Is Jesus God?

[OneThatGotAway]

Some very interesting reasoning in this thread. From a personal POV, I refer to (King James Version)1Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
&
2 Corinthians 1:3 (American Standard Version) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort;
& 1 Corinthians 15:24 (NWT) Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.

I want to worship the God and father Jesus worships.

Amen brother. Jesus the Son of God is going to make sure all people worship him only as the Son of God and Yahweh as God the Father; whether the Trinitarians like it or not.

 

[OneThatGotAway]

Until you understand John 1:1b "and the Word was with God" and John 1:1c "and the Word was God" you gonna be doing, without an end, what you are doing right now, i.e., repeating yourself with same the answer.

Likewise.

 

[pro4life]

No.

 

[JM2C]

Some very interesting reasoning in this thread. From a personal POV, I refer to (King James Version)1Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

&

2 Corinthians 1:3 (American Standard Version) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort;

& 1 Corinthians 15:24 (NWT) Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.


I want to worship the God and father Jesus worships.

JN 1:1 In the beginning was the Word/The Son of God, and the Word/The Son of God was with God/Father, and the Word was God.

HEB 1:8 But of the Son/The Word, the Son of God He/Father/God says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD/Son of God/the Word, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

 

[sojourner]

OneThatGotAway said:
Koine Greek: Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεός ἦν ὁ λόγος.
Greek transliteration: En archē ēn ho Lógos, kai ho Lógos ēn pros ton Theón, kai Theós ēn ho Lógos.
Greek to English: In beginning was the Word, and the Word was with (toward) the God, and God was the Word.
Sahidic Coptic to English: In the beginning existed the Word and the Word existed with the God and a god was the Word
Jubilee Bible: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and the Word was God.

You see, other scholarly Christians have translated the Greek language of John 1:1 correctly because they see the words "τὸν θεόν," with their own unbiased eyes.
How can the Sahidic Coptic and Jubilee Bible translators be wrong?
Like I said, so easy even a cave man can read it.



But please, allow me to help you understand John 1:1. We already know that there are two persons being refer to here in John 1:1b. Jesus Christ (Son of God, ὁ λόγος) was with Yahweh (The God Almighty, τὸν θεόν). That was neither an issue nor a doubt in our minds of how many persons were there; the main issue is who they are in all three sections of John 1:1 (a, b, c,)
We do see that the "ho Logos" in the third clause is with "TON THEON" in the second clause. No one never said to the contrary! LOL

However, (again) allow me to help you understand the third clause: It is written literally and plainly that:

"...and a god (theos) was the Word (logos)."

That is why the above English translators correctly translated the Koine Greek of John 1:1 correctly. We still have two distinct persons in the beginning: Yahweh The God and Jesus The Son of God with limited deity, i.e. a god. This is not modalism but two distinct deities with one being The True God and the other being the Son of God (a god nevertheless).

However, the article "a" isn't conclusive in its meaning. It can either mean "one of several," or it can refer to the god that's already being talked about. Since John is a monotheist, it's assumed that he's referring to the one God.

 

[sojourner]

Yes, brother. I found it amazing that many priests and preachers fail to see this every time they preach these holy events to their churches. I just hope that more Christians will realize the way "Our Father Who Art In Heaven" reveals himself.

Important phrase in this post: "I found it amazing." The Trinity has been roughly debated since the beginning. The majority of scholars have found for the Trinity. But, suddenly, to you, it's clear as day that everybody's wrong. Mm hmm.

 

[.kaleb]

JN 1:1 In the beginning was the Word/The Son of God, and the Word/The Son of God was with God/Father, and the Word was God.

There is probably 50 threads on John 1:1 and how it should be translated. So if the kjv of John 1:1 is correct, what kind of god is Jesus?
The Kingdom Interlinear ( Greek translation renders )John 1:18 God no one has seen at any time; only-begotten god the (one) being into the bosom of the Father that (one) explained.

• If Jesus is described as an only begotten god in vs 18, what does that actually mean?

HEB 1:8 But of the Son/The Word, the Son of God He/Father/God says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD/Son of God/the Word, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

(Byington) Hebrews 1:8 but as to the Son “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of integrity is the scepter of his reign.​

What does this mean exactly as the 2 translations may present 2 different explanations.
Go down to vs 9 tho... 9 You loved rectitude and hated wickedness; for this reason God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of joy beyond your fellows,”
What do you think Paul is indicating when he says with relation to Jesus... "God, your God"?
• does Jesus have a God over him?

 

[JM2C]

(Byington) Hebrews 1:8 but as to the Son “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of integrity is the scepter of his reign.

Why not “I am your throne” since it was God who was speaking in the 3rd person singular? –See verse 7 “And of the angels HE [3rd person singular] says”

 

[.kaleb]

Why not “I am your throne” since it was God who was speaking in the 3rd person singular? –See verse 7 “And of the angels HE [3rd person singular] says”

You correctly note that it is God that is speaking, not that he is being addressed. So then when the expression "God, thy God," showing that the one addressed is not the Most High God but is a worshiper of that God.

Hence it becomes irreconcilable IMO to equate Jesus with the most high God, when Jesus has a God over him, and is subject to that one.

 

[psychoslice]

Jesus is no more God than I am.

