Is it wrong to advocate homosexuality as a sin?

[Magic Man]

To my mind this is not to the point, the term nonfunctional may be irrelevant to my question. However, the prime engagement of sex in all species is reproduction (end product) and pleasure- in other words 99 % cases of all offspring happens as a result of sexual engagement. If this holds true then homosexuality is dysfunctional because inasmuch as it happens to be pleasurable it lacks the function of what sexual engagement is all about. The only way i can see homosexuality may not be dysfunctional, is if sexual engagement is define by pleasure full stop.

Why does sex have to only be about reproduction? Do you really think it has no other functions like strengthening a pair bond or simply enhancing life through pleasure?

 

[HouseofIsrael]

If you are so sure that human sexuality is all about reproduction, and you are not just speaking out of ignorance of human sexuality, then how do you explain the estrus cycle in humans? More specifically, please explain how the estrus cycle in humans indicates sex in humans is primarily for reproduction.

No No. i'm into computing technology my friend. I do not like to get things out of realm when it's this complex. I do not speak out of ignorance either, i keep things basic. But i think the estrus cycle in human refers to certain changes in a woman's sexual health...

how does this relate to what i said?

 

[HouseofIsrael]

Why does sex have to only be about reproduction? Do you really think it has no other functions like strengthening a pair bond or simply enhancing life through pleasure?

Of course i do. Sex is not only about reproduction. There is a whole lot more to sex than just reproduction, but i said reproduction is the end product of what sex is all about. People sex for pleasure all their lives, yet when they want to make a baby they plan for it, because it's special and the most important ingredient. This is my point.

 

[darkendless]

No No. i'm into computing technology my friend. I do not like to get things out of realm when it's this complex. I do not speak out of ignorance either, i keep things basic. But i think the estrus cycle in human refers to certain changes in a woman's sexual health...

how does this relate to what i said?

There is your problem right there. You, like many others before you in this thread, ever so conveniently ignore the complexity of sex. It seems a little suspect that Godlies leave complexity to when they're arguing their own scripture, and simplcity for when they're arguing the complexity of science. Strange is it not?

In your opinion, should infertile couples abstain from sex because they're only doing it for pleasure?

I also saw a figure of 99% efficiency rate for pregnancy a while back from you, that is awfully wrong

 

[Magic Man]

Of course i do. Sex is not only about reproduction. There is a whole lot more to sex than just reproduction, but i said reproduction is the end product of what sex is all about. People sex for pleasure all their lives, yet when they want to make a baby they plan for it, because it's special and the most important ingredient. This is my point.

The problem is when you jump to "reproduction is the end product of what sex is all about". That's untrue. The point is that there is more to sex than just reproduction. So, homosexuality is not a dysfunction because they still use sex in almost every way that most other humans use it, for pleasure and for intimacy.

 

[HouseofIsrael]

In your opinion, should infertile couples abstain from sex because they're only doing it for pleasure?

No. I think science should find a way to for them to make babies if they desire to

I also saw a figure of 99% efficiency rate for pregnancy a while back from you, that is awfully wrong

Do you understand me correctly? I quoted 99% of pregnancy is achieved through sexual engagement with the 1% being through other means -please respond to this if this is not accurate, i take it back immediately.

 

[darkendless]

No. I think science should find a way to for them to make babies if they desire to

In all honesty we need more infetile couples to slow down the growth rate of the human population. If not we'll all starve, or go down fighting.

In saying that, anyone with half a brain knows homosexuals will slow down our inevitable demise. Thats not to say that homosexuals do not have children by other means, however, many adopt instead of having their own, a practice we need to see more of (from a completely heartless and solely sustainability viewpoint).

Do you understand me correctly? I quoted 99% of pregnancy is achieved through sexual engagement with the 1% being through other means -please respond to this if this is not accurate, i take it back immediately.

My mistake. I agree with you in that case. Apologies for the misunderstanding.

 

[HouseofIsrael]

On what grounds would you call it a dysfunction, though? It doesn't interfere with living a healthy life.

The fact its engagement cannot produce offspring.

 

[HouseofIsrael]

In all honesty we need more infetile couples to slow down the growth rate of the human population. If not we'll all starve, or go down fighting.

In saying that, anyone with half a brain knows homosexuals will slow down our inevitable demise. Thats not to say that homosexuals do not have children by other means, however, many adopt instead of having their own, a practice we need to see more of (from a completely heartless and solely sustainability viewpoint).

Wow, i wasn't expecting this -i was actually hoping this never surface.

 

[darkendless]

Wow, i wasn't expecting this -i was actually hoping this never surface.

Why? Inconvenient truth that "go forth and multiply" (some page in the bible) will bring about our demise?

The Earth can sustain about 4.5 (max) billion people. There are 6 million at the moment and growing. The extra 1.5 billion mouths to feed will have an impact on our ability to maintain or lazy lifestyles (those of us in the west).

