Is Jesus God?

[Mountain_Climber]

The idea of ''co-equal'', to me, is moot, though. Since Jesu is a manifestation of the father, there is only One Deity anyway. The ''man form'' of Jesus, is man, if we take this traditionally, but His Spirit is the fathers. So, Jesu in Spirit, is really the father. I don't believe in the idea of two different entities in the Godhead, at all.

I think we are tomato-tomahto, on this, but the wording can get confusing, unless we explain ourselves.

/disciple

You and I are in agreement on that point. We are also created to manifest God in our lives. That is what and image does. An image reflects the person or thing it images like a mirror.

That in no way makes us God, yet that is exactly how Jesus manifests God. When Jesus worked miracles it was the power of God working in and through him. And some of the disciples were able for that same reason to work similar miracles, even raising the dead.

 

[moorea944]

The idea of ''co-equal'', to me, is moot, though. Since Jesu is a manifestation of the father, there is only One Deity anyway. The ''man form'' of Jesus, is man, if we take this traditionally, but His Spirit is the fathers. So, Jesu in Spirit, is really the father. I don't believe in the idea of two different entities in the Godhead, at all.

I think we are tomato-tomahto, on this, but the wording can get confusing, unless we explain ourselves.

/disciple

lol I hear ya! Ok, I"ll try to explain myself better. (I hope I can do it too) :>)

The "man form' of Jesus is man

I believe that Jesus was a man and not God at all. Too many verses that state that, but if you want, I can post. God was his father, yes, but he was also born of a woman, inheriting Adam's nature. David was also his father too. And everyone knew that. Jesus even tells us that he is the son of man and David is his father. When I read scripture about the Godhead, I see Jesus is the head of man, man is the head of woman, God is the head of Jesus. (1 Cor 11v3)

God is one is all through the bible, esp, in OT.

but His Spirit is the fathers. So, Jesu in Spirit, is really the father.

Dont we have God's Spirit in us too? If that is the case, then we are God also. But that is not the case. We are God's creation, His children. I do respect everyone's belief on this board, I do. But sometimes when I hear that Jesus is God, our creator, I cringe....

 

[Muffled]

Jesus will be upset if you refer to him as the Son of God instead of God; because he only refer to himself as only the Son of God. Jesus never said "my name is Yahweh" or "I am God" or "I am no longer the Son of God but God". That would give Satan a chance to say "Aha! Jesus has sinned by breaking the first commandment of the Ten Commandments!"

I believe He has never said He was upset and in fact He is the one who has led me to an undestanding of the Trinity.

I believe this statement is false.

I believe this is the null hypothesis so one must provide a reason why He must say those things.

 

[Muffled]

That completely doesnt even make sense. Re-read what you just wrote. Jesus would be upset if you called him God!! Since Jesus is NOT God, and he gave glory to "God", and the scriptures tell us that God is the head (leader) of Christ and He is Jesus's father AND God, etc, etc. But doesnt the bible say that Jesus is the Son of God? Doesnt Jesus even call himself the "son of man" too? But NEVER God. For there is only ONE God. And that is the father of all. Even Jesus.

I believe Jesus calls Himself one with the Father and this verse shows that He means God when He says Father:
Joh 8:54 Jesus answered, If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing: it is my Father that glorifieth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God;

 

[Muffled]

Hello everyone! I just joined the forum. I don't think I'll take the time to read all 52 pages of comments, lol, so if I say anything that has been said I apologize!

Welcome to RF. Don't worry because it happens all the time on long threads. It werks 4 me.

 

[moorea944]

I believe Jesus calls Himself one with the Father

I totally agree with that one! Jesus is one with the Father. Esp, in spirit, will, purpose... but he is not God.

and this verse shows that He means God when He says Father:
Joh 8:54 Jesus answered, If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing: it is my Father that glorifieth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God;

Yes, that is also correct. The Father, which is also Jesus's Father too, IS God. Jesus gloried God, his Father, in everything he did. Jesus was IN God and God was IN Jesus. God manifestion right there. But God is also in us too.

