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Is Jesus God?

kepha31

Active Member
Agreed good post.

It did pick up many different religious aspects that were pagan, over hundreds of years before canon. Not as much as conspiracy nutters claim, but we cannot throw it all out either.
You must mean Judaism. Sure, there was apostasy and adoption of pagan practices, but it was still wrong, and out of love for His Chosen, God dealt with the problem rather sternly on many occasions.

The religion left itself open to change to make it more appealing to all, it absorbed many pagan details. But it was still layered on top of the foundation in Judaism the movement divorced early on.
Please document "many pagan details" and we can scrutinize it with the 4 above questions. The premise is that Judaism is the true religion. Catholicism is the fulfillment of Judaism. No other church or feel-good-groupie cult can make that claim. It is impossible for Catholicism to change any doctrines given in the Deposit of Faith. Development of doctrine is not change of doctrine. Catholics are taught abortion is murder, contraception damages marriages, and homosexual acts are unnatural, and that makes me an enemy of the state. Moral relativism is an anti-Christ of our day. As unappealing as it may seem, conversions are on the rise.

This movement early on was wide and diverse, there was no orthodoxy at all, and thus when all these people over hundreds of years funneled into what was popular that became orthodox, it picked up quite a bit of pagan influences.

Truth is rarely determined by what is popular. I don't know what time frame you are using for "no orthodoxy at all". If you mean the first 3 centuries of Christianity before Constantine was born, there is truckloads of evidence showing distinct Catholic doctrines, and the evidence is there for anyone who wishes to see it.

The largest the Roman Imperial Cult. It was the origin for "son of god" , as well as the mythology for the star of Bethlehem in may opinion. Also the Sermon on the mount, as it was mirroring the emperor who spoke in front of large crowds.
Are university professors teaching in an amphitheater mirroring the emperor?
Most historians don't find this a historical event.
My historians can beat up your historians. :p beginning with the veracity of the New Testament.
His parables were not made to be rambled off. yet each one needs to be digested slowly as they were important and provoked meaning. But not if repetitively read one after the other.
Agreed. I've never heard the "Roman Imperial Cult" whopper and I have been on all sorts of forums for a long time. It sounds like the dominating dictator image invented by paranoid funnymentalists.

Are wedding rings pagan?
 
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outhouse

Atheistically
You must mean Judaism

Judaism evolved from pagan religions. Christianity was influenced by pagan religions, after plagiarizing Judaism.

Christianity was born from the Hellenistic divorce of cultural Judaism.

Truth is rarely determined by what is popular

True.

Why was Matthew the first book in the NT?

How did they order Pauls epistles?

there is truckloads of evidence showing distinct Catholic doctrines

Yes, true.

But it does not have anything to do with the early diversity of the movement.

I hope you don't think Christianity started from a single geographic area. A center so to speak like Jerusalem.






Do university professors teaching in an amphitheater mirroring the emperor?

Has nothing to do with Jesus who probably stayed in poor Aramaic villages. Non sequitur.

My historians can beat up your historians

No they cannot, I have them all. LOL I know most of their positions. Some you may know im friends with.

The amphitheater parallel to the Emperor was actually the late Marvin Meyer and Jonathon Reed.


beginning with the veracity of the New Testament.

Don't go there. There is more rhetorical and mythical "Veracity" then anything historical.

"Roman Imperial Cult" whopper

Hope your not confusing me with those conspiracy nut jobs that think its all a Roman origin, its not.

LOL Just who do you think Christians targeted in the Diaspora?

They targeted and proselytized the Emperors followers who first worshipped him as "son of god" long before Jesus was even born.

Remember the first gospel was written to and for a Roman audience, as Jewish laws and customs are explained to people that do not know them.



You might be fun to debate but you need to open your mind.


the Christian churches adopted many elements of national cult and folk religion

Some Pagan ceremonies were brought in and the festivals became modern holidays as pagans joined the early church.

^ Jump up to: abcG. Barna and F. Viola (2008), Pagan Christianity?: Exploring the Roots of Our Church Practices, BarnaBooks.


I hope you understand Hellenistic philosophy, and how its applied to the movements.
 

truthofscripture

Active Member
Your pagan and idolatry charge is false, and no one has ever proven it. It's based on prejudice, ignorance, propaganda, numerous logical fallacies and false histories. It's asserted in every anti-Catholic web, but no documented primary source is ever given, but for other anti-Catholics quoting each other.

