Is Jesus God?

[Violet9]

If Jesus is God then it's not much of a sacrifice for him to sacrifice himself to himself in order to fill a loophole he created (blood sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins). Weird setup

 

[atpollard]

Welcome.

If Jesus is God

He is.

then it's not much of a sacrifice for him to sacrifice himself

Come back when you have been crucified and tell me "it's not much of a sacrifice" ... right now you lack credibility to make that claim.
From what I read about it, crucifixion sounds like a pretty big deal to me.

to himself in order to fill a loophole he created (blood sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins).

I suppose he could have decided NOT to forgive sin, killed Adam and Eve and gathered up another lump of clay to try again.
I wonder what "blood sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins" might say about God and Man and Sin?

Weird setup

Yup.
So is a world in which you are statistically more likely to be murdered by a spouse or family member than a stranger.
I wonder what that fact might say about people?

 

[Violet9]

Jesus was a prophet that suffered from the delusion that his father was the one and only god.
Aside from that belief, he seemed to be a nice man with some profound humanist thinking.
Now about that god that was supposedly to be his father....anyone's guess ! I doubt it highly.
~
'mud

If he actually existed Jesus was not a nice man but perhaps a dim witted one quoted in 1 Peter 2:18 saying "slaves obey your masters even the perverse ones," seriously this is bad advice, especially coming from a god, or a humiliated for that matter.

 

[`mud]

1002 posts and you pick on me....
I'm honored......but I don't really agree.
Anyway....welcome aboard.
~
'mud

 

[Violet9]

Welcome.


He is.


Come back when you have been crucified and tell me "it's not much of a sacrifice" ... right now you lack credibility to make that claim.
From what I read about it, crucifixion sounds like a pretty big deal to me.


I suppose he could have decided NOT to forgive sin, killed Adam and Eve and gathered up another lump of clay to try again.
I wonder what "blood sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins" might say about God and Man and Sin?


Yup.
So is a world in which you are statistically more likely to be murdered by a spouse or family member than a stranger.
I wonder what that fact might say about people?

Welcome.


He is.


Come back when you have been crucified and tell me "it's not much of a sacrifice" ... right now you lack credibility to make that claim.
From what I read about it, crucifixion sounds like a pretty big deal to me.


I suppose he could have decided NOT to forgive sin, killed Adam and Eve and gathered up another lump of clay to try again.
I wonder what "blood sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins" might say about God and Man and Sin?


Yup.
So is a world in which you are statistically more likely to be murdered by a spouse or family member than a stranger.
I wonder what that fact might say about people?

Thank you

The Romans killed thousands of people using crucifixion.
Today people in the Middle East and Africa are still being crucified, even children.
I imagine their suffering is greater considering they actually suffer and die, and do not return to becoming God of the Universe 3 days later. It's a silly comparison.

Blood sacrifice, blood rituals, human sacrifice, all of these are barbaric ancient practices and belief systems
Christianity is based on a flawed concept that the shedding of the blood of someone else (actually the smell of it according to the bible god), be it an animal, person, or god, has the ability to relieve you of responsibility for your behavior and actions.
This is an immoral concept to me. Why not create a better more ethical less gruesome system, is this truly the best the creator of countless stars and galaxies can think up, then thousands of years later has to come back and correct it. Silliness.

And actually we live in a world where 9 million die every year before reaching their 5th birthday. Weird system.
Heaven and Hell must be overrun with babies everywhere all over, what's the point of the whole Jesus sacrifice, let's just call it that right, if so so so many bypass the entire process?

Lastly you mentioned Adam and Eve. Another immoral concept to me. That a little newborn could possibly be responsible for the "sins" or fruit eating what have you, of very very very distant ancestors. There isn't anything moral about that.

 

[Violet9]

1002 posts and you pick on me....
I'm honored......but I don't really agree.
Anyway....welcome aboard.
~
'mud

Lol it had to be somebody thanks for being my first

 

[sojourner]

If Jesus is God then it's not much of a sacrifice for him to sacrifice himself to himself in order to fill a loophole he created (blood sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins). Weird setup

1) It wasn't a sacrifice to God.
2) It wasn't a blood sacrifice.

Those are concepts that are patently not biblical, or within the minds of either the gospel writers or Paul.