 

[Muffled]

totally agree with that one! Jesus is one with the Father. Esp, in spirit, will, purpose... but he is not God.

I believe this does not follow from your previous words. One with the Father means one with God; means He is God.

Yes, that is also correct. The Father, which is also Jesus's Father too, IS God. Jesus gloried God, his Father, in everything he did. Jesus was IN God and God was IN Jesus. God manifestion right there. But God is also in us too.

I beleive the "in" used by Jesus in John 14 means more than just God's diffusion through everything; it means abiding in for the God was in Jesus, for the Jesus in God, it means that conceptually Jesus is a portion of God but since God is one there is no real divide.

I beleive, if you are talking about infusion that means everyone but if you mean abiding in then He only abides in those who ask Him to be Lord and Savior.

 

[TheInfiniteLight]

I'm interested in hearing thoughts about (1) Where this idea comes from and (2) If you agree with it and why/why not. I have heard it described like this: Because of the Trinity, Jesus is God, and all the things done in the Old Testament were therefore done by Jesus prior to his human incarnation. Thoughts?

Question rather is Jesus the most righteous man? If you see him as the Lord Our Righteousness then He becomes God to you. However, if you see him as just another man then you cannot call Him Wonderful and Councilor and the Mighty One and the Everlasting Father. Is Jesus more righteous than you? If you say yes then pick up your cross and follow Him. You'll see how he is God if you could deny yourself and accept Him. He is the one who is righteous, not I--that's why I follow him because I hear His voice and I know it is He who is God.

 

[Muffled]

Question rather is Jesus the most righteous man? If you see him as the Lord Our Righteousness then He becomes God to you. However, if you see him as just another man then you cannot call Him Wonderful and Councilor and the Mighty One and the Everlasting Father. Is Jesus more righteous than you? If you say yes then pick up your cross and follow Him. You'll see how he is God if you could deny yourself and accept Him. He is the one who is righteous, not I--that's why I follow him because I hear His voice and I know it is He who is God.

I believe it is not how we see it that matters. Jesus claimed to be good and said that only God is good.

 

[Muffled]

believe Jesus calls Himself one with the Father
Click to expand...
I totally agree with that one! Jesus is one with the Father. Esp, in spirit, will, purpose... but he is not God.

and this verse shows that He means God when He says Father:
Joh 8:54 Jesus answered, If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing: it is my Father that glorifieth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God;
Click to expand...
Yes, that is also correct. The Father, which is also Jesus's Father too, IS God. Jesus gloried God, his Father, in everything he did. Jesus was IN God and God was IN Jesus. God manifestion right there. But God is also in us too.

I believe it is totally illogical to agree that Jesus is one with the Father and not believe He is God.

I believe it is totally illogical to state this and not believe He is God.

I agree but I believe most people manifest God sparingly and there are no buts about it except that Jesus is different in that God is always resident.

 

[moorea944]

I believe it is totally illogical to agree that Jesus is one with the Father and not believe He is God.

I believe it is totally illogical to state this and not believe He is God.

I agree but I believe most people manifest God sparingly and there are no buts about it except that Jesus is different in that God is always resident.

I believe it is totally illogical to agree that Jesus is one with the Father and not believe He is God.

Really? Doesnt make sense. That is because you really want the scriptures to tell us that Jesus is God. You wont find that anywhere.....

I believe it is totally illogical to state this and not believe He is God.

ok......

I agree but I believe most people manifest God sparingly and there are no buts about it except that Jesus is different in that God is always resident.

Well, Jesus was different. Though he was a man, born of a woman, same nature like us, God was his Father. He was the son of God and the son of Man. He had to be the son of God because no man left to himself could have conquered sin like he did. He overcame everything. God was working "through" His son.He manifested his Father's will and charator perfectly.