"...Opponents of the Church often attempt to discredit Catholicism by attempting to show similarities between it and the beliefs or practices of ancient paganism. This fallacy is frequently committed by Fundamentalists against Catholics, by Seventh-day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, and others against both Protestants and Catholics, and by atheists and skeptics against both Christians and Jews...

...Whenever one encounters a proposed example of pagan influence, one should demand that its existence be properly documented, not just asserted. The danger of accepting an inaccurate claim is too great. The amount of misinformation in this area is great enough that it is advisable never to accept a reported parallel as true unless it can be demonstrated from primary source documents or through reliable, scholarly secondary sources. After receiving documentation supporting the claim of a pagan parallel, one should ask a number of questions:

1. Is there a parallel? Frequently, there is not. The claim of a parallel may be erroneous, especially when the documentation provided is based on an old or undisclosed source.

For example: "The Egyptians had a trinity. They worshiped Osiris, Isis, and Horus, thousands of years before the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost were known" (Robert Ingersoll, Why I Am an Agnostic). This is not true. The Egyptians had an Ennead—a pantheon of nine major gods and goddesses. Osiris, Isis, and Horus were simply three divinities in the pantheon who were closely related by marriage and blood (not surprising, since the Ennead itself was an extended family) and who figured in the same myth cycle. They did not represent the three persons of a single divine being (the Christian understanding of the Trinity). The claim of an Egyptian trinity is simply wrong. There is no parallel.

2. Is the parallel dependent or independent? Even if there is a pagan parallel, that does not mean that there is a causal relationship involved. Two groups may develop similar beliefs, practices, and artifacts totally independently of each other. The idea that similar forms are always the result of diffusion from a common source has long been rejected by archaeology and anthropology, and for very good reason: Humans are similar to each other and live in similar (i.e., terrestrial) environments, leading them to have similar cultural artifacts and views.

For example, Fundamentalists have made much of the fact that Catholic art includes Madonna and Child images and that non-Christian art, all over the world, also frequently includes mother and child images. There is nothing sinister in this. The fact is that, in every culture, there are mothers :eek:who hold their children!

Sometimes this gets represented in art, including religious art, and it especially is used when a work of art is being done to show the motherhood of an individual. Mother-with child-images do not need to be explained by a theory of diffusion from a common, pagan religious source (such as Hislop’s suggestion that such images stem from representations of Semiramis holding Tammuz). One need look no further than the fact that mothers holding children is a universal feature of human experience and a convenient way for artists to represent motherhood.

3. Is the parallel antecedent or consequent? Even if there is a pagan parallel that is causally related to a non-pagan counterpart, this does not establish which gave rise to the other. It may be that the pagan parallel is a late borrowing from a non-pagan source. Frequently, the pagan sources we have are so late that they have been shaped in reaction to Jewish and Christian ideas. Sometimes it is possible to tell that pagans have been borrowing from non-pagans. Other times, it cannot be discerned who is borrowing from whom (or, indeed, if anyone is borrowing from anyone).

For example: The ideas expressed in the Norse Elder Edda about the end and regeneration of the world were probably influenced by the teachings of Christians with whom the Norse had been in contact for centuries (H. A. Guerber, The Norsemen, 339f).

4. Is the parallel treated positively, neutrally, or negatively? Even if there is a pagan parallel to a non-pagan counterpart, that does not mean that the item or concept was enthusiastically or uncritically accepted by non-pagans. One must ask how they regarded it. Did they regard it as something positive, neutral, or negative?

For example: Circumcision and the symbol of the cross might be termed "neutral" Jewish and Christian counterparts to pagan parallels. It is quite likely that the early Hebrews first encountered the idea of circumcision among neighboring non-Jewish peoples, but that does not mean they regarded it as a religiously good thing for non-Jews to do. Circumcision was regarded as a religiously good thing only for Jews because for them it symbolized a special covenant with the one true God (Gen. 17). The Hebrew scriptures are silent in a religious appraisal of non-Jewish circumcision; they seemed indifferent to the fact that some pagans circumcised.

Similarly, the early Christians who adopted the cross as a symbol did not do so because it was a pagan religious symbol (the pagan cultures which use it as a symbol, notably in East Asia and the Americas, had no influence on the early Christians). The cross was used as a Christian symbol because Christ died on a cross—his execution being regarded as a bad thing in itself, in fact, an infinite injustice—but one from which he brought life for the world. Christians did not adopt it because it was a pagan symbol they liked and wanted to copy...

