Is it wrong to advocate homosexuality as a sin?

[gnomon]

This would require a fundamental paradigm shift in perspective that very few people would be capable of.

Maybe that's what's going to happen on December 20th, 2012.

Or whatever day it is.

 

[Autodidact]

To have children without providing those children with a father seems rather selfish.

Why is that? To have children that are planned for, wanted, and well cared for is not selfish. What kids need is parenting, not fathering or mothering. What's selfish is having kids without planning for, choosing to, or being prepared.

If one feels bad because of how others view that, how secure can that one be concerning that choice.

That sounds like you.

A bigot is a person who bases his or her opinions on his or her feelings without any regard of research.

Yup. It's clear you've done no research whatsoever, or you'd know that the opposite of what you're saying is true. That's how I know your statements are bigoted; I've read the research.

To imagine that all choices are of equal value is as bigoted and one who feels only his/her choices are valid.

All choices are not of equal value. It's better to only have kids if you plan for and are prepared to take it on. That's why, overall, homosexual parenting is better than heterosexual parenting.

I've never suggested that I know it all or that I have not made dumb mistakes or thought dumb things, but I do not make it a habit of promoting my dumbness at the expense of thousands of years of Biblical history, nor would I intentionally place my desires ahead of the needs of children.

Good. Then clearly, you support same-sex parenting, as the research shows that it's good for children.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Maybe that's what's going to happen on December 20th, 2012.

Or whatever day it is.

I'm pretty sure the world ending on that date is just as, if not more, likely than LittleNipper, and the like, admitting error.

 

[LittleNipper]

Why can't you just admit you're wrong?

And you're right?

 

[Autodidact]

And your right?

Yes, LittleNipper, unlike you, I base my opinions on the research. Research shows that same-sex parents are at least as effective as heterosexual parents.

 

[Mr Cheese]

trying to argue with a fundamentalist is like trying to catch a fart in a hurricane

Its rather smelly, you'll only end up with messed up hair

And you'll never actually see the "end product" of your actions....

 

[gnomon]

And your right?

Actually yes. I'm right because I do not make claim to a moral high road and then turn around and call lesbian parents "uncool" based on faulty reasoning.

 

[LittleNipper]

Maybe that's what's going to happen on December 20th, 2012.

Or whatever day it is.

Oh Please! Not Howard Camping? The guy that believes salvation doesn't depend on one's faith --- only GOD's selection, and yet says that christian's who don't except his date of CHRIST's return are not going to be raptured. Sounds just like work to me!!!!!

 

[averageJOE]

If you have accepted male sperm without being married to that male, that is fornication. It maybe, medically induced. It maybe without you ever seeing that individual; however, the result is the same.

Yes, it do feel that when any woman is inseminated with sperm that isn't her husbands, she is in reality participating in an act of fornication.

I didn't know one could committ fornication without having sex. Tell me, does this "concept" of yours also apply to the Virgin Mary?

Sorry if anyone is offended. They have to come to their own conclusions and it is my hope that a "christian" would apply biblical knowledge and not just merely scientific authoritative jargon. That is not to say that there are not times the husband's sperm is injected into his wife by a doctor. In that case the sperm is that of the husband's and not some stranger with handsome attributes that the couple or a woman covets.

I have nothing against "infertal" couples adopting. That is an entirely different matter ---- but they should be married as husband and wife.

Your not offending anyone, your just displaying your bigotry is all. I challenge you to walk up to a couple who one was infertile and whose child was born with the help of either a sperm donor or surrogate mother and tell them they are selfish, "uncool" parents.

Oh yeah, and shame on you for calling Autodidact a bad parent.

 

[gnomon]

Oh Please! Not Howard Camping? The guy that believes salvation doesn't depend on one's faith --- only GOD's selection, and yet says that christian's who don't except his date of CHRIST's return are not going to be raptured. Sounds just like work to me!!!!!

Who is Howard Camping?

Or what is Howard Camping?

Is that some new internet slang?

 

[LittleNipper]

Yes, LittleNipper, unlike you, I base my opinions on the research. Research shows that same-sex parents are at least as effective as heterosexual parents.

Whose research? What group? Do they have an agenda? Are they out to impress?

 

[Autodidact]

Oh Please! Not Howard Camping? The guy that believes salvation doesn't depend on one's faith --- only GOD's selection, and yet says that christian's who don't except his date of CHRIST's return are not going to be raptured. Sounds just like work to me!!!!!

LittleNipper, you might want to enable your humor detector. Just a suggestion.

 

[Autodidact]

Whose research?

Every reputable social scientist who's researched it.

What group?

No group.

Do they have an agenda?

Just to find out whether same-sex parents are effective.

Are they out to impress?

Probably out to impress with their awesome research skills would be my guess.

Would you like me to post the summaries for you? Or the statements from every national child welfare organization? Not gay organizations, LittleNipper, but child welfare organizations?

 

[LittleNipper]

Actually yes. I'm right because I do not make claim to a moral high road and then turn around and call lesbian parents "uncool" based on faulty reasoning.