And he had to be the son of man because the messiah had to be like us. He had to be of the same nature to "overcome" sin. He was tempted, hurt, died, etc.. That's a God? No, that's a man. Bible even tells us that he was made like us, same nature. Could Jesus have sinned if he wanted to? Of course, but he chose not to. He did his Father's will not his. If Jesus was God, the atonement goes right out the window. Doesnt even make sense if he was God. God's cant be tempted or die, Jesus did.

 

[Xenosaga Dragonzord]

Jesus not God or son of God...........

Prophet jesus or isa are normal human,messenger and prophet.........and like other prophet, they have supernatural power

all prophet from adam,noah,moses,solomon,jesus to Muhammad.........all of them have supernatural power

nothing special

trinity is false idea created by human not from The Creator

God Is One.........He Is One

 

[Muffled]

Really? Doesnt make sense. That is because you really want the scriptures to tell us that Jesus is God. You wont find that anywhere.....



ok......


Well, Jesus was different. Though he was a man, born of a woman, same nature like us, God was his Father. He was the son of God and the son of Man. He had to be the son of God because no man left to himself could have conquered sin like he did. He overcame everything. God was working "through" His son.He manifested his Father's will and charator perfectly.

And he had to be the son of man because the messiah had to be like us. He had to be of the same nature to "overcome" sin. He was tempted, hurt, died, etc.. That's a God? No, that's a man. Bible even tells us that he was made like us, same nature. Could Jesus have sinned if he wanted to? Of course, but he chose not to. He did his Father's will not his. If Jesus was God, the atonement goes right out the window. Doesnt even make sense if he was God. God's cant be tempted or die, Jesus did.

I believe I will spell it out for you. If I say I have one apple is it an apple? If I say there is one God and it is the Father and the Son, is it not God?

I believe that I really want the truth and that Jesus speaks the truth because He is the truth.

I believe you are confused. You are mixing up essence with identity. Jesus contains the essence of God but the physical part is not part of the essence of God. However Jesus can be identified as God by that spiritual essence of God that is in Him.

I see no reason why this should be so.

I believe neither is the case.

 

[Isaiah Torres]

I'm interested in hearing thoughts about (1) Where this idea comes from and (2) If you agree with it and why/why not. I have heard it described like this: Because of the Trinity, Jesus is God, and all the things done in the Old Testament were therefore done by Jesus prior to his human incarnation. Thoughts?

Jesus Christ is God the Father in creation Jesus Christ was the Son in redemption and Jesus Christ is the Holy Ghost in the Church now..its not 3 but its just 1 and Jesus Christ is he..and I can prove it with bible

 

[Isaiah Torres]

For me Jesus is a demigod, his Dad was a God, and his mom was a human. He didn't exist before his birth.

that's a lie! Jesus said before Abraham was I AM.. and Abraham was before mary!

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God and the Word was God. Later the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. Jesus is the physical form that the Word took. Jesus existed in spirit form from the beginning of time and took on human form but was still God.

 

[Muffled]

Jesus Christ is God the Father in creation Jesus Christ was the Son in redemption and Jesus Christ is the Holy Ghost in the Church now..its not 3 but its just 1 and Jesus Christ is he..and I can prove it with bible

I believe this is erroneous. Although the Son and Father are one, they still have their distinctions so that the Son is not the Father, and Father is not the Son.

Again I believe, even though Jesus and the Father are in the Holy Ghost, they are not the same thing.

I don't believe you can.

 

[Muffled]

that's a lie! Jesus said before Abraham was I AM.. and Abraham was before mary!

I believe one must separate the physical identity from the spiritual identity. The physical identity of Jesus came into being when Jesus was born. The spiritual identity of Jesus has always been.

 

[moorea944]

I believe one must separate the physical identity from the spiritual identity. The physical identity of Jesus came into being when Jesus was born. The spiritual identity of Jesus has always been.

Not at all, scripture doesnt tell us that. Jesus was born was the first time he came into existence. He didnt pre-exist. He WAS here before time, but only in the mind of God, his Father. God even told Jeremiah that He knew him before he was born.

 

[Skwim]

that's a lie! Jesus said before Abraham was I AM.. and Abraham was before mary!

Bad form to accuse anyone here of lying.