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Is it wrong to advocate homosexuality as a sin?

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Christianity has been so thoroughly reformed, and that in my lifetime, that you can no longer even recognize the religious arguments in favor of racism and segregation as religious arguments. A couple of generations ago, nobody had such difficulty, even if they disagreed with the religious arguments.

Your views of Christianity are so warped and twisted, I do not even know what to make of them. Was you raised/abused by a white supremacist group member? The stuff you repeatedly post is pretty far out there.

Nobody said that Christianity was responsible for all racism, and I specifically said that there have been Christian clergy on both sides of all these issues. Your great-grandchildren, if they are Christians, will no doubt claim teaching that homosexuality is a sin is un-Christian, and will point to clergy like Sojourner as evidence that there had never been any religious basis for homophobia. In fact, if history is any indication, they will likely claim that Christians led the way in liberating gay people.

How is sin un-Christian? Everyone sins, you, me, all the posters here, everyone. Just because you sin does not make anyone lesser of a person or less of a Christian for that matter.

I grew up hearing that the mark of Cain was black skin, and also that the curse of Ham fell on all his descendants -- who include Africans, according to the Bible. Those were the two main ones, though there were many others.

Has to be out of a white supremacist bible. Nothing like that appears in mine.
 

Smoke

Done here.
Your views of Christianity are so warped and twisted, I do not even know what to make of them.
That's because you prefer to remain blissfully unaware of the history of your own religion. The current Christian crusade against LGBT people is just a variation on a hundred other crusades over the centuries, some of which occurred in the United States in my lifetime.

Was you raised/abused by a white supremacist group member? The stuff you repeatedly post is pretty far out there.
No. I grew up in the South and the Midwest and I heard racist remarks everywhere I went, including from many of my relatives, but not from my parents. The N-word was ubiquitous then, but we were strictly forbidden to use it.

How is sin un-Christian? Everyone sins, you, me, all the posters here, everyone. Just because you sin does not make anyone lesser of a person or less of a Christian for that matter.
But nobody tells you that it's a sin to be who you are.

I think with time the majority of Christians will move beyond their narrow bigotry against gay people. They will look back at present-day Christian attitudes toward gay people much as present-day Christians look back at earlier Christian attitudes about persecuting heretics or enslaving Africans.

Has to be out of a white supremacist bible. Nothing like that appears in mine.
As I said, when believers look into the Bible, they see what they want to see. There's nothing in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah about God condemning homosexuality, but you'd be hard-pressed to convince most Christians of that. There's nothing in Jude about homosexuality, either, but millions of Christians are absolutely convinced there is. They have no more grounds for their beliefs than Southern white Christians of 150 years ago, who insisted that African slavery was clearly taught in the Bible.
And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. And he said, Cursed be Canaan [Ham's son]; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. ...

The sons of Ham: Cush, Egypt, Put, and Canaan.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
That's because you prefer to remain blissfully unaware of the history of your own religion. The current Christian crusade against LGBT people is just a variation on a hundred other crusades over the centuries, some of which occurred in the United States in my lifetime.

Crusade is a bit of an exaggeration but whatever.

No. I grew up in the South and the Midwest and I heard racist remarks everywhere I went, including from many of my relatives, but not from my parents. The N-word was ubiquitous then, but we were strictly forbidden to use it.

Same here raised in the south. I would get slapped if I ever said the N-word.

But nobody tells you that it's a sin to be who you are.

No one has to tell me. I know and accept the fact that I have sinned and am going to sin again. I deal with it and try to progress forward.
And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. And he said, Cursed be Canaan [Ham's son]; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. ...

The sons of Ham: Cush, Egypt, Put, and Canaan.
Dunno how racist think that a black child came from the incestuous affair (well not an affair, Ham raped his mother while she was drunk) Ham had with his mother. But then when does anything they do or say make sense. :shrug:
 
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sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
It's hilarious that most homophobic religious folks that outrightly speak out and act out against homosexuality oppose the same amendment that allows for them to actively believe in their religions in the first place.
People with an overblown sense of entitlement ("We're the elect!") love double standards.:rolleyes:
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Originally, there was no such cult as Christianity. The first followers of Jesus of Nazareth or Yeshua ben Pacheria did not deify Jesus. They regarded him as a great prophet, teacher, or possibly a political messiah. They were called Nazerites, Ebionites, and a variety of other names because they clearly regarded Jesus /Yeshua as fully human and not a deity. The gospels clearly distinguish between Jesus and God.

According to the gospels, Jesus believed he was "sent" by God. He believed he was doing "God's" work. He believed his message was that of God not his (Jesus') message. Jesus believed that he was not GOOD, only God was GOOD. Paul talked about God AND (beside HIM) the Lord Jesus. A Lord was not necessarily a God. Lords were officials subordinate to Kings.