Lesbians cannot have children naturally without male sperm. GOD designed children to be the offspring of both a male and female. Because a person is a lesbian doesn''t make them cool. And the same can be applied to my beliefs. But being able to take the heat ------ now, that may mean that one is very cool.

 

[Autodidact]

In case anyone's interested:

“Gay/lesbian adoptive applicants should be assessed the same as any other adoptive applicant. It should be recognized that sexual orientation and the capacity to nurture a child are separate issues. Staff and board training on cultural diversity should include factual information about gays and lesbians as potential adoptive resources for children needing families in order to dispel common myths about gays and lesbians.”
Child Welfare League of America

"Everyone with the potential to successfully parent a child in foster care or adoption is entitled to fair and equal consideration regardless of sexual orientation or differing life style or physical appearance."
National Council on Adoptable Children

"The American Academy of Pediatrics recognizes that a considerable body of professional literature provides evidence that children with parents who are homosexual can have the same advantages and the same expectations for health, adjustment, and development, as can children whose parents are heterosexual."

"Numerous studies have shown that the children of gay parents are as likely to be healthy and well adjusted as children raised in heterosexual households. Children raised in gay or lesbian households do not show any greater incidence of homosexuality or gender identity issues than other children."
American Psychiatric Assocation

"The results of existing research comparing gay and lesbian parents to heterosexual parents and children of gay or lesbian parents to children of heterosexual parents are quite uniform: common stereotypes are not supported by the data... In summary, there is no evidence to suggest that lesbians and gay men are unfit to be parents or that psycho-social development among children of gay men and lesbians is compromised in any respect relevant to that among offspring of heterosexual parents. Not a single study has found children of gay or lesbian parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents. Indeed, the evidence to date suggests that home environments provided by gay and lesbian parents are as likely as those provided by heterosexual parents to support and enable children's psycho-social growth."
American Psychological Association

"Scientific research has consistently found that the sexual orientation of parents is not a predictive factor as to the parenting ability of those parents or the psychological and social development of their children."
National Association of Social Workers

"The abilities of gay and lesbian persons as parents and the positive outcomes for their children are not areas where credible scientific researchers disagree. Statements by the leading associations of experts in this area reflect professional consensus that children raised by lesbian or gay parents do not differ in any important respects from those raised by heterosexual parents. No credible empirical research suggests otherwise."
APA and NASW

The organizations that support same-sex parenting rights and adoption include:

the American Psychiatric Association, the National Association of Social Workers, Child Welfare League of America, the American Bar Association, the North American Council on Adoptable Children, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychoanalytic Association, the American Academy of Family Physicians,[24] in the United Kingdom, the Royal College of Psychiatrists[25], and in Canada, the Canadian Psychological Association.

 

[Autodidact]

Lesbians cannot have children naturally without male sperm.

Really? I had no idea.

GOD designed children to be the offspring of both a male and female.

Well, God or not, reproduction takes one of each. Parenting does not.

Because a person is a lesbian doesn''t make them cool.

And it doesn't make them not cool.
I'm not cool just because I'm a lesbian. I'm just generally cool.

And the same can be applied to my beliefs. But being able to take the heat ------ now, that may mean that one is very cool.

No, it can't. Your beliefs are not cool, period.

 

[Autodidact]

So, LittleNipper, since you assert that a bigot is someone who bases their opinion on the research, I'm sure you can now cite the extensive research that demonstrates that same-sex parents do NOT do as good a job as heterosexual parents?

Before you hit google, let me give you a hint. Research about single heterosexuals is not relevant, don't you agree?

 

[averageJOE]

Lesbians cannot have children naturally without male sperm. GOD designed children to be the offspring of both a male and female. Because a person is a lesbian doesn''t make them cool. And the same can be applied to my beliefs. But being able to take the heat ------ now, that may mean that one is very cool.

Let me ask you again, if God's design was male/female what about Virgin Mary? In your "theory" Jesus was the product of "fornication". No male was involved. Is Mary "uncool"?

 

[gnomon]

Lesbians cannot have children naturally without male sperm. GOD designed children to be the offspring of both a male and female. Because a person is a lesbian doesn''t make them cool. And the same can be applied to my beliefs. But being able to take the heat ------ now, that may mean that one is very cool.

Time to pull out my dead horse:
YouTube - "Women With Male DNA"

Since you are so interested in sperm here is a woman who possesses testes, sperm producing genitalia, but they don't work. They look women. Often grow breasts like you would expect of women. Have a vagina. No uterus. They are chromosome XY, male, and many are attracted to females while some are attracted to males. Is an XY female who is attracted to a female a lesbian or straight. I guess it depends on how they identify themselves.

How did God screw up so bad if human beings are designed for specific sexual roles? Either God failed, your God doesn't exist or you don't know as much about your God that you think you do.

YouTube - Intersex Genital Mutilation (IGM)

Autodidact will provide tons of information regarding lesbian relationships, parenting, single parenting, hetero- parenting, homosexual parenting, etc.