 

[.kaleb]

Jesus is no more God than I am.

Jesus is more God-like than you are. He was the perfect representation of God, which is why he stated "he who has seen me has seen the father." But he is not the most high God, Jehovah.

 

[psychoslice]

Jesus is more God-like than you are. He was the perfect representation of God, which is why he stated "he who has seen me has seen the father." But he is not the most high God, Jehovah.

Na, you wrong, you are putting Jesus up on a pedestal which you yourself can never meet, stop crawling to God, and come to him in confidence, come boldly to the lord, not crawling.

 

[.kaleb]

Na, you wrong, you are putting Jesus up on a pedestal which you yourself can never meet, stop crawling to God, and come to him in confidence, come boldly to the lord, not crawling.

New World Translation 1Peter 5:5, 6 In the same way, you younger men, be in subjection to the older men. But all of you clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because God opposes the haughty ones, but he gives undeserved kindness to the humble ones. 6 Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God, so that he may exalt you in due time...

Christ is my king, and is this planets new ruler. Additionally revelation 4:11 says “You are worthy, Jehovah our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they came into existence and were created.”

Humility is essential to pleasing God. There is nothing crawling about that.

 

[psychoslice]

New World Translation 1Peter 5:5, 6 In the same way, you younger men, be in subjection to the older men. But all of you clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because God opposes the haughty ones, but he gives undeserved kindness to the humble ones. 6 Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God, so that he may exalt you in due time...

Christ is my king, and is this planets new ruler. Additionally revelation 4:11 says “You are worthy, Jehovah our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they came into existence and were created.”

Humility is essential to pleasing God. There is nothing crawling about that.

Na, you and your Jehovah Witness beliefs mean nothing to me, wake up and find the true Christ, not a mere New World Translation, Christ is who you are, can you handle that ?.

 

[.kaleb]

Na, you and your Jehovah Witness beliefs mean nothing to me, wake up and find the true Christ, not a mere New World Translation, Christ is who you are, can you handle that ?.

I am striving every day to be more like Christ. However, where I think you and I differ greatly is that I recognize that Jesus is the head of the congregation, and is directing the work of Jehovah's witnesses.

 

[moorea944]

Jesus is more God-like than you are. He was the perfect representation of God, which is why he stated "he who has seen me has seen the father." But he is not the most high God, Jehovah.

How true. He is not God, but God-like. He manifested his Father's character and will perfectly.

 

[JM2C]

You correctly note that it is God that is speaking, not that he is being addressed. So then when the expression "God, thy God," showing that the one addressed is not the Most High God but is a worshiper of that God.

The question should be, why did God/Father called His Son, God, if He is not God? And in Exodus 20:3 it says, “You shall have no other/different gods before me.” And in Acts 7:55-56 Stephen saw the “Lord Jesus Christ standing at the right hand of God.”

Read Psalm 110:1 and Matthew 22:44 “the Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet.””

Now, who could sit right next to God/Father? Other/Different/heteros god/s? NO! Only God can sit next to God. No created beings can sit next to the Creator/God.

Hence it becomes irreconcilable IMO to equate Jesus with the most high God, when Jesus has a God over him, and is subject to that one.

That’s why you need to understand John 1:1a, 1:1b and 1:1c, because according to John 1:1 the Lord Jesus Christ is God and not an “a god”.

1CO 15:28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

Here we have the Son, i.e., the Lord Jesus Christ, and “the ONE who subjected all things to Him”, i.e., the God/Father. Does this mean He is not God? NO!

Verse 28 is after all, including death –1Co 15:26, was subjected under the Lord Jesus Christ’s feet.

And “then comes the end –1Co 15:24”, “at His [2nd] coming –1Co 15:23”, where there is no more sequence like the one in verse 23, “when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father –1Co 15:24” and “then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him –1Co 15:28”.

From the start of the Creation, i.e., “All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. –John 1:3, Col 1:16”, to the Redemption of men, i.e., the Lord Jesus Christ’s earthly ministry, to His death on the cross, to His burial, to His resurrection, and to His ascension to the right hand of God, all these are Christ’s mediatorship between God and men. IOW, at the end –1Co 15:24, at His 2nd Coming –1Co 15:23, His office, as the MEDIATOR [from the start of the creation to the redemption of men], between God and men ends or no longer needed. All works that were laid under His feet, from creation to death, is finish. No need to intercede between God and men for they are all will be with God at end, because there is no more enemy to defeat or “DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY”.

“The last enemy that will be abolished is death. -1Cor 15:26”

 

[sojourner]

Jesus is more God-like than you are. He was the perfect representation of God, which is why he stated "he who has seen me has seen the father." But he is not the most high God, Jehovah.

Problem is that the Greek terms don't translate "representation." He is not the Father, but he is God.

 

[sojourner]

I am striving every day to be more like Christ. However, where I think you and I differ greatly is that I recognize that Jesus is the head of the congregation, and is directing the work of Jehovah's witnesses.

You already are like Christ. That was the whole point of God becoming Incarnate -- to reconcile humanity to Divinity.

 

[sojourner]

How true. He is not God, but God-like. He manifested his Father's character and will perfectly.

He manifested God perfectly, too.