...Examples of negative parallels are often found in Genesis. For instance, the Flood narrative (Gen. 6-9) has parallels to pagan flood stories, but is written so that it refutes ideas in them. Thus Genesis attributes the flood to human sin (6:5-7), not overpopulation, as Atrahasis’ Epic and the Greek poem Cypria did (I. Kikawada & A. Quinn). The presence of flood stories in cultures around the world does not undermine the validity of the biblical narrative, but lends it more credence.

Historical truth prevails

Ultimately, all attempts to prove Catholicism "pagan" fail. Catholic doctrines are neither borrowed from the mystery religions nor introduced from pagans after the conversion of Constantine. To make a charge of paganism stick, one must be able to show more than a similarity between something in the Church and something in the non-Christian world. One must be able to demonstrate a legitimate connection between the two, showing clearly that one is a result of the other, and that there is something wrong with the non-Christian item.

In the final analysis, nobody has been able to prove these things regarding a doctrine of the Catholic faith, or even its officially authorized practices. The charge of paganism just doesn’t work.
Is Catholicism Pagan? | Catholic Answers


See also Do Catholics Worship Statues? | Catholic Answers
You are completely incorrect in every detail. how long did it take to post the opposite of the truth? It appears that you've either cut and pasted, or spent a great deal of time trying to teach that which isn't true.
 

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
Yea, and I bet you hate puppies too.
I love puppies and catholic people. I hate when puppies chew my slippers. I hate the false teachings of the Roman Catholic religion. See the difference? I'm sure you do. I pray you stop playing the victim. It's not working.
 

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
="Servant_of_the_One1, post: 4202591, member: 56651"]
I prefer the words of Jesus above your words. He said: My God and Your God.
Jesus admitted that he has a God whom He worships. When will u follow the true message of Jesus
Can you even tell me what Jesus' main message was?

If you don't believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, then how could you argue about its teachings? You either believe the Bible is a lie or you believe it is truth.

The Bible says that Jesus is God in flesh, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God..... and the word became flesh and dwelt among us" (John 1:1, 14); and, "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form" (Col. 2:9).

You either believe the Bible or you don't.

For you to quote Bible verses is hypocritical if you don't believe the Bible is true.

The Bible, which you don't believe, teaches that Jesus is both God and man. He is completely human, but He also has divine nature.

As God,
He is worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; 28:9)
He is prayed to (Acts 7:59; 1 Cor. 1:2)
He was called God (John 20:28; Heb. 1:8)
He was called Son of God (Mark 1:1)
He is sinless (1 Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15)
He knew all things (John 21:17)
He gives eternal life (John 10:28)
The fullness of deity dwells in Him (Col. 2:9)

As a man,
He worshiped the Father (John 17)
He prayed to the Father (John 17:1)
He was called man (Mark 15:39; John 19:5).
He was called Son of Man (John 19:35-37)
He was tempted (Matt. 4:1)
He grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52)
He died (Rom. 5:8)
He has a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39)

As a man, Jesus needed to pray. When He was praying he was not praying to Himself, but to God the Father.



 

Servant_of_the_One1

Well-Known Member
Can you even tell me what Jesus' main message was?

If you don't believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, then how could you argue about its teachings? You either believe the Bible is a lie or you believe it is truth.

The Bible says that Jesus is God in flesh, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God..... and the word became flesh and dwelt among us" (John 1:1, 14); and, "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form" (Col. 2:9).

You either believe the Bible or you don't.

For you to quote Bible verses is hypocritical if you don't believe the Bible is true.

The Bible, which you don't believe, teaches that Jesus is both God and man. He is completely human, but He also has divine nature.

As God,
He is worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; 28:9)
He is prayed to (Acts 7:59; 1 Cor. 1:2)
He was called God (John 20:28; Heb. 1:8)
He was called Son of God (Mark 1:1)
He is sinless (1 Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15)
He knew all things (John 21:17)
He gives eternal life (John 10:28)
The fullness of deity dwells in Him (Col. 2:9)

As a man,
He worshiped the Father (John 17)
He prayed to the Father (John 17:1)
He was called man (Mark 15:39; John 19:5).
He was called Son of Man (John 19:35-37)
He was tempted (Matt. 4:1)
He grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52)
He died (Rom. 5:8)
He has a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39)

As a man, Jesus needed to pray. When He was praying he was not praying to Himself, but to God the Father.