I just add the issue of intersex because when people claim that God creates us for a specific purpose they imply that this whole class of humanity does not belong.

It's wrong?

And that's not cool! Is it Scooby?

 

[Amhairghine]

God no! that the mission that God gave you isn't it? the Apostle says Rom 1:26For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.

The person speaking for God never defined "vile passions." You can use your imagination in that case. I am strictly heterosexual and married to the same woman for 42 years. However, I am not so arrogant as to judge sexual acts that do not appeal to me. Some humans are attracted to the same sex. I don't think they choose to be attracted to the same sex. Dogs perform homosexual humping. Bonobos (related to Chimps) frequently practice homosexual behaviour as a social bonding ritual. Putting Biblical and Qur'anic superstition aside, all I can say is that homosexuality is non-reproductive and would not be an advantage in a group of animals of an endangered species. Humans have not be an endangered species except about 70,000 to 100,000 BCE.

Homosexuality is maladaptive in the strict Darwinian sense. Perhaps anti-homosexuality is a remote memory of something endangering our race when humanity faced possible extinction in Africa following climate changes and the effects of Mount Toba, whose volcanic eruption was the most massive in the past five million years. It is just an idea.

Modern fear of homosexuality, called homophobia has a different reason in my opinion. I am not remotely homosexual but I fail to understand why other men seem so steamed up over it. It matters not to me, my wife, my children, and my grandchildren if I see two blokes getting married. I do find homosexual acts somewhat repulsive but it is none of my business.

Modern homophobia is a fear reaction of men who have homosexual tendencies but are trying to live a heterosexual life style. They may even have wives and children. However, they are constantly in turmoil over attraction to other men that they must suppress or repress all of the time. When they see two other men married or having sex, it stirs their own homosexual urges. This internal conflict makes them hate the object of their temptation, gay men. I am personally convinced but do not know with certainty, that Rev. Phelps of the "God Hates ****" Church seems a likely candidate for psychotic level of homophobia.

In that we agree they should segregate to a Church that should not call itself Christian, and their leaders (Gay priests) are to ordained Christian minister.

Boys raised by Irish Catholic mothers are pressured to do one of three things in life; be a doctor, be a lawyer, or be a priest. Catholic mothers also want families and grandchildren. So boys are pressured to get married (if doctors or if lawyers) and propagate. I spent some early years living in Ireland, so I know this tradition. When a Catholic boy first reaslises his homosexual tendencies, he is faced with a conflict. His mother is constantly introducing to elegible girls (for marriage.)

He may give in and be an unhappy husband and father. Or he can escape the pressure to marry and have children by entering the Catholic Priesthood. Mum will stop nagging him about being married and instead brag about Jimmy my son, the priest. Jimmy enters an all male seminary. Homosexual urges are harder to suppress especially when other young priests tempt them. The Catholic Priesthood is a shelter for homosexual boys. Later, they get into trouble because the urges do not go away.

I though that they have the right to kill the daughters that do not produce descendant to propagated their genes as commanded by God, but surely you know better.

They were and many still are barbarians and savages. They think like Stone Age savages. Much of the Middle Eastern World is in that retrogressive cultural state. In western countries, homophobes often rely on and use Christian superstition and the Bible to fight the symbol of their internal sexual ambivalence. They try to twist already ambiguous verses to make them feel that they have the help of the Giant Human God of the Cosmos. Unfortunately for them God is imaginary and the failure to receive divine magical assistance, causes the homophobe to suffer anxiety, paranoia, and sometimes resort to murder of known openly homosexual men.

Wrong! Muslims daughter must produce more Muslims they can be kill for inter-marrying they must not dishonor their fathers.

I am not sure Muhammad believed in such barbaric savagery. Islam was culturally advanced up to the 9th Century. Then invasions by savages: Qarmations, Selkuks, Mamluks, Ottomans, Mongols, and Timurids occurred. Islamic Culture deteriorated from the greatness of the Caliphate of Bagdad and Cordoba. North Africa, Arabia, and Central Asia descended into the depravity, filth, and brutality of a dreadful Dark Ages. Today, the Muslim World is still largely wallowing in the mud and faeces of those Dark Ages. That accounts for their horrible treatment of women, their willingness to kill other Muslims for trivial points of dogma, and kill non-believers simply for existing. Muhammad strictly forbade killing fellow Muslims and forbade killing infidels who were not attacking Muslims. Like Christians in Europe's Dark Ages (the Age of Faith), Muslims now also pay no attention to the commandment "Thou Shalt Not Kill."

I do not know if Judeo-Islamo-Christianity promotes murder and devaluation of human life or not. Perhaps mentally unstable people, driven by the religious meme (Mind Virus) feel justified by their religion to kill, torture, and oppress people. Islam and Christianity are involved largely accomplices in the deaths of hundreds of millions of people in the past 1700 years. As US President John Adams noted, it would be a best of worlds if there were no religion in it.

Amhairghine.