If we throw out the fake gospel, Revelation, the real Bible shows that Jesus was human, and God was God (and never the twain may meet). They were separate individuals. Christians did not occur until the Pagan Romans who followed Jesus, performed apotheosis (deification) of Jesus into a god. Initially the newly deified god was endorsed by Paul and taught in more detail by Bishop Arius. This gave the name of the first Christians as Arians. There was a hierarchy of God, Jesus the lesser god, and the Holy Spirit a messenger god (derived from the Zoroastrian Spenta Maingu, the Farsi name of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not a Jewish belief.

All of this had nothing to do with the real Jesus who would have condemned it as blasphemy and idolatry. Arianism was the vast majority of Christians in the 2nd and 3rd Centuries. In the late 3rd and early 4th century a new heresy developed by Tertullian (who invented the Trinity) and Athanasius who formulated the complex but irrational concept of the Holy Trinity. It was clearly a false religion if viewed from the mind of Jesus.

While most Roman Christians were still Arian Christians, the mother (St. Helena) of Flavius Valerius Constantinus (Emperor Constantine) called a synod at Nicaea for all bishops. His troops surrounded and entered the building. They made it clear that Constantine wanted the majority Arian Christianity declared Heretical while legalising Trinitarian Christianity, the newest and most distant from Jesus of Nazareth, the official Roman approved Christianity.

Following this, Roman imperial troops began a massive persecution of Arian Christians, the true Jesus followers, the Mandaeans, Maronites, and others. TThey were nearly exterminated. The Arian Christians only survived for a few centuries in the Teutonic nations north of the Roman Empire (Franks, Alemanni, Saxons, Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Asding Vandals, Siling Vandals (Suevi), Marcomani, Gepids, Lombards, Burgundians, and some of the Slavs of the western Balkans.

After elimination of rival and more legitimate Christian groups, Emperor Theodosius I turned the power of government on extermination of Pagans who tried to be quite and survive. Theodosius I had his crony Bishop St. Cyril send fanatical homicidal monks to ravage the Great Library of Alexandria. Why? The Great Library contained Greek science describing a global shaped Earth, a very old Earth, a heliocentric solar system, matter being composed of tiny invisible particles called ATOMS. All of those truths were condemned as Heresy because Trinitarians accepted a flat Earth at the centre of the universe only 4000 years old, and stars being merely little lanterns in a crystal sphere a few hundred metres above the Earth. Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake by Trinitarians because he proposed stars were distant suns with thousands of other worlds.

We must accept the fact that Orthodox Catholic Protestant Trinitarian Christianity is false and dogmatically irrational. I fail to understand how seemingly non-comatose people can believe in it.

[Christian quote] Then there was the English translation, which there is not a single book that has been translated that is 100% accurate. Then after the translators and dogmatists began deciding what books to include in the Bible, and which ones to omit the official Bible was published.
.

English is a mongrel language that did not exist until the 15th Century. It is a mix of Saxon, Danish, Cymric (real Briton), Norman French, and some Norse influences. It was idiotic to use such a base language to translate a bible. It should have been preserved in Latin, Greek, and Old Slavonic. However, even those translations were selected from many tens of gospels rejected by the Trinity Church. Yet they screwed it up. The Trinitarians published the four gospels that clearly show that Jesus was not god and never thought he was God. "Father remove this cup from my hand.” God why hast though forsaken me." Jesus was a human being, a very great and wise human being, whose teachings were discarded by the Catholic Church (Protestant and Orthodox) while all emphasis was directed at the apotheosis of human Jesus into a NEW GOD.

[Christian quote]Today even, all you have to do is go to a Bible store and see just how many versions of the Bible there are to realize that Christianity does indeed change.[/quote]

In addition, all of it is a chaotic Pagan Cult using Jesus as a New God in an Egyptian like Trinity. Christianity is PAGAN.

[Christian quote] Another difference, the Catholic Bible has the Sola Scriptura, but lacks Deuteronomy, which is a book that the church I last went to frequently turned to.[/quote]

Those are trivial and meaningless changes. The most corrupting change in the Catholic Bible was the deliberate deification (apotheosis) of the Human Jesus so that the teachings and wisdom of Jesus could be ignored and forgotten. Jesus' teachings threatened the power of the political authorities in ancient Rome. Rome had to stop him. It did so not by the crucifixion but by deifying him so it could make his words meaningless.

Amhairghine[/quote]
Fantasy propagated by misinformation.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
[devis = ombre Wolf] Christianisme a en effet changé. Au début, il était droit sermons ont été menées en Latin, et vous donner de l'église vos économies de toute vie juste à regarder, ou même propre si vous a été très riche, un patrimoine présumée d'être enregistré.