The message of Jesus son of Mary was: O children of Israel, worship Allah, My God and Your God.
This message is present in Bible and Quran.

Those who lied about him will meet punishment.


May Allah curse me if iam telling lie about Jesus son of Mary. Thats how sure iam.

Can u make the same supplication?
Say: May God curse me if iam lying about Jesus, amen.

I dare you to say that.
 

truthofscripture

Active Member
Can you even tell me what Jesus' main message was?

If you don't believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, then how could you argue about its teachings? You either believe the Bible is a lie or you believe it is truth.

The Bible says that Jesus is God in flesh, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God..... and the word became flesh and dwelt among us" (John 1:1, 14); and, "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form" (Col. 2:9).

You either believe the Bible or you don't.

For you to quote Bible verses is hypocritical if you don't believe the Bible is true.

The Bible, which you don't believe, teaches that Jesus is both God and man. He is completely human, but He also has divine nature.

As God,
He is worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; 28:9)
He is prayed to (Acts 7:59; 1 Cor. 1:2)
He was called God (John 20:28; Heb. 1:8)
He was called Son of God (Mark 1:1)
He is sinless (1 Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15)
He knew all things (John 21:17)
He gives eternal life (John 10:28)
The fullness of deity dwells in Him (Col. 2:9)

As a man,
He worshiped the Father (John 17)
He prayed to the Father (John 17:1)
He was called man (Mark 15:39; John 19:5).
He was called Son of Man (John 19:35-37)
He was tempted (Matt. 4:1)
He grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52)
He died (Rom. 5:8)
He has a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39)

As a man, Jesus needed to pray. When He was praying he was not praying to Himself, but to God the Father.
The Bible teaches no such thing. It does not teach, ANYWHERE, that Jesus is God. It does say he is as a god, but not God the Father. God the Almighty. The only one True God. Jesus is the son of the One True God, not God himself. You misunderstand the scriptures, or you take the false teachings of religion to be true. Religions of man are FALSE as Jesus clearly said more than once.
 

kepha31

Active Member
You are completely incorrect in every detail. how long did it take to post the opposite of the truth? It appears that you've either cut and pasted, or spent a great deal of time trying to teach that which isn't true.
Then prove it isn't true. Take any one paragraph in context and provide scholarly evidence that it isn't true. Pontification is easy, research is hard.

Yes, I cut and paste...a lot. I indent and give the source, all within the rules of this forum. You simply cannot refute what I post so you reply with headless chicken comments.

I love puppies and catholic people. I hate when puppies chew my slippers. I hate the false teachings of the Roman Catholic religion. See the difference? I'm sure you do. I pray you stop playing the victim. It's not working.
There are no false teachings in Catholicism and the only proof you have otherwise is your private interpretation of the bible which the Bible teaches against. I refuted the false charge of paganism and because you can't understand it, you dismiss me as playing the victim. What you are saying is Catholics have no right to defend themselves against bigotry and lies.

It's a shame how successful and large the Catholic Church is. Constantine would be proud. I know Satan is.
Hate speech. If you fall for the myths about Constantine you will fall for anything. A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. Does that look familiar? What else did Jesus say about people who credit Satan for God's work?
 
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JM2C

CHRISTIAN
Clear asked (post #278) : M2C :
How would one write the words “The Word was THE God” in clear koine greek?
How would one write the words : “The Word was A God” in clear koine greek?
Which result matches what John wrote? (Pick any word order you want for the translation of this simple phrase since it doesn't matter in Greek)


JM2C replied (post #288) Either one denies the Trinity. “and the Word was the God” AND “and the Word was a god” are all Unitarians, from the Jews, Muslims, Arians/jw, Modalist, Sabellianism they all denied the Trinity. The predicate nominative in the 3rd clause is the word “theos/God” and the linking verb is the word “en/was” and the subject is the “ho logos/the Word”. Think of the linking verb “was/en” as an equal sign. Then it would read like this: “and the Word = God”. IOW, John made it “Clear” in the 3rd clause that the “Word” is NOT an “a god” as the 1st clause suggested that “In the beginning was the Word”, and NOTthe God” as the 2nd clause suggested “and the Word was with God” and therefore John’s conclusion in the 3rd clause can only be “and the Word was God”. There is no other logical conclusion in the 3rd clause but “and the Word was God”. You can’t argue from this if you can only read the whole verse and not just the 3rd clause like all these Unitarians have done for hundreds of years.