 

[`mud]

Now and then I get lost in someone's thinking.
Sojo, I think that's your thinking at this time.
'Splainittome
~
'mud

 

[sojourner]

Now and then I get lost in someone's thinking.
Sojo, I think that's your thinking at this time.
'Splainittome
~
'mud

The whole "substitutionary atonement" thing is fairly new to Christianity -- medieval in origin, not ancient. Whatever we read into the biblical texts is read back into them from this medieval construct -- not from concepts original to the texts, themselves.

 

[`mud]

Welllllll........ok.
~
'mud

 

[moorea944]

He manifested God perfectly, too.

Yes, exactly!

 

[.kaleb]

Only God can sit next to God. No created beings can sit next to the Creator/God.

I'm not arguing Christ's divinity. However, are you saying Christ did not have a definite beginning?

That’s why you need to understand John 1:1a, 1:1b and 1:1c, because according to John 1:1 the Lord Jesus Christ is God and not an “a god”.

i agree understanding who Christ is, and his role in accomplishing Gods purpose is essential. So my question is the same as before, do you believe Christ has always existed, or was he bought into existence?

1CO 15:28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

Here we have the Son, i.e., the Lord Jesus Christ, and “the ONE who subjected all things to Him”, i.e., the God/Father. Does this mean He is not God? NO!

so does Jesus have a God whom he worships, or is over him in authority?

 

[.kaleb]

You already are like Christ. That was the whole point of God becoming Incarnate -- to reconcile humanity to Divinity.

Here is where I'm coming at this from.
John 17:3 says This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
My everlasting life is contingent on my correct understanding of both God, and Jesus Christ. So I want to make sure I'm forming a relationship with them based on correct understanding of who they both are.

The evidence is the same for all of us, we can all access the same scriptures, it's just seems to be the conclusions that differ somewhat.

 

[JM2C]

Here is where I'm coming at this from.

John 17:3 says This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

My everlasting life is contingent on my correct understanding of both God, and Jesus Christ. So I want to make sure I'm forming a relationship with them based on correct understanding of who they both are.


The evidence is the same for all of us, we can all access the same scriptures, it's just seems to be the conclusions that differ somewhat.

In John 17:3 it did not say the Lord Jesus is not God. In 1John 5:20 it did not say that God the Father is not God.
1JN 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

 

[sojourner]

so does Jesus have a God whom he worships, or is over him in authority?

Of course -- just like every other fully human being.

 

[sojourner]

My everlasting life is contingent on my correct understanding of both God, and Jesus Christ.

No it isn't. Your everlasting life is contingent upon God raising you from the dead.

I want to make sure I'm forming a relationship with them based on correct understanding of who they both are.

You need to make sure you're forming a relationship with them based on love and devotion.

The evidence is the same for all of us, we can all access the same scriptures, it's just seems to be the conclusions that differ somewhat.

They differ because of differences in perspective and one's ability to exegete the texts and understand the perspectives of the writers.

 

[Muffled]

I'm saying that I do not refer to my spirit as a separate person. I am part spirit. So if I every refer to my spirit; it will be as though as am referring to some other part of my body (like my head or arms).
I would not say: "I am staying home but my spirit is going on vacation".

I believe I understand that since that is the first definition of person ie physical body with resident spirit. However the second definition of person as an entity that has personaliity means that your mind can have one personality and your spirit another which makes for two persons by the second definition.

I believe there are those who have claimed to have done jsut that.

 

[Muffled]

Yes, brother. I found it amazing that many priests and preachers fail to see this every time they preach these holy events to their churches. I just hope that more Christians will realize the way "Our Father Who Art In Heaven" reveals himself.

I believe I fail to see how it applies. Did he wave a majic wand to make angels into God? There certainly is no scripture that says they are. I believe I see what he did he likened angels to Jesus as though that establishes something and I don't believe it does.

 

[Muffled]

Until you understand John 1:1b "and the Word was with God" and John 1:1c "and the Word was God" you gonna be doing, without an end, what you are doing right now, i.e., repeating yourself with same the answer.

I believe I understand it to mean that Jesus is God in the flesh. I believe people who see it differently don't understand.

 

[Muffled]

No it isn't. Your everlasting life is contingent upon God raising you from the dead.

You need to make sure you're forming a relationship with them based on love and devotion.

They differ because of differences in perspective and one's ability to exegete the texts and understand the perspectives of the writers.

I believe there are differences also because not everyone has the Holy Spirit as a guide.