À l'origine, il y n'avait aucune telle culte comme le christianisme. Les premiers disciples de Jésus de Nazareth ou Yeshua ben Pacheria n'ont pas deify de Jésus. Ils ont considéré lui un grand prophète, enseignant ou éventuellement un Messie politique. Ils ont été appelées Nazerites, Ébionisme et une variété d'autres noms parce qu'ils clairement considéré /Yeshua Jésus comme pleinement humain et non une déité. Les évangiles distinguer clairement de Jésus et de Dieu.

Selon les évangiles, Jésus a estimé qu'il a été "envoyé" par Dieu. Il croyait qu'il faisait travail "De Dieu". Il croyait que son message est celle du messages des Dieu pas son (Jésus). Jésus a estimé qu'il n'était pas bon, seul Dieu était bonne. Paul parlé Dieu et (à côté A) le Seigneur Jésus. Un Seigneur n'était pas nécessairement un Dieu. Seigneurs étaient subordonnés aux rois de fonctionnaires.

Si nous jeter de l'Évangile factice, révélation, la véritable Bible montre que Jésus était humain et Dieu était Dieu (et jamais le twain peut répondre). Ils étaient des personnes séparées. Chrétiens ne se produit pas jusqu'à ce que les Romains Pagan qui ont suivi Jésus, effectué apothéose (deification) de Jésus en un Dieu. Au départ le Dieu nouvellement deified a été approuvé par Paul et enseigné plus en détail par Mgr ARIUS. Cela a donné le nom des premiers chrétiens comme Ariens. Il y avait une hiérarchie de Dieu, Jésus le moindre Dieu et de l'esprit Saint un Dieu de messager (dérivé de la zoroastrien Spenta Maingu, le Farsi nom de l'esprit Saint. L'esprit Saint n'est pas une croyance juive.

Tout cela n'avait à voir avec la véritable Jésus qui serait ont condamné comme blasphème et l'idolâtrie rien. L'Arianisme était la grande majorité des chrétiens dans les 2e et 3e siècles. À la fin 3e et au début du 4e siècle mis au point une hérésie nouvelle par Tertullien (qui a inventé la Trinité) et Athanase qui a formulé le concept complexe mais irrationnel de la Sainte Trinité. Il était clairement une fausse religion si vu de l'esprit de Jésus.

Alors que la plupart des chrétiens roman étaient encore Arian chrétiens, la mère (Sainte-Hélène) de Flavius Valerius Constantinus (empereur Constantin) appelée un synode à Nicée pour tous les évêques. Ses troupes entourent et entrée du bâtiment. Ils a précisé que Constantin voulait que la majorité christianisme Arian déclaré Heretical lors de la légalisation christianisme trinitaire, la plus récente et plus éloignée de Jésus de Nazareth, le roman officiel approuvé christianisme.

Suite à cela, troupes impériales romaines a commencé une persécution massive des chrétiens Arian, les vraies disciples de Jésus, le Mandaeans, Maronites et d'autres. TThey ont été exterminées près. Les chrétiens Arian seulement survécu pendant quelques siècles dans les nations teutoniques au nord de l'Empire romain (francs, Alemanni, Saxons, Ostrogoths, Wisigoths, Vandales Asding, Siling Vandales (Suevi), Marcomani, Gépides, Lombard, Burgondes et certains des slaves des Balkans occidentaux.

Après que l'élimination de rival et plus légitime groupes chrétiens, empereur Théodose j'allumé le pouvoir du gouvernement extermination des païens qui ont essayé d'être tout à fait et de survivre. Théodose, j'ai eu son sauvage Bishop St. Cyril envoyer fanatiques moines meurtrier de ravage la grande bibliothèque d'Alexandrie. Pourquoi ? La grande bibliothèque contenait science grecque décrivant une terre mis en forme globale, une très vieille terre, un système solaire héliocentrique, étant composé de minuscules particules invisibles appelées ATOMES d'importance. Tous ces vérités ont été condamnés comme une hérésie car les Trinitaires acceptent une terre plate au centre de l'univers uniquement les 4000 ans et les étoiles étant simplement peu lanternes dans une sphère de cristal de quelques centaines de mètres au-dessus de la terre. Giordano Bruno a été gravé en le jeu par les Trinitaires parce qu'il a proposé étoiles étaient soleils lointains avec des milliers d'autres mondes.

Nous devons accepter le fait qu'orthodoxe catholique Protestant Trinitaire Christianisme est faux et dogmatiquement irrationnel. Je ne comprends pas comment apparemment personnes non comateux peut croire en elle.

[Chrétienne devis] Puis il y avait la traduction anglaise, qui y n'est pas un livre unique qui a été traduit c'est 100 % exactes. Puis après les traducteurs et les dogmatists a commencé à décider ce que des livres à inclure dans la Bible, et celles d'omettre la Bible officielle qui a été publié. [/ cite].