JM2C :
Nothing in your post answered the very, very, simple question I asked, but instead, your post simply restates your position with irrelevant, confused and incorrect Jargon that is not actual koine Greek grammar. (ην is NOT the same as an equal sign") Creating incorrect rules to support your theory does not enlighten, but confuses readers.

JM2C
, The greek involved is very, very, very simple.
I asked you :
How would one write the words “The Word was THE God” in clear koine greek?
How would one write the words : “The Word was A God” in clear koine greek?


Readers can then simply compare with their own eyes, the resulting sentences to what John wrote and see simply and clearly what Johns sentence says. If you need help with this, ask someone you trust who actually can read greek to help you with these two five-word sentences.



FORUM READERS
If the religious context is becoming a stumbling block for others of you, then pick any words without religious bias and plug them into the greek and see what the results are.

For example : Pick ANY greek nouns you want and plug it into this sentence and the result is the same.

Instead of translating "The Word was A God." and "The Word was THE God.", try translating "The dog was A friend" and "The dog was THE friend",

or "The man was A brother" versus "The man was THE brother.",

or "The pencil was A tool." versus "The pencil was THE tool."

Then, simply match the result to Johns usage and you will see if John 1:1 can or should mean "The word was A God.", or "The word was THE God." when it is not forced by a specific theological context.

If you switch nouns in all three clauses, the result is the same. For example, : "In the beginning was the "Pencil", and the "Pencil" was with God, and the "Pencil was a God." Pick any noun you want, the results will be the same. This is a very, very, very simple point. It does not require support from confusing irrelevant and incorrect and confusing jargon to see the point.


When JM2C provides us all with a correct answer of the simple question of translation I asked him to provide, you will see that this is correct.

Clear
εινεδρει
”Pick any noun you want, and the results will be the same -Clear” Really?
You cannot just pick or switch a NOUN in the 3rd clause [And the Word was God] and use it as a SUBJECT.

The one with the DEFINITE ARTICLE is the SUBJECT, i.e., “THE WORD/noun” and the one WITHOUT THE DEFINITE ARTICLE is what you call the PREDICATE NOMINATIVE, i.e., “GOD/noun” and to link the SUBJECT [THE WORD/noun] to the PREDICATE NOMINATIVE [GOD/noun] you would need a LINKING VERB, and that is, the “EN/WAS”.

Can you REVERSE the NOUN or make “THE WORD” as the PREDICATE NOMINATIVE and “GOD” as the SUBJECT with the same LINKING VERB? CLEARY, YOU/Clear CANNOT!

The reason why John did not place a DEFINITE ARTICLE in front of “GOD” in the 3rd clause is to indicate that “THE WORD” was NOT “THE GOD” in the 2nd clause where it says “AND THE WORD WAS WITH THE GOD”. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS?

In the natural Greek word order in the 3rd clause it would say, “AND GOD WAS THE WORD” had John place a definite article in front of the word “GOD” in the 3rd clause, then it would read like this “AND THE GOD WAS THE WORD” as in "THE GOD/FATHER IS REALLY THE WORD" AS THE UNITARIANS' ARGUMENTS, and in this case, or if this was the case, then it would CONTRADICT the 2nd clause where it says “AND THE WORD WAS WITH THE GOD” as in "THE WORD, i.e., the Lord Jesus Christ, WAS WITH THE GOD, i.e., the Father/God" as the Trinitarians' Arguments which is the correct argument base on the text and context of 1st and 2nd clauses and therefore cannot escape the conclusion in the 3rd clause where it says, “and the Word was God”. There is no other conclusion, IOW. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS?

You and jw/nwt and all the Unitarians are going to have hard time arguing from this. John 1:1 if you read it right/correctly is BULLETPROOF.

IOW, you won’t be able to understand the rest of the book if you can’t understand John 1:1 first.
 

JM2C

CHRISTIAN
Notice the capitalization of God, and the lower case god as well. They're very important. It refers to God the Almighty, and God's only begotten son as being "as a god", not "as a God".
Did You/jw/nwt really think that you can just slap an “a” in front of “theos” and teach that it was really an “a god” because it is in the lower case? There was no lower and upper case in the Greek language.
 