 

[Autodidact]

Well, I wouldn't worry too much about The Knight's moral views. He believes that genocide is moral--if God commands it.

 

[HouseofIsrael]

Why? Inconvenient truth that "go forth and multiply" (some page in the bible) will bring about our demise?

The Earth can sustain about 4.5 (max) billion people. There are 6 million at the moment and growing. The extra 1.5 billion mouths to feed will have an impact on our ability to maintain or lazy lifestyles (those of us in the west).

I get your point. I don't want to get down this road, it's too political and systematic. But I think the earth can sustain 100 billion people if science focus less on bombs and politicians spend less on buying and developing nuclear arms.

 

[keithnurse]

What would be dysfuntional, on this view would not be the sex per se. It would be the erotic attraction for the same sex. That is, a properly functioning human being is attracted to (approximately) mature members of the opposite sex. A dysfunctioning human being may have erotic attraction to other subjects. Thus a heterosexual couple being sexually attracted to each other would still be properly functional despite the fact that their sexual intercourse cannot lead to a baby because of infertility, age, or a missing uterus. On this analysis, homosexual sex is not "wrong" because it cannot procreate but because it's a symptom of an affective dysfunction.

Interesting idea but all you did was declare that "a properly funcitioning human being is attracted to approximately mature members of the opposite sex". Where is your evidence that that is the ONLY proper way for humans to be?

 

[darkendless]

I get your point. I don't want to get down this road, it's too political and systematic. But I think the earth can sustain 100 billion people if science focus less on bombs and politicians spend less on buying and developing nuclear arms.

Impossible.

 

[Sunstone]

No No. i'm into computing technology my friend. I do not like to get things out of realm when it's this complex. I do not speak out of ignorance either, i keep things basic. But i think the estrus cycle in human refers to certain changes in a woman's sexual health...

how does this relate to what i said?

In most mammals, the female signals her fertility. She goes into estrus or "heat". During that time, it is obvious she is fertile. And in most mammals sex only occurs when the female is in heat or estrus.

If sex in humans is primarily for reproduction, then how do you explain the lack of a pronounced estrus phase in human females? In other words, why don't human females go into heat? Again, why don't humans mate only when human females are fertile -- as is the case in most other mammals?

I think you could make a much stronger case that sex is primarily for reproduction in non-humans. But when you try to make a case that sex is primarily for reproduction in humans, you collide with the estrus phase -- or its lack -- in humans.

 

[Storm]

The fact its engagement cannot produce offspring.

Not enough, as has already been explained to you.

 

[Mr Cheese]

In most mammals, the female signals her fertility. She goes into estrus or "heat". During that time, it is obvious she is fertile. And in most mammals sex only occurs when the female is in heat or estrus.

If sex in humans is primarily for reproduction, then how do you explain the lack of a pronounced estrus phase in human females? In other words, why don't human females go into heat? Again, why don't humans mate only when human females are fertile -- as is the case in most other mammals?

I think you could make a much stronger case that sex is primarily for reproduction in non-humans. But when you try to make a case that sex is primarily for reproduction in humans, you collide with the estrus phase -- or its lack -- in humans.

You can also look to the chimps, who are our closest relatives...

One can look at the Bonobo chimps....
who commit such henious sexual acts such as oral sex, face to face sex,

and more

Bonobo males frequently engage in various forms of male-male genital behavior, which is perceived by some scientists as being sexual (frot).[27][28] In one form, two males hang from a tree limb face-to-face while "penis fencing".[29][30] Frot also may occur when two males rub their penises together while in face-to-face position.

Bonobo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[monta]

gay animals are a lie, I lived on a farm and I know for a fact that this is true .....oh wait no the exact opposite of what I just said, cows, dogs, pigs, rabbits all gay, or as my grandad told me like to give each other piggyback rides not sure about cats though I have my suspicions.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The fact its engagement cannot produce offspring.

Engagement in lots of activities cannot produce offspring. Tennis, for example. Is playing tennis immoral?

I think you could make a much stronger case that sex is primarily for reproduction in non-humans. But when you try to make a case that sex is primarily for reproduction in humans, you collide with the estrus phase -- or its lack -- in humans.

Also, along with our lack of estrus/heat, human women lack the external signs of ovulation that many other species have, including other primates. In some species, if a pair of individuals want to reproduce, they can choose to only have sex when the female is fertile, because it's obvious when this occurs. In humans, if a pair wants to reproduce, they have to have sex over a wide range of times and the female is infertile for most of that range.

Chimps were mentioned before; things would probably be quite different for humans if the genitals of a woman swelled during ovulation like a female chimp's do.

 

[Enlighten]

gay animals are a lie, I lived on a farm and I know for a fact that this is true .....oh wait no the exact opposite of what I just said, cows, dogs, pigs, rabbits all gay, or as my grandad told me like to give each other piggyback rides not sure about cats though I have my suspicions.

I can confirm cats too :cover: when my two were younger I walked in just as one tried to get a piggy back ride from the other.