L'anglais est une langue mongrel qui n'existe pas jusqu'au XVe siècle. C'est un mélange de Saxon, danois, Cymric (véritable britannique), Norman français et certaines influences scandinave. C'est idiot d'utiliser un langage de base pour traduire une bible. Il devrait ont été conservé en Latin, grec et Vieux slave. Cependant, même ces traductions ont été sélectionnées de plusieurs dizaines de Évangiles rejetés par l'église Trinity. Pourtant ils vissés. Les Trinitaires publié les quatre Évangiles qui montrent clairement que Jésus n'était pas Dieu et que jamais pensé qu'il était Dieu. « Père supprimer cette tasse de ma main ”. Dieu pourquoi as réprouvé bien que moi. » Jésus était un être humain, un être humain très grand et sage, dont enseignements ont été rejetés par l'Église catholique (protestantes et orthodoxes) pendant tout l'accent a été dirigée contre l'apothéose de Jésus humain dans un nouveau Dieu.

[Chrétienne devis]Aujourd'hui même, tout ce que vous avez à faire est d'aller à un magasin de la Bible et voir seulement combien de versions de la Bible, il n'y est à réaliser que christianisme ne fait effectivement changent. [/ cite] en outre, tout c'est un culte païen chaotique utilisant Jésus comme un nouveau Dieu dans un égyptien comme Trinité. Christianisme est PAÏEN.

[Chrétienne devis] Une autre différence, la Bible catholique a la Scriptura Sola, mais manque Deutéronome, qui est un livre qui l'église je durent se rendit à souvent tourné vers. [/ cite] ce sont ces changements triviales et dénuée de sens. Le changement plus corrupting dans la Bible catholique était la deification délibérée (apothéose) de Jésus humaine afin que les enseignements et la sagesse de Jésus pouvaient être ignorées et oubliés. Les enseignements de Jésus a menacé le pouvoir des autorités politiques dans la Rome antique. Rome devait cesser de lui. Il l'a donc pas par la crucifixion mais par lui deifying donc il pourrait faire ses mots dénuée de sens.

Amhairghine[/quote]
My, my! Aren't we intelligent! Can you speak Greek and Hebrew, as well? Because, if you knew what you were talking about in your previous post, you would know that the subsequent translations do not rely on the earliest English, but on the LXX and other Greek and Hebrew manuscripts as the basis.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
BTW, what does any of your diatribe have to do with the topic, which is the advocacy of homosexuality as sin???
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Your views of Christianity are so warped and twisted, I do not even know what to make of them. Was you raised/abused by a white supremacist group member? The stuff you repeatedly post is pretty far out there.



How is sin un-Christian? Everyone sins, you, me, all the posters here, everyone. Just because you sin does not make anyone lesser of a person or less of a Christian for that matter.



Has to be out of a white supremacist bible. Nothing like that appears in mine.

Did your read my post quoting the KKK groups as advocating a Biblical government?
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Has to be out of a white supremacist bible. Nothing like that appears in mine.
Allthough it is not Biblical, the image of a white Jesus that is so dearly held by many churches is clearly racist. Jesus being from the Middle East certainly wouldn't have been white.
 

shortfade2

Active Member
So, are we now saying that Jesus was gay? Wow. If you take the Bible literally it is. if you dont, It isn't. End of Story.

Oh, and Contentious Maximus, Your signature indeed shows that you are adept at debating, however, If I were the teacher on Abortion I would say, "Is cancer alive? Will it be able to love, cry, and be angry in about 6 months? AND Christians were killed in the Crusades, too. The Crusades were a legal thing under the guise of religious.

PS. I think its funny that so many ppl argue over homosexuality. Not a big deal to me. 138 pgs, whoever started this should be proud! :D
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
I think its funny that so many ppl argue over homosexuality. Not a big deal to me.

It is a "big deal' to all the people who suffer discrimination and inequality on a daily basis because of their homosexuality - and it should be a "big deal" to anyone who has a sense of fairness and justice, as well as empathy and compassion for their fellow human beings. Then again, this obvsiouly doesn't describe everyone.
 

Masourga

Member
Yes. Wrong to call a "sin". What a man can and is able/willing to do is what a man can do. "Right" and "Wrong" are completely relative terms, and homosexuality falls squarely in neither... nor does it need to.

Is it unnatural? Of course it is. Anyone who would disagree with that is out of their minds. It may be naturally occurring, but that only means it occurs in nature (obviously), like many other things that occur to species that do not lead to more and more fruitful members thereof... it certainly does not mean that it is the way things are supposed to be. One only needs to question what would happen to our species if the evolution of our kind was toward homosexuality to see that it would quickly extinguish us from the universe. Therefore, the evolution of our kind will never be toward all of us being homosexual - hence it does not follow nature to be homosexual.

But "wrong" in a moral sense? Of course not. If two parties are willing and able to engage in a thing, then there is nothing "wrong" with their doing so.
 
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