Hindu will be comfortable and would consider its citizens as good as being Hindus.

The Islamic dream of conquering the whole world in the name of Allah is only a dream of demented minds.

 

[.lava]

It is

Have you heard of a decade called the 60's?

yes i've heard. a generation wasted and ruined by drugs and depression.

.

 

[.lava]

In appears that in explaining the meaning of the word "witness", you have missed the point of "being personally present". You cannot witness on hearsay. True, in the realm of mysticism, there could be methods of witnessing the truth of something just spoken of but as you yourself say, these require "very high level of sainthood". Why then do the masses of Muslims parrot day in and day out that they have witnessed something which obviously is beyond their ken to witness? Using the word witness to mean experience or believe is only a metaphorical usage of the word. Therefore Muslims when declaring that Allah is the only God and Mohammad is his prophet in actuality have no personal knowledge of it and declare on the faith of what is preached to them. Faith is always true because it is a very subjective experience. Being so, one person has faith in Allah, another in his idol of Krishna. It is unfair to rank any faith, much less dismiss any faith as untrue.

i think it is OK for people who does not take Qur'an as a source of divine to see it that way. i mean i understand why. if we did not have Qur'an i would completely agree with you. i agree that saying something else without any practice is an empty heart. just like that saying 'La ilahe Illallah' many Muslims say it over and over again but they don't practice so they do not have anything to prove what they are saying. if one says he witness Allah is the only God and Mohammad (PBUH) is Prophet, it is because of Qur'an. if someone choses to become a Muslim it is usually because they read Qur'an and convinced. so they witness. but it is only the beginning. that path ends by seeing Allah. it is a journey to take. as a start you need to be convinced about that. not people who's convinced, Qur'an is there for it.

.

 

[Surya Deva]

and have you heard of a new millenium called 2000 and beyound, forget the 60's

Well what I was getting you to do was some historical appreciation. In the 60's there was a huge explosion of Hinduism in the West, it is called the new-age movement. Since, Hinduism and its traditions are widely recognised in popular culture. The popularity of Yoga speaks volumes itself. More importantly in academic culture Hinduism has made a huge mark. The German Philosophers in particular, a highly intellectual culture, were obsessed with Hinduism.

At the same time there has been a huge decline in the Abrahmic religion. So while Hinduism has been exploding in the West, the Abrahmic religions have been declining. I hate to break it to you but modern society does not consider Abrahmic religions cool, Hinduism and Buddhism are a lot more interesting in the West. I also hate to break it to you but the West considers Islam the worst religion, they see it as an oppressive, backwards and violent religion and look down on it. This is popular opinion in the West.

 

[anders]

Well what I was getting you to do was some historical appreciation. In the 60's there was a huge explosion of Hinduism in the West, it is called the new-age movement.

Anything the yogya movement could be linked to was more of general superstition than of any at all knowledge of any foreign religion or philosophy.

Since, Hinduism and its traditions are widely recognized in popular culture.

Not hereabouts, though.

The popularity of Yoga speaks volumes itself.

Popularity = 0 in Sweden, AFAIK. And your point is?

More importantly in academic culture Hinduism has made a huge mark. The German Philosophers in particular, a highly intellectual culture, were obsessed with Hinduism.

Where??? I’m studying religion at an academic level, and haven’t noticed any such tendencies in Sweden. Please provide links or similar to support your views.

At the same time there has been a huge decline in the Abraham religion. So while Hinduism has been exploding in the West, the Abrahamic religions have been declining. I hate to break it to you but modern society does not consider Abrahamic religions cool, Hinduism and Buddhism are a lot more interesting in the West. I also hate to break it to you but the West considers Islam the worst religion, they see it as an oppressive, backwards and violent religion and look down on it. This is popular opinion in the West.

Any links to verifiable surveys or whatever supporting your assertations would be appreciated, but I won’t hold my breath,

 

[Gharib]

Well what I was getting you to do was some historical appreciation. In the 60's there was a huge explosion of Hinduism in the West, it is called the new-age movement. Since, Hinduism and its traditions are widely recognised in popular culture. The popularity of Yoga speaks volumes itself. At the same time there has been a huge decline in the Abrahmic religion. So while Hinduism has been exploding in the West, the Abrahmic religions have been declining. I hate to break it to you but modern society does not consider Abrahmic religions cool, Hinduism and Buddhism are a lot more interesting in the West. I also hate to break it to you but the West considers Islam the worst religion, they see it as an oppressive, backwards and violent religion and look down on it. This is popular opinion in the West.

i am from europe, the south part mainly. so tell me why don't those countries know about hinduism??? i mean it is so popular, isn't it. and by the way the only reason why the yoga has spread is because people see it as a fitness thing.. i personally don't see it as a religious ritual. and let me rephrase this for you "it is called the new-age movement", it was called the new-age movement. it's dead now. a new age has risen and it is called THE RISE OF ISLAM.
do you consider your religion to be COOL because it has a fitness program in it (yoga for example).
what is the west, which countries does it include? the US????
if islam is consedered an oppressive,backward and violent religion, then why is it moving forwards. tell me this: which is the fastest growing religion in the world.
i'm not asking about the 60's nor the 80's i mean now, today..

 

[zenzero]

Friends,
When one talks of PEACE it does not means there is no violence through killing.
Peace means that the mind is free from all thoughts.
Thoughts itself is violence. Thoughts themselves disturb the Peace, the delicate balance between man and the whole. A mind free of thoughts is only still and only in that state does one is in a merged state with the whole. The whole existence is in that state and so in perfect harmony except us humans because of this very developed mind through which we must merge with the whole and that is the paradox.
The reference above is what Violence am seeing here even on these pages.
Followers of different religions are trying to prove that the religion they follow is superior to the other. This is only a mind play an illusion as this is not religion.
Religion means a way or path that one uses to merge with the whole and that merging unites the individual with the total life force including all the humans.
PEACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Love & rgds

 

[.lava]

Friends,
When one talks of PEACE it does not means there is no violence through killing.

i don't get it what do you mean here?

in certain circumstances, people need to hear some words. being silent at those moments are also violent.

.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Why is it, Eselam, that you turn every thread into a thread in attacking Hinduism? Is it that hard to stay on topic?

 

[Gharib]

Why is it, Eselam, that you turn every thread into a thread in attacking Hinduism? Is it that hard to stay on topic?

hey don, first of all i wish that team of yours loses every game.

look it's not my fault.
you hindu brother started it so i finished it.
have a good look at what he has said, then come here to blame me. ok
in the future have a good read of the pages before the last one.
and what do you mean i'm attacking hinduism, where did you get that idea?

all the best wishes, eselam