NoX

Active Member
Ofcourse he is not. There were written hundreds of Bibles by some Jewish people after prophet Jesus. Just one of them was true Bible and other 99 was false. Then christian council made a meeting to decide about true Bible, in Turkiye. They said that God would save the true Bible and lets throw them all from the roof of a Church. Then they chose a Bible (fake) with least damage, it was written according to Greek mythology, an adapted version of Christianity. While Greek mythology says that Zeus is the son of God, the adapted version was saying Jesus is the son of God. Jews tried to do similar thing in Hungaria for Quran too, A jewish person published a Quran translation and handed out it everywhere, was full of corrupted translations.
 

JM2C

CHRISTIAN
One must be careful to take in ACCURATE knowledge daily of God and His written word, the inspired scriptures. Taking in INACCURATE translations of those scriptures, most certainly does not allow us to take in accurate knowledge. King James, and almost 38 other translations are filled with mistranslated words, leading the reader to the wrong conclusions. This was deliberately done, first, in about 325 a.d. by a PAGAN emperor, Emperor Constantine. He was creating a bible for his new "state religion", the Roman Church. It is from this original bible, a mixture of pagan and Christian writings, that all of our modern day English translations of the scriptures came. There's only a few accurate translations that exist. Three to be exact, and two of them aren't completely true to the original intent of God's inspired words. So it's not a "jw alteration", it's a pagan alteration that you're reading, and thinking that the NWT isn't the correct one, when it's the only correct English translation that is accurate word for word. Your Bible is missing God's personal name, over 6,000 times (and I don't mean His title, God). Does that sound accurate to you?
Enough of this C&P please. You can’t even defend your/jw/nwt adulteration of John 1:1 and here you are blaming or correcting other translations.
 

JM2C

CHRISTIAN
Isaiah 6:1 In the year that King Uz·ziʹah died, I saw Jehovah sitting on a lofty and elevated throne, and the skirts of his robe filled the temple.


John 12:41 Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory, and he spoke about him.


Isaiah 6:1-4

6 In the year that King Uz·ziʹah died, I saw Jehovah sitting on a lofty and elevated throne, and the skirts of his robe filled the temple. 2 Seraphs were standing above him; each had six wings. Each covered his face with two and covered his feet with two, and each of them would fly about with two.

3 And one called to the other:

“Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah of armies.

The whole earth is filled with his glory.”

4 And the pivots of the thresholds quivered at the sound of the shouting, and the house was filled with smoke.
Look into your/jw/nwt own translation of John 12:41 and Isaiah 6:1-4 and harmonize them. You/jw/nwt can’t see the truth even if it was staring at you, can you? John said Isaiah saw the Lord Jesus in Isaiah 6:1 as the LORD.
 

JM2C

CHRISTIAN
Message of Paul was polytheism, message of Muhammad pbuh was pure monotheism. To say muhammad pbuh is false, is to say all prophets such as abraham, moses, noah and jesus were false too.


Its illogical to accept the message of Abraham, Moses and Jesus(No God but Allah, pure monotheism) and to reject message of prophet Muhammad pbuh(No god but Allah, pure monotheism).
Can you trace Muhammad’s genealogy to Abraham?
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Ofcourse he is not. There were written hundreds of Bibles by some Jewish people after prophet Jesus. Just one of them was true Bible and other 99 was false. Then christian council made a meeting to decide about true Bible, in Turkiye. They said that God would save the true Bible and lets throw them all from the roof of a Church. Then they chose a Bible (fake) with least damage, it was written according to Greek mythology, an adapted version of Christianity. While Greek mythology says that Zeus is the son of God, the adapted version was saying Jesus is the son of God. Jews tried to do similar thing in Hungaria for Quran too, A jewish person published a Quran translation and handed out it everywhere, was full of corrupted translations.

Not really what happened.

There is no such thing as a true bible. There were however many different traditions that were funneled down to what became orthodox by popularity alone.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Enough of this C&P please. You can’t even defend your/jw/nwt adulteration of John 1:1 and here you are blaming or correcting other translations.

Agreed.

There is plenty of evidence in the NT for Jesus divinity. Just because the trinity slowly evolved hundreds of years later, does not mean there is no evidence in support.
 
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